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Old 04-08-2003, 02:38 PM   #1
BenHayat
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Default STi in unfaire position, I think...

When EVO came out, there was nothing to compare EVO to and it looked great on it's own. Now that STi is coming out, it seems like it's being compared right of the bat to an already praised EVO, without getting a fresh and solo review.

I think that sucks and is unfair to STi. You guys should look at STi "As It Is" and either take it or leave it. So far every review I've seen, from start, there is a big disappointing "BUT" in there about STi

Just my 2 cents.

..Ben
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Old 04-08-2003, 02:53 PM   #2
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I think there is also a lot of misinformation out there. Some so-called reviews talking about detonation etc. EVO drivers want really bad to prove the sti is not all that despite all its gagetry. Sti owners want to prove that the evo is better because of its bigger engine and gagetry. The fact of the matter is that because these two cars drive so completely differently its going to divide the population. I think where the line is going to be drawn is later down the road after we see which car is more reliable.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:37 PM   #3
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the evo got compared to the WRX in all of it's reviews...it's human nature to find something similar that people are already familiar with and compare it to that.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch
the evo got compared to the WRX in all of it's reviews...it's human nature to find something similar that people are already familiar with and compare it to that.
Yes and the EVo and WRX are not in the same league really. Would be like comparing the sti to the wrx. They don't even drive the same.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:46 PM   #5
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The mere fact that the EVO is a horrifically ugly vehicle automatically makes me not even compare the STi to it.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:49 PM   #6
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Most people don't consider the STI a looker either. Sure I think the STI looks better than the EVO, but it's subjective. They're both ugly compared to most sports cars out there.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
there is a big disappointing "BUT" in there
Yeah... it seems like everybody has a big disappointing butt these days.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:50 PM   #8
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Yeah, that STI is really beautiful.......not
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:01 PM   #9
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The 04 design looks great, in my oh-so-humble-opinion. The 02/03 took some getting use to that kinda grows on you over time. The EVO is just plain hideous. Ugly front and ugly rear.
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by OneLargeToe
The 04 design looks great, in my oh-so-humble-opinion. The 02/03 took some getting use to that kinda grows on you over time. The EVO is just plain hideous. Ugly front and ugly rear.
I think the hood scoop is too big. I think the the wrc car with the front mount ic and the air vents looks terrific.

I don't like the 4 eyed bugeyed look of the older rex, but i actually thought the sti looked pretty good, though I think the rear lights needed to be rounded (think skyline gtr) in order to match the front.

I like the look of the present evo 8 a little better than the present sti...slightly less boy racer, though I think the nose is now busy looking. The evo 7 looked better and the 4 - 6 even better. The car is evolving into uglyness.

On the reviews, you have to bear in mind, people who just bought the evo have a certain amount of self justifying to do.

I'm not dissuaded from my preference for the STI in the least.

Not having driven either car of course....my impression of the reviews is.... "I'll take the torquey 2.5, the six speed and the adjustable differentials of the STI thank you", I'll leave you to keep convincing yourself that the EVo has 'subjectively better handling'....as I drive past you.
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:18 PM   #11
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HIDEOUS
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eby
Most people don't consider the STI a looker either. Sure I think the STI looks better than the EVO, but it's subjective. They're both ugly compared to most sports cars out there.
agreed. while i do not mind the way the STi looks, it is truly a matter of not judging a book by its cover and knowing that the cars insides are what make it beautiful.
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:31 PM   #13
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Comparing the STi and EVO is fair! What flavor crack are you guys smoking?

4 cyl turbo, AWD, 3300lbs sedans derived from WRC cars within a 10% price difference.

I can tell you now, most of the reviews that are going to come out that involve both cars with praise both cars and contain a BUT about one of them. Either that or they’ll declare no winner.

Neither car will likely dominate in all areas a performance car can be measured. EVO will win some, STi will win others. They are very similar cars, and will drive more similar to each other than probably 99.5% of other cars other there. Picking one will just be a matter of choosing the one that handles the way you like it, just a little better. Or picking the one that the seats fit you just right.

Be happy that you now get to pick a car that so specifically meets what you want in a performance car!

