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Old 04-08-2003, 10:30 AM   #1
Broeli
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Default Shiv's thoughts on Sti vs. Evo

Pretty good comparison...can't wait until more can be said after the May 1 embargo.
Here is his (Shiv's) review posted on evolutionm.net:


"I'm anything but unbiased. So please don't put too much weight in my preference. After all, it is just that... a preference. And it's based upon my particular driving habits which, as some will testify, is quite enthusiastic by even enthusiast's standards. Also keep in mind that I already have two Subarus so I'm somewhat accustomed to how they drive and what to expect from them. While I'm not bored of them, they are becoming awfully familiar.

That said, my preference is the EVO. To me, it's a better fit. It does all the little, but very important, things very well. During threshold braking, the pedal is still high and firm enough to heel/toe blip without unwanted braking modulation. The steering wheel colunn doesn't get in the way of my knees (I'm 6' tall with long legs). The brake pedal is wide enough for left foot braking. The door panel doesn't rub the side of my knee when I use it to brace myself. The seats hold me well enough so I don't have to exert myself to keep upright. The shifter is quick and positive enough to double-clutch into first gear at 20mph, time after time again, without looking like a dork. The steering is super-quick but has enough feedback and self-centering traits to keep from over-correcting from a botched slide. At the limit, it's not an idiot-proof, dumbed-down car that is designed to keep uninterested drivers on the road, pointing in the right direction. It only plows when you enter a turn too fast or get on the gas too hard. It's super stable, yet totally placeable during trailing throttle/braking.

The STi does have it's strengths, of course. And they should be fairly obvious. Nothing short of a 911 turbo will compare to the way it absolutely launches out of tight turns. Short gearing and lots of immediate, lag-free torque will make you smile There's more but that will have to wait until May

But personally, I'm more comfortable with making more power than making something handle/ride better. While both involve juggling compromise, the latter is a lot more subjective and harder to quantify and even harder to appreciate without some driver committment.

But keep in mind that I'd be perfectly have happy owning either car. But given the current situation, I'm not at all unhappy having gone with the EVO. But it's still early and I have yet to get my tuning paws on the STi. Preferences may change. And then they may change back again. It never ends. Both are awesome cars. Great in their own environments. A fellow journalist who I trust prefered the STi for its muscle-car traits. Different strokes for different folks."
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Old 04-08-2003, 11:10 AM   #2
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may 1st is too far away...cant stand waiting anymore!
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Old 04-08-2003, 12:10 PM   #3
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That's OK, Shiv is entitled to his opinion, we just won't buy his stuff anymore

Only joking of course. I'm a little confused on when Shiv starts talking about "Subaru's becoming familiar to me."

Most comparo's I've heard have said the US Evo controls more like a WRX (a highly tuned onE of course) where it's sort of "point it where you want to go and smash the gas" whereas the new STi is more like a RWD that'll bite you in the ass and spin you around if you're less careful.

I'm interested in track times of the two cars. I want to know which one is faster around the corners, as I'm sure the STi will best the EVO in the straights. One great thing about the competition is that we will benifit; lower prices (less gouging at least) and more models with better options are surely on the way thanks to the two cars finally being here.
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Old 04-08-2003, 12:21 PM   #4
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The only hard part I have with track comparisons are Drivers....
somebody else might drive one better than the other...

Makinen drove the EVO5-6 like a mad man... but nothing on the EVO7....but had he drivin the 7 for a year it might have changed...
(make any sense?)

just using the EVO for reference...

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Old 04-08-2003, 12:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by hoodwho
The only hard part I have with track comparisons are Drivers....
somebody else might drive one better than the other...

Makinen drove the EVO5-6 like a mad man... but nothing on the EVO7....but had he drivin the 7 for a year it might have changed...
(make any sense?)

just using the EVO for reference...

Shiv never mentioned which one was faster (lap times), just which one he preferred.

I will wait for track times from drivers before I say which one is "faster." I also plan to test drive both before buying either.
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Old 04-08-2003, 12:45 PM   #6
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Shiv has to play kind of a cat and mouse game right now. This isnt an attack on Shiv by any means. But let's face it he is a business man and he wants to make money off of both of us (the sti owners and the evo owners) But right now his biggest market is the evo because they are out and sti's are still at least 2 to 3 months away before people start to buy mods.

