Shiv's thoughts on Sti vs. Evo

[Corn-Picker]

Originally posted by HFTuRbo


Perhaps the fastest in a rally where there is no chance of worrying about tire life. It's also good to know you can do this and not plow yourself with understreer off of the road and into a ditch.
It is a display of control. You can do this sorta thing in a WRX at a stop, make a 45 degree angle right with the power up. The car drifts under power, but wherever pointed once turned it goes in that direction. These cars ROCK.

I saw a web interview with Solberg where someone asked him about whether drifting or taking a corner normally was faster. Solberg said taking a corner conventionally is faster, but you have to know the corner well to do that.

They drift in a rally because they don't know exactly what the turn looks like, they just know if it's right/left and about how sharp the corner is. Solberg was saying atacking a corner by drifting allows you to adjusts the car more mid-turn.

In a road course there may only be 12 turns, and because you'll be doing a bunch of laps, you have the turns memorized. I guess that's the short answer as to why we don't see drifting when pros are on road courses.

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[metoo]

Have you ever seen a pro rally car take a 180 degree corner that has a long straight before and after it. Get in a rally car and follow one of these guys around that corner conventionally. By the time you straighten out and get back on power for the second straight all the dust will have settled in front of you and there will be no car to be seen.

All of the turns are not blind. I've seen several rallys with clear s-turns and such ahead and they float the rear all the time. At the speed they are going, a conventional method of taking those dirt curves will just cause understeer. These guys are trying to win the race, not show off. It is simply the fastest way around the track.

Now there are many times when drifting is just done for fun or show, especially on pavement. When you have a car that delivers all for it's power up top, drifting could be better for a given turn where a more torqy car can take it just as fast conventionally. It all depends on the power and traction you have available and the characteristics of the turn/corner.

[RafalW]

Originally posted by metoo
Have you ever seen a pro rally car take a 180 degree corner that has a long straight before and after it.

Here you go:
Panizzi in Action

Get in a rally car and follow one of these guys around that corner conventionally. By the time you straighten out and get back on power for the second straight all the dust will have settled in front of you and there will be no car to be seen.

So do you mean gravel? Cause on tarmac it's definately not true. Gilles is the best on tarmac.

[Corn-Picker]

Originally posted by metoo
These guys are trying to win the race, not show off. It is simply the fastest way around the track.

Of you're right, Solberg was lying/didn't know what the hell he was talking about in the web interview when he said conventionally taking a corner is faster than drifitng.

[strangerq]

Originally posted by Corn-Picker


Of you're right, Solberg was lying/didn't know what the hell he was talking about in the web interview when he said conventionally taking a corner is faster than drifitng.

Maybe dirt vs. tarmac is a part of the the issue here.

Anyway, no need to have a hissy over it.

[Jewbaru]

Originally posted by metoo
Now there are many times when drifting is just done for fun or show, especially on pavement. When you have a car that delivers all for it's power up top, drifting could be better for a given turn where a more torqy car can take it just as fast conventionally. It all depends on the power and traction you have available and the characteristics of the turn/corner.

Uhh, drifting is the slowest way around the track (on tarmac) PERIOD. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

[97itr153]

Originally posted by Jewbaru


Uhh, drifting is the slowest way around the track (on tarmac) PERIOD. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Assuming that "drifting" includes any act of sliding the rear-end of the car sideways, your statement HAS an exception.

On really tight, slow tarmac turns, it is necessary to "drift" the car by either handbrake, trail-braking, etc. In this particular case, the time saved from getting the car pointed in the right direction more than compensates for the loss of rear traction.

Here is why:
The car's limiting factor on a really tight turn is the level of grip generated by the front tires (not the rear). In AutoX for example, drivers will often use a smaller tire on the rear than on the front. Why? because it is actually beneficial to lose rear-end grip on the real tight corners. On my type-r for example, the fastest AutoX setup is 225/45 front and 205/50 rear, even though the rear wheels can accomodate 225/45.

[JT-KGY]

Originally posted by 97itr153


Assuming that "drifting" includes any act of sliding the rear-end of the car sideways, your statement HAS an exception.

.....

Thank you 97itr153... I was wondering/thinking the same thing....

[Jewbaru]

I should have been more specific, as you are correct. Most cars do drift slightly around the corner when taking tight bends (I also autocross), but not tail happy drifts like we see when watching WRC.

The fastest way around a track is actually a slight crab, maybe 5 degree slip angle max, tail happy drifts are not, which was what I was referring too.

[EDIT] If my memory is correct, a drift is when all four tires are "sliding".

[Kostamojen]

I would also like to mention that even on road courses a skilled driver does get the rear end out a tad. Its not very noticable while watching from the outside like a full-fledged sideways drift is, but the cars are generally not going perfectly straight
Each car is different however, and a car like the STI with DCCD will drive very differently from a standard 5MT AWD Impreza, with the capacity of hitting much higher speeds in sweeping corners by transfering more power to the rear wheels, as well as taking even sharper entry apex lines. Its hard to explain I guess until you have done it (no I havent done it, but I know enough about whats going on to understand it)