-BrianK
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Old 04-08-2003, 05:05 PM   #14
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Let's all be realistic. Take a look back in time to the early to mid 90's. Four cars; Toyota Supra tt, Mazda RX7tt, Nissan 300ztt, and the Mitsu 3000gt VR-4tt. All Japanese super cars, all highly powerful with the agiligity mostly reserved for exotic sports cars.
But which one is the BEST? Hmmm, now that is not an easy question to answer. And what answers you do get is purely subjective. Personally, I think the 300zxtt is the best in the bunch. But I am willing to bet a lot of people disagree with me. What is the conclusion, you might ask. Well, it is really quite simple, There is no "Best" there is only the one you like best. I look forward to streets filled with Evo's and STi's and WRX's (sorry but the base lancer has no place in my world). Long have been the days with out such cars of splender. Bright is the future, Long live the STI. Death to EVO's.
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Old 04-08-2003, 05:11 PM   #15
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It seems like the STi drives very differently from the EVO, if you listen to those who have driven it. From the thread that keeps quoting Shiv, it really sounds like the DCCD takes some getting used to. I think that any longer term comparisons will even out with less EVO bias. Seems like the EVO is a great point and shoot car while the STi is a little more involved. Not a bad thing at all, but, like I say, it'll take some getting used to before the press steps up for the STi.
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Old 04-08-2003, 05:17 PM   #16
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What are you smoking briank? 10% difference in price? If I recall the price for an evo is $30,495, (small wing isn't even offered). And if the rumors are correct, (I believe they are), the STi will be $30,995. Granted I there is a $525 destination charge which I dont know if it is factored into the evo price or not. Either way we are looking at around a $1,000 price difference. I find that to be a little over 3%. Its not even valid to compare prices with these percentages.
.
Essentially they are the same price, and the fact that for the same price I can get 6spd/DCCD/.5L more displacement/AVCS/ bigger fuel tank/nicer interior/etc.

I sat in an evo and wasn't impressed by the almighty Recaros, I also sat in the STI at an auto show and the seats fit me much better. Another thing I noticed is how cheap the interior felt, it was exactly the same as the base model lancer a few feet away. The cluster is terribly ugly, anyway enough EVO bashing. Don't get me wrong buy what you want, I'm just explaining my opinions, and how I made my decision to buy the STI.
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Old 04-08-2003, 06:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by T-WRX Racer
Let's all be realistic. Take a look back in time to the early to mid 90's. Four cars; Toyota Supra tt, Mazda RX7tt, Nissan 300ztt, and the Mitsu 3000gt VR-4tt. All Japanese super cars, all highly powerful with the agiligity mostly reserved for exotic sports cars.
But which one is the BEST? Hmmm, now that is not an easy question to answer. And what answers you do get is purely subjective. Personally, I think the 300zxtt is the best in the bunch. But I am willing to bet a lot of people disagree with me. What is the conclusion, you might ask. Well, it is really quite simple, There is no "Best" there is only the one you like best. I look forward to streets filled with Evo's and STi's and WRX's (sorry but the base lancer has no place in my world). Long have been the days with out such cars of splender. Bright is the future, Long live the STI. Death to EVO's.
Good example from early 90s!

Having driven all four, I would rate them as follows.
RX-7 TT= 8.5
300zx TT= 7.5
Supra TT= 7.0
C4 Vette = 6.5
3000gt VR4= 6.0
The Mazda involves the driver extensively, whereas driving the 3000GT is like talking to a brick wall.

I haven't driven an EVO yet, but I expect it to be light-years ahead of the VR4 in terms of subjective handling characteristics. I have an STi on order but I will NOT dismiss the EVO without driving it first.
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Old 04-08-2003, 06:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by T-WRX Racer
Let's all be realistic. Take a look back in time to the early to mid 90's. Four cars; Toyota Supra tt, Mazda RX7tt, Nissan 300ztt, and the Mitsu 3000gt VR-4tt. All Japanese super cars, all highly powerful with the agiligity mostly reserved for exotic sports cars.
But which one is the BEST? Hmmm, now that is not an easy question to answer. And what answers you do get is purely subjective. Personally, I think the 300zxtt is the best in the bunch. But I am willing to bet a lot of people disagree with me. What is the conclusion, you might ask. Well, it is really quite simple, There is no "Best" there is only the one you like best. I look forward to streets filled with Evo's and STi's and WRX's (sorry but the base lancer has no place in my world). Long have been the days with out such cars of splender. Bright is the future, Long live the STI. Death to EVO's.
Of your choices, for pure straight line & stock perf I'd pick the Supra TT...thats a no brainer.
For ride, comfort and daily driveability the 300Z TT is the winner by a hair ahead of the RX7TT.
For inclement weather use (rain) I'm in the VR-4TT.

