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Old 04-07-2003, 06:51 PM   #1
g_dejesus
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Default Sti / Evo comparison

I got this from the SoCal DSM list. Thought it might make an interesting read...



-----Original Message-----
From: Salty
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 3:53 PM
To: SoCal_DSM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SoCal_DSM] Sti / Evo comparison

Last weekend I was lucky enough to drive the new Sti and the Evo
8
all weekend long. By the time I got back in my Colt, I was
ready to
get rid of the Colt for an Evo. I never thought I could say
"get rid
of the Colt". The magazine guys asked for my comments. I
thought
you guys might be interested in them too.

---------------------------------------------------

My first impression of the Evo was slightly
disappointing (however by the end of the weekend I
loved it). The power was fine and the steering and
handling felt phenomenal from the start. However,
being used to crappy Mitsu trannies, I was hoping for
the EVO tranny to feel much better with the triple and
double synchros. I did end up getting used to it and
thinking the tranny was a big improvement over the 98
Eclipse tranny I'm used to driving. The interior just
seemed like it belonged to a Mirage/Lancer. Nothing
special except the great seats and the pedals being
placed perfectly for heal/toe.

My first impressions of the STI were more positive but
slowly dwindled. Immediatly I noticed more power and
bottom end torque. I liked the short throw, lower
effort shifting. The initial brake feel was also more
positive for me with the Sti. I liked the driver
controlled center differential adjustments and I
noticed it definitly made a difference when doing a
U-turn in the dirt. One thing that really jumped out
at me with both cars was the noisy gear boxes. The
cars sound just like they sound while watching WRC
rally racing on T.V. The Sti tranny was even noisier
than the Evo but I thought it was cool. Heel and toe
was more difficult in the Sti.

However, after driving the Sti for the day, I got
tired of the 6 speed close ratio tranny. It was
almost too much work as I was constantly shifting.
The Sti was on the verge of being too much of a rally
car for every day driving. The most alarming thing
about the STI was the amount of detonation I audibly
heard under full load at 3500 rpm. I couldn't believe
that I was able to hear knock under full boost. I let
off and immediately pushed the intercooler sprayer
button thinking the intercooler was baked from the
engine while cruising around town. The audible knock
got better the next time I nailed it, but it still
concerns me as far as the reliability of the engine. I
heard detonation on 3 occasions during the day. Front
mounted intercoolers seem like a much better design
choice to me. I also didn't care for the hood scoop
rattling around on the freeway and you could also see
the rear wing vibrating in the rear view mirror on the
freeway.

The Evo grew on me. Its handling was extremely
impressive in the twisties. The tranny felt much
smoother after it warmed up and after I got more used
to the shifter. The brakes seem to require a lot of
effort at first, but they definitly stop the car when
you want it to. I finally found the intercooler
sprayer button on the Evo (it has a wierd symbol).
The spray is pretty impressive and it also cools the
radiator. The Evo IC spray has an auto feature so you
don't always have to push the button like the Sti.
Under the hood, the Evo is very impressive. The air
filter and airflow sensor are free flowing. The
intercooler plumbing is beautiful. The turbo spins
the wrong way so it might be very difficult to find
upgrades. This was probably a smart choice for Mitsu
and their warranty plans, although a freak like me
might take a second look at the Sti as a possible
purchase with more upgradeabililty. I liked the
functional hood vent on the evo however I wonder how
much the exhaust manifold likes rain water.

Overall - I preferred the Evo by a small margin. I
feel like the $30k price tag is pretty fair, although
I can't see paying any dealer markup for the car.
Especially the $20k some dealers were trying to get
when the car first came out.
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Old 04-07-2003, 07:26 PM   #2
ciper
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"hear knock under full boost"

I find that hard to believe. Even if he was able to hear it once, the learning ECU model that Subaru has used since forrever and a day would have prevented it. Also the baseline tuning should be far below any audible knocking.

Seems as if he tried to disquise himself as not being biased so that potential Subaru buyers would be swayed towards his vehicle of choice (he had a little too much mitsu info).

I never heard someone choose a 5 speed over a 6 speed because they shifted too often!!!

I smell a troll
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Old 04-07-2003, 07:28 PM   #3
Sparvy
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hmmmm....doesn't the upcoming STi also have an auto mode to the intercooler spray? Who is this guy..part of the press, why isn't he gagged, just kind of seems like he is making it up. With all of the internet racing it just sounds like an evo owner who is nervous about his recent purchase.
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Old 04-07-2003, 07:36 PM   #4
jaypride
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No auto mode for the STI. Sorry.

I have my doubts that anyone who actually got their hands on one of these is talking about it like that. ANyone who has the chance to spend an entire weedend with it is gagged til May 1st.
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Old 04-07-2003, 07:49 PM   #5
g_dejesus
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Default

Don't shoot the messenger. I just forwarded a post from the SoCal DSM list (hence the bias towards the EVO). Take that info however you want. And no, I don't have an EVO. It's the otherway around. I'm actually going from a Mitsu to a Suby...
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:01 PM   #6
AKGC8
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Complaining about shifting to often.

