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Old 04-07-2003, 01:02 PM   #1
Rev
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Default What does Subaru get for selling out to GM?

With all the talk in the News and Rumors section of a possible Saab WRX and the Chevy Forester in India it made me wonder why this is happening. In other words I can see what Chevy is getting for owning 30% (or whatever it is) of Subaru. Why did Subaru do it? What did they get out of it? Does anyone know?

The lines between American and Japanese cars are becomming very blured.
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Old 04-07-2003, 01:26 PM   #2
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money. If there is a saab WRX, I'm sure subaru would get a good chunck of the money made when they are sold. (personally I don't like the whole american companies owning/putting out other country cars)
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Old 04-07-2003, 01:30 PM   #3
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The American designers cannot for life in them creat a decent car, all they do it make heavy drag cars and ones that go in circles so they have to buy out businesses with creativity and then reproduce saying it's theirs.

As for the actual facts I have no idea. Soon every good car company will be swallowed up by one of the big ones.

I remember when I first found out that Lamborghini is owned by VW. I was in shock. I have nothing against VW apart from the jetta (which always seems to have one of those break lights not working).

-Matt
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Old 04-07-2003, 01:34 PM   #4
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GM seems to have the money to invest in "productive" models of cars (wherever they come from), but won't spend that money on R and D........and since they pay their workers too much (the ones in the US anyways), they have no choice other than to vend infierior products only to those guided by tradition (i.e good ole boys).....
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Old 04-07-2003, 03:31 PM   #5
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I was under the impression that GM bought ~20% of FHI, not Subaru. Just because a person buys a share of Phillip Morris, does not mean they own a piece of Kraft.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people whining about this. Get over it. We live in a global economy and the companies with money will invest it where they see good things.
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Old 04-07-2003, 03:47 PM   #6
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I heard that GM bought into Subaru or FHI for the AWD technology

I also heard that the Impreza was going to be the only performance car Subaru was going to produce.

Now we hear about all the different models coming in the future

some future models perhaps

AWD Vette

Subaru Grand Impreza AM

Chevy SVXtreme pickup

WOW what a future we may see
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Old 04-07-2003, 04:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by horatio102
I was under the impression that GM bought ~20% of FHI, not Subaru. Just because a person buys a share of Phillip Morris, does not mean they own a piece of Kraft.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people whining about this. Get over it. We live in a global economy and the companies with money will invest it where they see good things.
I wasn't whining, I was just curious how GM owning 20% of FHI (even better) translates into the possiblility of a Saab WRX. How does it give them the right to take a Forester and thow a Chevy badge on it. It just doesn't make sense to me so I was wondering how Suburu benifits.
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Old 04-07-2003, 05:13 PM   #8
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Go grab the May 2003 Motor Trend. There is a blurb about the possible Saab 9-1 which will be built off the Impreza platform for AWD. It wont be boxer powered (saab/GM engine). Possible 2007 model.

They even joke about not calling it a Saabaru
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Old 04-07-2003, 07:14 PM   #9
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Badges on cars are just that. I was shocked to see "FORD" on a Pathfinder in Columbia. I saw Many mixed up badges. When I asked the man I was staying with about that, he explained that that not all manufacturers actually like import cars everywhere. So if FORD thinks a Pathfinder would sell in Colombia but Nissan could care less, they buy them from nissan, put their badge on it, and sell them as their "own".

It's really not that uncommen here in the states either. Ever see a Honda Passport? it's, or at least used to be, an Isuzu Rodio. even has Isuzu written on the engine block (honda badge on the grill though). lol
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Old 04-07-2003, 10:19 PM   #10
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At one point Subaru was on the edge of bankruptcy. The cash from GM (and the Outback) pretty much saved the company.
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Old 04-08-2003, 09:35 AM   #11
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Where do you think all the Subaru R&D money is coming from? And how can they have a US only 2.5 Turbo? It's from the GM cash infusion. nOt only with the Stock purchase, but also funneling in about 1 billion in cash.


The Saab and AWD technologies is GM getting some return on their investment.

As far as 20%. Overall it may not be the majority, but I believe they are the second largest stock holder in FHI.
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Old 04-08-2003, 02:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Pittiful
I heard that GM bought into Subaru or FHI for the AWD technology

I also heard that the Impreza was going to be the only performance car Subaru was going to produce.

WOW what a future we may see
Um... then can you explain the Legacy Turbo coming to the US and the Forester Turbo and possible STi editions of both???

Another thing people....

In the world of car manufacturing, all car companies invest in each other.... and please get out of your heads that 20% shared stocks of FHI means GM owns Subaru
It's not like FHI doesn't know what they're doing... if they sell or make a good profit of providing one of their models (Forester in India) to GM in other countries; that's better than not being able to sell anything at all in India. I'm sure the people in India know it's a Subaru.

Oh.. and here's another... remember the Acura/Isuzu Trooper?

Or how about sharing the same body, platform, engine and just give it a different name: i.e. Vibe/Matrix?

It won't end...
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2.5RSMatt
The American designers cannot for life in them creat a decent car, all they do it make heavy drag cars and ones that go in circles so they have to buy out businesses with creativity and then reproduce saying it's theirs.-Matt
Please get off your high horse.

