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Old 04-09-2003, 01:33 PM   #1
Red Rocket
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Default Price on used 6-spd once they're here?

Just wondering what we'll see for prices on used 6-speeds from USDM sti's, out of wrecked cars. I've seen the tranny's go for about $4.5k, and the whole swap (rear diff, etc) for about $5.5k or so, but that's imported stuff. Your thoughts please.

If it gets down to about $4k for a full swap, that would make it very hard to justify getting any kind of 5-speed aftermarket gearset.

Kevin
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:54 PM   #2
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I'd imagine it would get get to $4K once people start wrecking their STis and the dealerships are capable of selling the 6spd transmissions outright.
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Old 04-11-2003, 01:40 PM   #3
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Does any body know if the actuall gears are any stronger on the six speed? I was seriously considering getting a 6 speed (my transmission is currently blown to peices) but im worried those gears may not be much stronger; where as with the gimme gears you are guaranteed a much stronger gear set.
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Old 04-11-2003, 03:47 PM   #4
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Oh for crying out loud.....


Of COURSE the gears are stronger. Not only are the gears themselves stronger but the CASE is stronger. And THAT is the main difference.. The 6 speed tranny case is made of ring structures that massively increase rigidity and decrease flex under load. Run big power through the 5 speed and the force will start to cause tranny case deflection which pushes the gear teeth farther apart, which increases stress.. and, well, you can see where this is going.
Are you aware (of course not.. you are a WRX'er ) that the origins of the Subie 5speed date to the 70's, when the initial design was made to handle something less than 100hp. Which is why problems surfaced once power levels started ramping up.

And yeah.. if the price for everything dropped to the $4k level, nobody will do anything besides a 6speed swap
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Old 04-11-2003, 04:54 PM   #5
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Not that there are any in the country yet mind you, but the 6 speed is presently $4994.83 at list price from your friendly neighborhood Subaru dealership .

EDIT: People, I need to make this clear. I do not know exactly what this comes with- it is a complete tranny assembly, and it may or may not come with the DCCD. It will not come with axles for certain- Subaru is not in the habit of making "kits" to retrofit things like transmissions into other models/years. Please stop asking me what it comes with- I haven't ordered one, I don't have one here, and there are none in the country right now, so I have no idea. Most importantly, I AM NOT SELLING THESE SO PLEASE STOP EMAILING/PM'ING ME TO GET YOU ONE. I will ignore any PM's emails about this from now on, so don't wonder why I don't respond. Thank you .


Brian


Last edited by North Ursalia; 04-14-2003 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 04-11-2003, 05:53 PM   #6
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WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

That's for a complete tranny correct? Including the electronic center diff, but no wiring?

Thanks,

Kevin
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Old 04-12-2003, 11:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by North Ursalia
Not that there are any in the country yet mind you, but the 6 speed is presently $4994.83 at list price from your friendly neighborhood Subaru dealership .


Brian

Where do I sign up?
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Old 04-13-2003, 01:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by North Ursalia
your friendly neighborhood Subaru dealership .


Brian

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Old 04-13-2003, 01:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
That's for a complete tranny correct? Including the electronic center diff, but no wiring?

Thanks,

Kevin
anybody know?
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:20 PM   #10
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Aren't complete synchro gear sets from PPG and Gimmie gears like $2500?

From what I've seen those gearsets are pretty massive. I suspect much more beefy than the 6 speed setup. Although the flexible 5-speed case might still be a disadvantage.
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:24 PM   #11
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I guess we have to ask how flexible it is. Take Cobb Tuning's Conebasher. It has an upgraded gear set in a stock case and makes over 400 hp at the wheels.
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Old 04-17-2003, 01:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bolster
I guess we have to ask how flexible it is. Take Cobb Tuning's Conebasher. It has an upgraded gear set in a stock case and makes over 400 hp at the wheels.
It has a dog box... not exactly easy to street useable.
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by DocDetroit
Aren't complete synchro gear sets from PPG and Gimmie gears like $2500?

From what I've seen those gearsets are pretty massive. I suspect much more beefy than the 6 speed setup. Although the flexible 5-speed case might still be a disadvantage.
The 5 speed becomes glass-like at 280lbs... the 6 speed with the new dccd well have to wait and see. But ive heard of 400 with out problems.
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Old 04-17-2003, 05:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by North Ursalia
Not that there are any in the country yet mind you, but the 6 speed is presently $4994.83 at list price from your friendly neighborhood Subaru dealership .