Surprised he didn't complain about the STI's power leading to him using the brakes more often.
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:01 PM   #7
Golfa
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thanks for the info, but seems a bit sketchy to me

the rattling of the hood scoop and vibrating wing that he described are worrying me...any thoughts?

-Eric
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:06 PM   #8
RafalW
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Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
I never heard someone choose a 5 speed over a 6 speed because they shifted too often!!!
Especially with "more power and bottom end torque".
Bottom end torque makes usually shifts less necessary especially if tranny is close geared.
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:08 PM   #9
SubEd
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Eby
Complaining about shifting to often.
]
Actually, this may be a valid point for many drivers. Depending in the ratios, when you add a turbo into the equation, this may be a "problem".
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:12 PM   #10
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Yea, well those drag racers that want longer gearing should get smart and just buy a Cobra.
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:28 PM   #11
zacek
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I totally agree on the knocking issue, there is no way a 2.5 litre will knock at low 3500rpms with 91 octane under a stock map. The purpose of the 2.5 litre engine was to avoid knocking and pass emissions with flying colors.
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Old 04-07-2003, 09:02 PM   #12
totoherbs
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Quote:
I never heard someone choose a 5 speed over a 6 speed because they shifted too often!!!

excatly.... and the sti 6 speed is one of the nicest trannys ive ever felt. Next to the gm 6 speed that is.
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Old 04-07-2003, 09:07 PM   #13
DanThom
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Yes...

...the pre-production STi knocks around 3500 rpm under throttle transitions. The production models likely won't have the problem... or quite as much of the incredible (for a 2.5 liter engine) low-end torque.
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Old 04-07-2003, 09:20 PM   #14
briank
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanThom
Yes...

...the pre-production STi knocks around 3500 rpm under throttle transitions. The production models likely won't have the problem... or quite as much of the incredible (for a 2.5 liter engine) low-end torque.
Was this discussed elsewhere? Dan, please tell us how you're familiar with the pre-production demo STi quirks

Not trying to be a dick, but a little digging is warranted!

-BrianK
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Old 04-07-2003, 10:10 PM   #15
Javabean2
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Even if this guy is totally on the up and up, I seriously doubt his main concern of audible knocking will be present on production cars. They simply can't sell a car and maintain a warranty with a problem like that.

That said, I like the various reports that the Sti and Evo are turning out to be very different cars. It makes it eaiser to select the one that fits better with your particular "groove."

As for me, I just have to ask - no AYC/ACD and they still can't fit more than 14 gallons into the tank? Aiy....that's really gonna turn off a lot of people with any inkling of practicality!
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Old 04-07-2003, 10:32 PM   #16
dsmperformance
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I saw that same exact review on another forum. I'm not really sure if you can deem that a credible review. An audible knock and detonation are two different things. I know I was reading about engine knock on this board in the warranty issues section that happened to a few WRX's. But I doubt the STi will have the same problem. Lets hope not!
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Old 04-07-2003, 10:37 PM   #17
ciper
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jaypride: You said no auto mode in the STI, are you referring to the DCCD? If so then you are incorrect. The DCCD is in auto mode until you change the controls.
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Old 04-07-2003, 10:50 PM   #18
Rattles
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Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
jaypride: You said no auto mode in the STI, are you referring to the DCCD? If so then you are incorrect. The DCCD is in auto mode until you change the controls.
i believe he was talking about the intercooler spray switch and not the DCCD
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:11 PM   #19
Janq
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-----Original Message-----
From: Salty
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 3:53 PM
To: SoCal_DSM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SoCal_DSM] Sti / Evo comparison

Last weekend I was lucky enough to drive the new Sti and the Evo 8 all weekend long. By the time I got back in my Colt, I was
ready to get rid of the Colt for an Evo. I never thought I could say
"get rid of the Colt". The magazine guys asked for my comments. I
thought you guys might be interested in them too.

---------------------------------------------------

Am I the only person that noticed that this guy drives a "Colt"?

The Plymouth 'Colt' was a POS grocery getter (made and also sold by Mitsubishi) that ended production when I was in college, 12 years ago!

This thing competed against the Subaru 3-Door, the Chevy 'Chevette', the Dodge Horizon & Omni, and the 'Original' Hyundai Excel 3-door.

Its taken him 12 years to find a vehicle good enough for him to "get rid of the Colt"?
Come on man, give me a break!

The guy complains about having to shift too much with a thoroughly modern racing 6 speed yet he doesn't mind at all riding around in a POS that Mitsubishi & Plymouth couldn't give away when it was new?!?

Those things had a 1.2L 4cyl with a 2bbl and a 4 speed with overdrive as I recall.

Somehow I just can't take this 'review' seriously.
Let me know when Car & Driver, Autoweek, Motorweek, Automobile or even Motor Trend does a review.
Somebody real & serious and who has some expereience with a modern and recent offering.

"By the time I got back in my Colt, I was ready to get rid of the Colt for an Evo."