The designers want to create cool stuff just like we want to drive it. Did you ever see the concept version of the Alero? It was a really neat coupe and one of the coolest cars I have ever seen. ANd some of the new Caddy's are really nice...I can't afford them but I am probably not there target audience. The problem is with the bean counters after the design process. But hopefully Bob Lutz will help out GM.

Ford makes some very decent cars...the problem is we don't get most of them here. And believe it or not the Ford Mondeo (HUGE in Europe) was designed by an American but they chose to not want to complete with the Taurus. In retrospect not such a good move as the only interesting cars ford makes now are the Mustang and the Focus. They have nothing I can fit my family in that I would want to drive...and I am not getting an SUV. I hate the way those drive.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:28 PM   #14
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Alero was actually designed by Toyota.

And for that matter, the Mondeo is sold in America - it's just called the Contour here.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:56 PM   #15
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Economies of Scale....

That's what FHI gets.

The more cars they sell ,(regardless of the badge on the car) the lower their cost is per car. They can buy parts through GM at lower costs since GM buys so damn many parts.

-Nate
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:59 PM   #16
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to BigElm

I'm glad they are doing more performance on all models

But a few years ago i heard that the Impreza was going to be the only performance model and thats prolly what they were planning on doing

Plans change and its fine by me
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idjiit
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Alero was actually designed by Toyota.

Cheif designer was Kip Wasenko, one of the original designers on the Corvette.
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:29 PM   #18
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Hmm, I appear to stand corrected. I'm not sure where I heard the Toyota info.

Interestingly enough though, the Alero is just based on GM's P90 platform which is the same as the Malibu and Grand Am. I suppose someday Legacies will be a P-something with an AWD drivetrain and a Subaru shell. Whoo hoo.
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:41 PM   #19
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The new Grand AM and Malibu are on the Sigma chassis, along with the 9-3 and Opel's. Not too bad company. Looks like the Epsilon in a better choice though.

Interesting though that the 2004 GA (G6) will be AWD and either turbo or S/C with 250-300 HP.
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Old 04-08-2003, 05:05 PM   #20
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I stand corrected again. Thanks for the info...

In general, I'm happy that the trend is moving towards AWD/4WD capable platforms. I strongly feel that everyone can benefit from AWD cars, and especially those which live in places that actually have weather.

But ultimately, I'm not too happy about GM's involvement in Subaru. GM is good at making money, not so much at making good cars.

EDIT: Actually, I'm seeing conflicting information from yours... Sounds like Sigma is for their RWD platforms? Check out this site...

http://www.ssrrs.com/platforms.html
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Old 04-08-2003, 05:22 PM   #21
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The Epsilon is for the 2003/2004 models. I got those backwards. The Sigma is the RWD model.

I stand corrected
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Old 04-08-2003, 08:54 PM   #22
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You can blame GM and Ford for not trying hard enough, but the ultimate problem is that we continue to buy their substandard products. If we stop buying bland barges from them and buy the WRX and the Focus, stop carting around our one child families in Suburbans and Exploders - yes I said Exploder, they might cater to our needs. With the cooperation, perhaps GM will learn from the sucess of the lighter, more responsive vehicles and add some of them to it's own line up. Subaru could stand to gain from a furure shared platform as well.

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Old 04-08-2003, 11:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idjiit
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Alero was actually designed by Toyota.

And for that matter, the Mondeo is sold in America - it's just called the Contour here.
ok...everyone else proved you are wrong on statement 1.

As for statement 2 I have driven both the Mondeo and the Contour and its not even close. The ST version of the Mondeo was worlds ahead of the Contour SVT I drove...And that is really saying something as the Contour SVT was a very cool car. Why did it fail? Lack of decent marketing I guess. Add that to the complete lack of any identity here other than "Gee...its a small Taurus" and it was pretty well screwed. I would love to see the SVT devision wake up from its Lightning induced coma and make another GOOD sedan for Ford.

I firnly believe people in American are waking up and wanting to drive things other than SUV's for a myriad of reasons (gas prices) and I would hate to see the american companies get left completly out of this.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:38 AM   #24
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Moons ago, mid-90's Ford was looking at making an all-wheel drive or maybe it was rear-wheel drive supercharged sedan the size of the contour, that would have been in the same realm as the WRX is now. Wish they would have made it. It didn't look half bad. Only prototype I remember seeing was a pale yellow. Anyone else remember seeing it?
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:16 AM   #25
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An advantage for Subaru in the partnership w/ Saab and Chevrolet is to appeal to a wider audience. Subaru probably doesn't have as wide of coverage in India, and people may be more inclined to buy a Chevy over Subaru because they are more comfortable with the image the brand already has. Subaru thus gets part of the profits from a sale it wouldn't have had otherwise. This is like the Honda Passport being commonly perceived as better than the Isuzu even though the Isuzu was a bit cheaper and had a better warrantee. Honda just has a better reputation for quality, and people tend to have better opinions of the dealers as well. The majority of buyers aren't well informed and knowledgeable about cars like we are. This will happen with a Saab appealing to a bit more luxury image, and maybe Subaru will get assistance with turbo technology/application if needed. I still don't see how a tall I-4 will fit under a hood made for a low boxer.
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