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Old 04-01-2003, 05:23 PM   #1
superg
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Default STi a track car, not a rallycar

The STi does not appear to be easily adapted to optimal gravel/snow setup, as nothing smaller than 17" will clear the brakes. Impreza WRC gravel/snow configurations run 15" wheels over much smaller brakes than for pavement. No denying the pavement advantages of the STi, and the DCCD is nice, not will I see STi's blasting over snowy Colorado passes or the twisty gravel Oh My God Road on 18" wheels and all-seasons?

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Old 04-01-2003, 05:28 PM   #2
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ill be blasting through snow on 17" winters, you can bet your botton dollar on that

u gotta use the car to its full potential otherwise its a waste

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Old 04-01-2003, 07:16 PM   #3
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Yeah, even the new rear rotors are almost a full inch larger in diameter than the previous gen front rotors (12.3" vs. 11.4")

But I'm sure rally-sized brakes kits will be available shortly. Downgrading brakes... imagine that. You won't see these STIs running in Production classes (under CARS rules anyway).

-Jeff
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:05 PM   #4
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My point is that even 225/45-17 winters are too wide for good handling in snow. Right, imagine downgrading brakes to accomodate winter wheels! I am hoping maybe there is some 15 or 16" race wheel that can clear those suckers.

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Old 04-01-2003, 09:44 PM   #5
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I'm pretty sure a standard WRX set of brakes will fit. So far that's what I have planned, WRX rotors, calipers and rims for winter. I can't stand teh thought of running teh 17's at a rallyX.
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:47 PM   #6
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The brake mounting points are likely different than the WRX. All the stuff in that area is different. To put big brakes on a WRX, you need special mounting plates, I would guess that that is compensated for on the STI.
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Old 04-01-2003, 10:00 PM   #7
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I ran my RS in THE snow with THE Prodrive setup which is just about as stiff as THE Sti setup. I know, I know, 2 different cars..but if you were just talking about susp. setups alone tehn you can pretty much compare.

THE Prodrive setup was great on THE street and remarkably fast in THE heavy snow stuff too...not to stiff so that it would be uncontrolable or anything. Good all-around setup IMHO.

I plan to drive my Sti in THE thickest snow possible..mostly to just piss off THE Checvy truck rednecks....

Cheerfully,

Davis
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:05 PM   #8
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if theres snow on the ground...driving an suv would be the easiest option....we just had about a 1.5 feet of snow on the ground here in MD and no matter what....wrx with winter tires did no good....
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Old 04-02-2003, 02:46 AM   #9
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I think the 98-01 RS wheels clear the 4-pots...
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Old 04-02-2003, 02:57 AM   #10
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rs stock wheels do clear the wrx 4 pots easy.. have no clue on the brembro STI's...
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Old 04-02-2003, 09:12 AM   #11
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They do not. You have to downgrade the brakes which would not be legal for PGT. The car could only run in Open, therefore as it isn't Grp N homologated.

However if there was an SCCA tarmac rally you could run in PGT probably.

And of course there is the restrictor issue for at least open.

Glenn
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Old 04-02-2003, 06:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Future Rex 0wner

u gotta use the car to its full potential otherwise its a waste
obviously that doesn't apply to SUVs.
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Old 04-03-2003, 11:09 PM   #13
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WRX with snow tires is no good?

I know guys in town driving M3s with 18 and 17 wheels and they have no problem...and they have less ground clearance too.

I also have an Accord wagon, FWD, 16" snows and no problem. I can't imagine why a WRX with AWD would be worse unless you can't drive or you got poor tires.

I've driven Yoko GuardX600, Nokian NRW and Nokian Q, Bridgestone Blizzaks, all with good traction on snow and ice. I got 5 years out of the Yokos, amazing tire. Blizzaks lasted 2. NRWs 4 (but drove them year round). Currently waiting to see how long the Q's last, the next set I get will be the Nokian studded tires.

As far as the STi goes, I agree, it sucks that 16" are not easily mounted. However, a set of 17" Nokian studded tires, the best snow traction you can get short of chains, would be a lot of fun, I think.

Ultimately, the profile is what counts, and the diameter of the wheel isn't the only way to change the profile. The width of the wheel and tire counts too. There may be a way to get narrower wheels and tires on, and still maintain a reasonable offset and clearance. For example the steel space-saver 17" wheel and spare tires on M3 and Porsche are very narrow and still clear 13" brakes.
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Old 04-04-2003, 09:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Grinch
WRX with snow tires is no good?

I know guys in town driving M3s with 18 and 17 wheels and they have no problem...and they have less ground clearance too.

I also have an Accord wagon, FWD, 16" snows and no problem. I can't imagine why a WRX with AWD would be worse unless you can't drive or you got poor tires.