- Janq
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:19 PM   #20
strangerq
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Janq
-----"By the time I got back in my Colt, I was ready to get rid of the Colt for an Evo."

- Janq
Decisions decisions.
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:38 PM   #21
Janq
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Quote:
Originally posted by strangerq


Decisions decisions.
Whats next, a guy driving an '82 Chevy 'Chevette' coupe with a 4 speed manual and factory 13" rims reviewing a '03 Corvette Z06?

He could complain about how the too low profle, wide & sticky Z06 tires really make the car 'hug the curves' resulting in him absorbing a lot of 'Gee Forces' when cornering making his tall glass of Yoohoo spill from the cupholder.

Sing along;
I knew a guy who drove a "Colt", and 'LAME-O' was his name-o.
L..A..M..E..O
L..A..M..E..O
L..A..M..E..O
And LAME-O was his name-o!

- Janq
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:46 PM   #22
g_dejesus
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You attack a guys credibility by the car he drives. Fyi, his colt is powered by a 4g63 engine, which is the same engine in the Evo, Eclipse, and Talons. Drop that engine in a car thats more than 500 lbs lighter than and Eclipse or Evo and well, you do the math...
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:55 PM   #23
Sakuraba
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Default Re: Sti / Evo comparison

Quote:
Originally posted by g_dejesus
I got this from the SoCal DSM list. Thought it might make an interesting read...

I liked the driver controlled center differential adjustments and I
noticed it definitly made a difference when doing a
U-turn in the dirt. One thing that really jumped out
at me with both cars was the noisy gear boxes. The
cars sound just like they sound while watching WRC
rally racing on T.V. The Sti tranny was even noisier
than the Evo but I thought it was cool. Heel and toe
was more difficult in the Sti.
seems very obvious that this person has never driven a car with adjustable DCCD. "...definately made a differnce in the dirt"? this person would be better quoting me initial D lines. DCCD does much more then that. That is the first sign that this was a "faked" review.
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Old 04-08-2003, 12:16 AM   #24
Janq
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Quote:
Originally posted by g_dejesus
You attack a guys credibility by the car he drives. Fyi, his colt is powered by a 4g63 engine, which is the same engine in the Evo, Eclipse, and Talons. Drop that engine in a car thats more than 500 lbs lighter than and Eclipse or Evo and well, you do the math...
Yeah so?
And my foot is powered by Nike.
That don't make me Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan, does it?

Keep in mind though that as you state this '4G63' is the patriach of the Talon to Eclipse to back to the future '03 US EVO powerplant, it is still in fact a 12-16 yr/old powerplant.

Not the engine that comes stock in todays EVO!

Were not talking a '60's 351C or a 427 or a '440 SixPack' here that in stock form straight out of its original and rusted motor mounts will command long dollars.

No were talking about a POS that Mitsu and Plymouth together couldn't give away no matter how hard they tried.
It was orignally designed as a fuel miser not a go-fast hot rod after we survived the fuel embargo and were in the midst of a deep recession. I'm talking 'el cheap-o' here dude.

Sorry Charlie, but let me put it this way....how can you complain about the nuanced performance of a 6 speed (which is still to this day a rareity) when you are day in and day out rolling around with 3 gears and an overdrive?

Yeah, okay so he could do this that and some other stuff to the engine but why, its still an unrecognizable no street cred POS Colt....with NOS, a blower, a supercharger or whatever else one can dream up. Woohoo!!!

Oh, and don't go getting all foamed at the mouth about the few 'sleeper' Caravan's out there from the mid-80's that folks have added all manner of gadgets so they can meet or beat any unsuspecting fill in the blank modern hot rod that comes down the turnpike.
Again, so what?!
You can put an Allison turbo-jet in an 'EZ' brand golf cart and its still nothing but a really expensive & fast golf cart.

Back to my original point, if a person is most familar with dining on Swanson 'Hungry Man' microwave dinners and 'Hot Pockets', you can't expect to take his review of your local 4 star restaurants risotto, porcini mushrooms or tiramisu with any kind of seriousness.

But hey, that's just my humble opinion...

- Janq 'The Ripper'
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Old 04-08-2003, 12:48 AM   #25
ItsStockOfficer
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The 89 Dodge colt and Mitsubishi Eclipse came factory with a Turbo 4G61...basically a non-intercooled 1.6 liter 4g63. 5 speed, 7k RPM redline....ran high 15's stock, not bad for a 1.6 FWD in 89. The 4G63 is a STRAGHT drop in, although you need a 4G63 ECU and MAS to get it to really run well.

As for it not being a real review...well, It is a real review, so you can take it for what its worth. The audible knocking problem was there, but as was stated, will probably not be a real problem on a production vehicle.

As for 4G63's, the best one is still the 1990 to 1992.5 6 Bolt engine. No, it doesn't have hollow camshafts, and Yes, it does bolt to a weaker tranny...but it has the best flowing head, intake manifold, is the most over built and makes power the easiest. I ran 12.6@111.99 on mine with 4 mods and unocal 110. A 4G63 powered colt is a fast and fun toy.
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