I don't think you will ever hear shiv say one is clearly better than the other even if one was. Unless he had a way to make each closer. Like I said this is not an attack on Shiv. Just common business since.
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Here is his (Shiv's) review posted on evolutionm.net:
that should tell you a lot.

although, does it really matter what Shiv thinks? Would that really sway a buyer's decision? Personally I like thinking for myself.
Shiv makes a good point about the little things of the car, which we have to make ourselves individually.
It does come as a surprise that he insinuates that the EVO handles better.
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
It does come as a surprise that he insinuates that the EVO handles better.
Every thing I have ever read/seen about the STi vs EVO (pretty much any version of either) has said that the EVO handles better. Mitsubishi is one of the world leaders in suspenson technology.
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Old 04-08-2003, 08:10 PM   #9
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Can you really "lose" with either car? Neither car is a bad choice, it just comes down to personal preference and where your priorities lie. I highly doubt that, with the exception of the 1/4 mile, very few people will be able to extract that "something extra" either car offers. Sadly, I am willing to bet most of these cars will not see any true competitive events. I really hope no one is running at 10/10's on the street to notice the extra lateral G one car may offer over the other. If they are, be prepared for higher insurance rates

Mike
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Old 04-08-2003, 10:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Every thing I have ever read/seen about the STi vs EVO (pretty much any version of either) has said that the EVO handles better. Mitsubishi is one of the world leaders in suspenson technology.
You have obviously never had the pleasure of riding around in an Evo 7 GT-A. Make sure to bring lots of barf bags if you do...

I've heard lots of people say that the Evo's handling feels better, I've not yet seen any reports outside of Japan with numbers that say it actually performs better. I'm not surprised at all on the feel-better factor - a stiffer suspension setup and faster rack combined with slightly larger tyres will have it's impact. I also think that while that will make some people happy, there will be at least as many others that will be happier with the on-the-road feel of the STi in non-track conditions.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma
I've heard lots of people say that the Evo's handling feels better, I've not yet seen any reports outside of Japan with numbers that say it actually performs better.
Paul... does Best Motoring videos count?? From what I've seen..
EVOs has always been faster than STi since EVO6....if that means
anything... (Yes, I do realize that USDM EVO and STi are very
different from JDM ones.. )

Also.. whats the difference in suspension design of the two??
I know that STi uses inverted strut in 4 corners.. while EVO use
that for the front and multi-link for the rear... any advantage/
disadvantage of the two?

Thanks,
(Sorry.. too much questions.. )
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:49 AM   #12
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In the latest edition of best motoring, the new STI beat the EVO VIII. That's JDM too, so our STI will be better than those in the video, and our EVO worse. As I've always said though, between cars that perform so closely to eachother, the better driver will usually win.

The STI may not have quite as stiff of suspension as the EVO, but does it really matter if it's lapping nearly as fast as it, or in this case faster. It'll just make for a better car in the real world where most of us will do the majority of our driving. That's why I laugh when the EVO guys trash the STI for it's suspension. Most of them will never use the car on a track and to it's full potential where their stiff suspension will really make any difference. The STI's suspension will be more comfortable, and handle better on the rough/potholed streets that most of us encounter. The STI's power and low end torque will also make a huge difference in real world driving. Plus you've got DCCD to play with, can we say power on oversteer? Sounds like more fun if you ask me, and that's really what it comes down to. Which car will be the most fun to you.
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Old 04-09-2003, 06:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eby
In the latest edition of best motoring, the new STI beat the EVO VIII. That's JDM too, so our STI will be better than those in the video, and our EVO worse. As I've always said though, between cars that perform so closely to eachother, the better driver will usually win.

The STI may not have quite as stiff of suspension as the EVO, but does it really matter if it's lapping nearly as fast as it, or in this case faster. It'll just make for a better car in the real world where most of us will do the majority of our driving. That's why I laugh when the EVO guys trash the STI for it's suspension. Most of them will never use the car on a track and to it's full potential where their stiff suspension will really make any difference. The STI's suspension will be more comfortable, and handle better on the rough/potholed streets that most of us encounter. The STI's power and low end torque will also make a huge difference in real world driving. Plus you've got DCCD to play with, can we say power on oversteer? Sounds like more fun if you ask me, and that's really what it comes down to. Which car will be the most fun to you.
Which video do you have? The newest one I got the EVO8 GSR
lead STi the entire 3 laps.. or do you mean the EVO7 race back
in Feb issue?
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:37 AM   #14
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I don't have it. Saw somebody post that the Spec C started in the back and ended up passing everyone in the pack including VIII RS. Then the time attack times were faster for the STI too. They said it was the VIII in the race, didn't see it myself.
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:31 AM   #15
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As long as the STi is tolerable as a daily driver, I will be happy. Maybe we could weasel that info out of Shiv? Or Paul?
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Old 04-09-2003, 12:25 PM   #16
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Give me a 3.5l turbo motor and either and you will make my day.....
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Old 04-09-2003, 12:44 PM   #17
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Default EVO VIII FQ 300 review.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk

Although they call it the EVO IIIV.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eby
I don't have it. Saw somebody post that the Spec C started in the back and ended up passing everyone in the pack including VIII RS. Then the time attack times were faster for the STI too. They said it was the VIII in the race, didn't see it myself.
I have the video...

