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Old 04-08-2003, 07:36 PM   #1
StepinRazor
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Member#: 21742
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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2008 Legacy GT
2002 WRX Bugeye!

Default UTEC tuning help in So Cal?

Anyone who lives in So Cal willing to give a fellow subaru owner some help tuning my UTEC?

I think I'm over my head with this tuning stuff, I basically have a stock WRX with the stage 1 map and have turned the timing down by 3 all across the timing map (for 91 octane gas!). My ABC is turned up about 3 turns and I see 14.5~15.0 psi in 4th gear peak.

I get knock or CELs punching the throttle at low RPM in 4th and 5th gear. Otherwise its working well.

Does someone want to drive around with me who knows about timing, AFR, and all that to help me get my car running smoothly?

- John
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:28 PM   #2
bobsterswrx
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Sounds like you are almost there. I'm in AZ but can give you some help here. Do you get knock in a full 3rd gear pull from 3,000-7,000 rpm? If not then you are probably getting knock where the turbo is building boost. In my experience with 91 oct you may have to pull another degree of timing or two just in front of (250 rpm) and through the point of knock. Start with a 3rd gear pull, clean it up and then move to 4th gear. Be careful. Dont try to induce knock with a sudden throttle input as you might be inducing boost spike. Are you on open or closed loop boost system? Remember to clean up your knock at low rpm first then move up the rpm band. I hope this helps, you can always call Turbo XS for more answers or just grab a local guru.
Bob
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:28 PM   #3
ndw1138
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Default Re: UTEC tuning help in So Cal?

Quote:
Originally posted by StepinRazor
Anyone who lives in So Cal willing to give a fellow subaru owner some help tuning my UTEC?

I think I'm over my head with this tuning stuff, I basically have a stock WRX with the stage 1 map and have turned the timing down by 3 all across the timing map (for 91 octane gas!). My ABC is turned up about 3 turns and I see 14.5~15.0 psi in 4th gear peak.


Does someone want to drive around with me who knows about timing, AFR, and all that to help me get my car running smoothly?

- John

Phil over at Turbo XS recommend a shop called XS Engineering (they have a website - http://xs-engineering.com/ )

I never did go to them as I'm still pretending I can do it myself. On a cold day or evening I can run without knocks on 91 octane up to 17.5 psi. Sadly though I still have issues when it warms up, I'm told I'm close but that last 5% is really begining to be too difficult.

I recently added 3.5 gallons of racing fuel to my standard 91 fill up. At that point it was much easier to dial things in. I have a feeling 91 octane is just unfun and difficult as hell without the proper gear.

nathan

PS where do you live relative to pasadena?
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Old 04-09-2003, 06:56 PM   #4
motoxphil
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Default

John,

Your close and that is easy to fix.

You are experiencing high boost at low rpm due to the high load created by "mashing" the pedal at low rpm in a high gear.

A dyno tune will not fix this as it need to be road tuned so grab the laptop, hit datalogger #1 to induce this condition. The log will tell you where to reduce timing.

Knock will most likely be under 3K but in load sites 80-100 only. Reduce timing by 2 degrees under these conditions. Take a look at the STG3 timing curves in the 100% load column to get an idea.

Timing Map
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [35] [35] [35] [35] [35] [35] [35]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [35] [35] [35] [35] [35] [35] [35]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30] [27]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [27] [27] [27] [27] [27] [27] [25]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [20] [20] [20] [20] [20] [20] [18]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [20] [20] [20] [20] [20] [20] [16]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [15]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [15]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [16]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [16]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [18] [16]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [20] [20] [20] [20] [20] [20] [16]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [21] [21] [21] [21] [21] [21] [16]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [22] [22] [22] [22] [22] [22] [16]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [23] [23] [23] [23] [23] [23] [17]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [24] [24] [24] [24] [24] [23] [17]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [24] [24] [24] [24] [24] [23] [18]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [24] [24] [24] [24] [24] [23] [19]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [24] [24] [24] [24] [24] [23] [20]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [24] [24] [24] [23] [21]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [24] [24] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [24] [24] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [24] [24] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]
[-100] [-100] [-100] [-100] [25] [25] [25] [25] [25] [23] [22]

Good luck!

Phil
TurboXS
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Old 04-10-2003, 04:22 AM   #5
StepinRazor
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2002 WRX Bugeye!

Default Thanks for the responses

I've been doing a few more data logging runs and have mostly eliminated the knocks. Let me say that I am very pleased with the power and wish I had really did more homework before jumping into self tuning.

A few more quick questions that may help me and other new users. I truly appreciate the help and recommendations, best part about owning a subie.

1) Using the text file generated by the datalogger, I am not seeing any values in the knock column. I only see the CEL light flicker on the road and when I load the file into the uteclogger that I downloaded from wrxhackers. It shows up as a RED box in the modified timing column as detonation. Other than seeing it in my car and on uteclogger how do I determine knock?

2) So from what Phil and others are posting I should remove timing in the areas where I get knocks (according to what I'm seeing with uteclogger - cause I dont see them in the datalogger files (#1)) and only in the RPM range and load site where it happens. Phil I dont seem to be seeing any load sites of 100, but I will remove them in the RPM/Load sites I have knock. Should I also remove some timing in the RPM range above and below and/or load sites above and below?

3) I assume the stock ECU makes compensations for low/high altitude and temperature. Will UTEC running the modified maps be able to properly compensate, or do I need to have different maps for such conditions?

4) Any other suggestions and or tuning tips? btw I'm using the Open-Loop map and live in huntington beach, thanks to Bob and ndw1138...

I'll try to run some more logs tommorrow driving to work. I'm trying to be as conservative as possible, this is my daily driver.
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Old 04-10-2003, 04:35 AM   #6
makofoto
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Default

I add a couple of gallons of 114 octane Toluene to each tank full of 91 octane ... to give me a good 94 octane ... i usually add about 10 gallons of 91.

Gallon of Toluene can be had at ICI Delux Paint stores for $6/gallon ... tell them you are using it as fuel additive.

Toluene is the main ingredient of Octane boosters (or the similiar Xylene)
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Old 04-10-2003, 01:20 PM   #7
bobsterswrx
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I would search past posts on closed loop boost. Open loop can be affected by air density ie temperature and humidity. I dont know why you are not logging knock on #1. One way to check it is to see if your utec is pulling timing in the areas you suspect knock. Your timing map curve should be smooth. No big ups or downs. In my experience you can get that subtle knock right where your turbo is building boost. The variation in octane level from one tank to another can also cause it. We have 101 unlleaded race gas in the pump at a station close to my house so I add enough to make 93 octane. The cars run much better at 93 or more! You might want to try closed loop boost next. Also, the load figures represent levels of boost so your stock turbo probably cant get to 100%. I think the term "load" is a little misleading.
Bob
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Old 04-11-2003, 07:15 PM   #8
StepinRazor
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Default Base Stage 1 Map with CLB

Anyone living in So Cal wanna send me a sample of their Stage 1 map for a completely stock car? I know it's not safe to use other peoples maps, but I'd like to see an example of someone's work so that I may gleen some knowledge.

I've been pulling timing everywhere with 7's and 8's in some places and I'm not sure if it's still knocking cause I dont have a smooth timing map. So this is where someone's knock free base map may help me. Phil do you have an example of a Stage 1 map for so cal 91 octane?

Also other than XS-engineering are there any other local so-cal tuners for UTEC?

Thanks for all the help!
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