But if given only one choice to meet every need in stock form I'd have to go with the 300Z TT.
To live with she's easiest on the pocket during the week and hot fun on Saturday and cleans up well enough for Sunday.

BTW, be careful...there are several haters lurking about that are really EVO lovers.
Check out the "Sti / Evo comparison " thread and see what happened when I said the Plymouth Colt was a "POS", which it is!

Anyway, being totally objective here the EVO is a nice ride but for being $4000 more than the cost of a regular '04 WRX I can spend half that differential and have a faster/quicker/stonger/more reliable vehicle than the EVO.
And have money left over for a slightly used bike or a set of bling rims & race tires.

While the STi pricing has not yet been released, based on the superior technology already known to come standard _and_ outside of it costing $33K or more MSRP it will be a better 'value' than the EVO.

The best way an EVO can now become price/value competitive to the STi is for Mitsu to ship next years model (lets call it the 'EVO Sport') with AYC & ADC and bump the cost to $32K while dropping the price on a regular EVO by $2K to $27,995 (plus throw in the rear wing standard!).
That would leave a regular EVO as direct & superior competition to a regular WRX and the imaginary 'EVO Sport' with AYC & ADC directly competitve to the STi at $2k below the commonly predicted MSRP.

Another option of course is for Subaru to go belly up.
But thats a pipe dream for Mitsu and US EVO owners.

The bottom line, ride, seat comfort and hood scoop size are all subjective. Performance to 60, 1/4 mile, skid pad numbers, known marque reliability and cost per/horsepower are not subjective.
Currently, Mitus has the advantage and is 'King of The Hill' but the title will be short lived as Subaru is coming....fast n' furious.

- Janq
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Old 04-08-2003, 07:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by 97itr153

I have an STi on order but I will NOT dismiss the EVO without driving it first.
My position exactly. That said, I will wait to drive them as close to back-to-back as possible to get a real, and unbiased feel for the differences.

As for the subject of this post, Mitsu put themselves at a temporary advantage by getting the Evo here first. Nothing fair or unfair about it. People will, of course, rave about what they can get their hands on. I would also dare to say that Subaru has lost a few sales in the process. OTOH, they will sell every STi they can make (given a competitive price point) because the enthusiasts here are more than ready to take advantage of a price/performance war between two undoubtedly great cars.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:15 PM   #20
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Another thing I do not like about the Evo is that the engine is transversely mounted like a front wheel drive. When the engine is mounted in this mannor the awd system has to be laid out accordingly. This is the same way the VR-4 is laid out. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I have 1st hand experiance with this lay out on the VR-4. AND IT STINKS The tranny is almost like (please note that I said almost) a front wheel drive rigged to be awd. Mitsu, (in my book) doesn't make a good strong tranny, on the evo's I expect synchro's to be grinding and clutches to be burning.
Now lets look at Subie's layout. A nice design indeed. Standard mount engine with the awd tranny laid out in traditional form. For anyone planning on ever working on their cars their self, do yourself a favor and go with the STi.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
I think that sucks and is unfair to STi.
Boo hoo hoo. Waaaaah waaaah!

Unfair? UNFAIR?

Why don't you crawl off in a corner somewhere and give yourself a hug. We're all winners here.

--scott
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by StealthWagon
What are you smoking briank? 10% difference in price? If I recall the price for an evo is $30,495, (small wing isn't even offered). And if the rumors are correct, (I believe they are), the STi will be $30,995. Granted I there is a $525 destination charge which I dont know if it is factored into the evo price or not. Either way we are looking at around a $1,000 price difference. I find that to be a little over 3%. Its not even valid to compare prices with these percentages.
I'm smoking some good stuff, but apparently what you are smoking inhibits your ability to read!

If you read my post again, I said WITHIN 10%.

Anyway, you're only helping me make my point by saying they'll be even closer in price. I don't know why you felt the need for a snappy reply. They are very comparable cars but each has a slightly different flavor.

-BrianK
Back to smoking my stuff....
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Old 04-10-2003, 01:07 AM   #23
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These two cars have done many competitions, and have been tested over and over again.... some STi win and some EVO wins..there isn't a clear cut winner...
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Old 04-10-2003, 05:24 AM   #24
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Default Eternal battle

I wouldn't say unfair; been waiting years for the Sti to touch U.S soil. I actually got the RS because I wanted the 2.5 with thoughts of serious modifications(getting as close to the 22b/Sti). Even more so after asking/reading about it coming here several years ago(nil).

Anyway, most drivers who know what they want and can afford will buy their choice(STI for me ). I say, enjoy your rides
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