I believe the starting from the first corner:
-----------------------------------------
EVO8 GSR
New STi
EVO8 RS 5 speed
EVO8 RS 6 speed
New STi Spec C

End of the race:
-----------------------------------------
EVO8 GSR
<smaller but increasing gap>
New STi
<huge huge gap>
New STi Spec C
EVO8 RS 5 speed
EVO8 RS 6 speed


I dont know if you can say that STi is faster.... since STi was
never able to pass the EVO8 GSR in the front... In fact, the gap
between EVO8 GSR and STi was increasing toward the end
of the race.... basically, EVO8 seem to have less understeer
in the corners and EVO8 and STi are pretty much the same
in the straight line... (my initial impression, have to see it again)
Then again... STi spec C was passing both RS models...

So can you say STi is faster?? I dont think so.... Personally I
discard this video as any indication which car is faster...
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:48 PM   #19
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The video from best motoring showing the faster spec c sti compares it with the evo 7.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...t=spec+c+video

In this video it is obvious that for whatever reason the spec c is faster than all the other cars. It's starts at the back, and ends up way out in front, so is obviously significantly faster or is being driven much better. Don't know how you can "discard" it. Makes you sound like the Information Minister from Iraq.

Anway do yo have link to the video you're referring to?
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:52 PM   #20
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i am the one that posted the lap times. The Evo cars were Vii not viii but the viii here also has the ayc/ayd so not a good comparison to the us evo at all.

The US sti does have the new spec c geometry along with the dccd that some of these cars had. But not the 2.5 liter that we will be getting.
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by strangerq
The video from best motoring showing the faster spec c sti compares it with the evo 7.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...t=spec+c+video

In this video it is obvious that for whatever reason the spec c is faster than all the other cars. It's starts at the back, and ends up way out in front, so is obviously significantly faster or is being driven much better. Don't know how you can "discard" it. Makes you sound like the Information Minister from Iraq.

Anway do yo have link to the video you're referring to?

Yes, i know about that video... after all, I provided the actual
VCD back in february...
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=308486

Anyways... I was talking about the newest April's VCD in my
previous post...
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by JT-KGY



Yes, i know about that video... after all, I provided the actual
VCD back in february...
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=308486

Anyways... I was talking about the newest April's VCD in my
previous post...
Gotcha. So where's the video?
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eby
In the latest edition of best motoring, the new STI beat the EVO VIII. That's JDM too, so our STI will be better than those in the video, and our EVO worse. As I've always said though, between cars that perform so closely to eachother, the better driver will usually win.

The STI may not have quite as stiff of suspension as the EVO, but does it really matter if it's lapping nearly as fast as it, or in this case faster. It'll just make for a better car in the real world where most of us will do the majority of our driving. That's why I laugh when the EVO guys trash the STI for it's suspension. Most of them will never use the car on a track and to it's full potential where their stiff suspension will really make any difference. The STI's suspension will be more comfortable, and handle better on the rough/potholed streets that most of us encounter. The STI's power and low end torque will also make a huge difference in real world driving. Plus you've got DCCD to play with, can we say power on oversteer? Sounds like more fun if you ask me, and that's really what it comes down to. Which car will be the most
fun to you.
Hi Eby. I agree with most of all your statements.

I don't see however the Evo guys trashing the STi. I am a regular at evolutionm.net, as I am about the get my Evo. I have not seen it there. It seems to me, that the people here has a lot more bad thinks to say about the Evo. As for me, I would love to have to higher torque on low rpms, as well as the straight line acceleration. However, I am sold on the Evo as it felt very stiff, that is the quality I have been looking in a car.

We are very fortunate we are getting both cars.

Enjoy
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fortal


Hi Eby. I agree with most of all your statements.

I don't see however the Evo guys trashing the STi. I am a regular at evolutionm.net, as I am about the get my Evo. I have not seen it there.
look more carefully..
--bobby
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by strangerq


Gotcha. So where's the video?
Talking to my friend right now that might be able to sell/give
me some space to upload...

But the video weren't that good... a lot of talking about
Super AYC and not a lot of races (not STi anyways).... and
at the end... the result of the race were a bit inconclusive...
(in term of which is faster...)
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