I've driven Yoko GuardX600, Nokian NRW and Nokian Q, Bridgestone Blizzaks, all with good traction on snow and ice. I got 5 years out of the Yokos, amazing tire. Blizzaks lasted 2. NRWs 4 (but drove them year round). Currently waiting to see how long the Q's last, the next set I get will be the Nokian studded tires.

As far as the STi goes, I agree, it sucks that 16" are not easily mounted. However, a set of 17" Nokian studded tires, the best snow traction you can get short of chains, would be a lot of fun, I think.

Ultimately, the profile is what counts, and the diameter of the wheel isn't the only way to change the profile. The width of the wheel and tire counts too. There may be a way to get narrower wheels and tires on, and still maintain a reasonable offset and clearance. For example the steel space-saver 17" wheel and spare tires on M3 and Porsche are very narrow and still clear 13" brakes.
That brings up an interesting point. Is the STi's spare a full size, and if so is it a steel wheel? That may just be the solution to my winter rim/tire combo.
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Old 04-04-2003, 09:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Grinch
As far as the STi goes, I agree, it sucks that 16" are not easily mounted. However, a set of 17" Nokian studded tires, the best snow traction you can get short of chains, would be a lot of fun, I think.
Good luck finding 17'' studded Nokian tires.
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Old 04-04-2003, 09:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by cboggess


That brings up an interesting point. Is the STi's spare a full size, and if so is it a steel wheel? That may just be the solution to my winter rim/tire combo.
Somewhere else in this forum (a while ago) it was mentioned that the spare will only fit on the rear hubs and will not clear the front brakes. So, you have to swap a rear tire to the front if the front gets a flat and put the donut on the rear.

I'm probably going to gut the trunk on my STi anyway and remove the spare and jack. If the RX-8 can get by with a can of "fix-a-flat" instead of a spare, I can too.

TRS
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Old 04-04-2003, 10:09 AM   #17
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Fix a flat is great stuff until you rub a curb and tear the sidewall.
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Old 04-04-2003, 10:30 AM   #18
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Really?

I don't plan on curbing my STi or any other car I drive bad enough to tear a sidewall (haven't yet in 15 years of driving).

TRS
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Old 04-04-2003, 10:46 AM   #19
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A WRX with snows on it is inSANE, and can go almost anywhere as long as you don't center it.

17-inch snows are fraught with complexity, but work quite well. Obviously, you want to get as narrow a snow tire as possible, but I ran stock sized snows on my WRX wagon, and it was an excellent snow vehicle, better than any SUV I encountered.

But the STi is intended to be a road car. I don't think any competitive events were taken into account when it was specced, as that would be rare for a manufacturer to do (Porsche RS, anyone?).

Kevin
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Old 04-04-2003, 06:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by wallbanger
if theres snow on the ground...driving an suv would be the easiest option....we just had about a 1.5 feet of snow on the ground here in MD and no matter what....wrx with winter tires did no good....
I've driven my WRX in 2 feet of snow with minimal drama...
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Old 04-05-2003, 03:58 AM   #21
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I don't think finding a slightly smaller wheel for winter will be as much a problem as some may think. After all, Raceline's RL-7, and a few other wheels, cleared the STi 4-pot setup (along with the 2-pot rears) with their 15-inch models. So, yes, the new STi brakes are significantly larger, but since rally wheels require smaller diamaters, there will be options.

Demand leads to supply.

-S2-
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Old 04-05-2003, 09:24 AM   #22
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Uhh, we just went through this, the real rally cars use 15" wheels for gravel and brakes that fit thereunder. They don't run brakes on gravel as big as the Brembos because they simply don't have room.

The options are: put smaller brakes on, or get 17" winter tires.

Even finding aftermarket 17" wheels that fit will be tough (see other thread on wheels that will fit).

Glenn
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Old 04-06-2003, 11:53 AM   #23
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i asked my local rally shop http://totalautosport.com about this. they are the distributor for SPEEDLINE wheels (it's not on their site... i don't know why!), and they have smaller fitments that will work with the brembo calipers.

maybe give them a shout if serious... their contact info is on their site.

Last edited by Benjamin Tang; 04-06-2003 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 04-06-2003, 12:02 PM   #24
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Are you sure by STi calipers they mean the Brembos?

They might be thinking old gen 4 pot calipers.

The Speedline 2118 15" will not clear the Brembos.

Glenn
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Old 04-06-2003, 12:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
Are you sure by STi calipers they mean the Brembos?

They might be thinking old gen 4 pot calipers.

The Speedline 2118 15" will not clear the Brembos.

Glenn
what had happened was i had heard locally that they had customers who were having their sti's brought directly from the dealership to be stripped down for rally use. so i went vultureing (is that a word? :P) for parts, thinking they would toss the brembo hardware, but i was told no. they had ordered rally wheels from speedline that would allow them to retain their brembos.... so that meant no parts for me

but i did score some other stuff though
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