EDIT: People, I need to make this clear. I do not know exactly what this comes with- it is a complete tranny assembly, and it may or may not come with the DCCD. It will not come with axles for certain- Subaru is not in the habit of making "kits" to retrofit things like transmissions into other models/years. Please stop asking me what it comes with- I haven't ordered one, I don't have one here, and there are none in the country right now, so I have no idea. Most importantly, I AM NOT SELLING THESE SO PLEASE STOP EMAILING/PM'ING ME TO GET YOU ONE. I will ignore any PM's emails about this from now on, so don't wonder why I don't respond. Thank you .


Brian

Man that's funny...I just talked to Brian on the phone (about a STI intercooler - new, $1100 with all the parts needed, list price), and he mentioned this.

As for the gearsets: I think the gimme gears set is over $3000, the PAR set will run $2000-2500. The Modena doxbox kit is over $5000. Then you need assembly - $1000, which also means downtime. To be fair you should also include the price of upgraded front and center diffs, which start at about $800 apeice. Plus you might want to have the ring/pinion cryo-treated while you're at it, and also intall a steel RA shift fork. So you're really looking at about $5000-$6000 at the very least for a fully built up box, and this doesn't even include the rear diff.

This makes a full sti swap including R180 rear diff, good front and center diffs, rear hubs and brakes, for around $5000 (or less), starts to sound pretty damn attractive. Plus it could be done at home over a weekend.

We'll see how the prices are once they get here.

Kevin
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Old 06-23-2003, 03:35 PM   #15
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bump!
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Old 06-23-2003, 04:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket

This makes a full sti swap including R180 rear diff, good front and center diffs, rear hubs and brakes, for around $5000 (or less), starts to sound pretty damn attractive. Plus it could be done at home over a weekend.
Don't forget the driveshaft, electronics, ABS integration, etc.

It'd be a very, very busy weekend.

/Andrew
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Old 06-23-2003, 06:28 PM   #17
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O.K, so this may seem to be a goofy question, but is the case on the JDM STI 5 speed and different than the USDM. Seems those trannies used are $1500 or so. The gears are supposed to be slightly stronger I gather and if the case is stronger.....

Is the STI 6 speed that much beter(strength wise) that the JDM STI 5 Speed is now irrelevant?

Just curious, is there no way to strengthen the existing USDM case? Gussets or something.

Last edited by ebeck; 06-23-2003 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:47 PM   #18
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the only difference between the jdm 5 and our 5 is the gearing.
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Old 06-24-2003, 03:22 AM   #19
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dealer cost on JUST the 6 speed is $4100. And SOA has a hold on dealers selling engines and trannys until they have enough stockpiled to fill possible failures of the STis already on the road... So it might be till september or later before the dealer can get these.. and they wont be that cheap.

-mike
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Old 06-24-2003, 10:23 PM   #20
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everybodys talking about the "complete" swap, which includes the dccd, the rear diff, axles, shaft, and what not, what about the poor guys who need a tranny, and will settle for the box and the driveshaft, and swap the ring pinion on our r160.

-mikey
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Old 06-25-2003, 01:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcu81
everybodys talking about the "complete" swap, which includes the dccd, the rear diff, axles, shaft, and what not, what about the poor guys who need a tranny, and will settle for the box and the driveshaft, and swap the ring pinion on our r160.

-mikey
Well no one knows if it is even posible to get the new dccd into a wrx. theres a thread on the subject...

but all most of us want is a 6 speed.
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Old 06-25-2003, 07:11 PM   #22
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I have been looking into the 04 USDM STi specs. & have seemed to find that the front diff &/or final drive ratio seems to be 3.90...
IIRC the stock 02/03 rear is a 3.90???
Forget the r180 upgrade untill the r160 blows up...
As far as the front axle inner CV spline & axle shaft leingth diffrences that of course is unavoidable...
If the USDM 6speed case does come with a DCCD then some work will be envolved to intergrate that into the system.
As nice as it would be I would still be happy with a viccous unit as opposed to an empty spot.
IIRC the rear drive shaft & I assume the clutch must be changed too...

If I am wrong on the ease of a conversion let me know, I don't plan on doing a 6speed unless needed...
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Old 06-25-2003, 09:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Man that's funny...I just talked to Brian on the phone (about a STI intercooler - new, $1100 with all the parts needed, list price), and he mentioned this.

What parts does that include? I talked to three dealers who said the IC core was $600 and the Y-pipe was another $100. What else is there, the hoses and fittings?
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Old 06-26-2003, 08:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by GLwagon
I have been looking into the 04 USDM STi specs. & have seemed to find that the front diff &/or final drive ratio seems to be 3.90...
IIRC the stock 02/03 rear is a 3.90???
Forget the r180 upgrade untill the r160 blows up...
As far as the front axle inner CV spline & axle shaft leingth diffrences that of course is unavoidable...
If the USDM 6speed case does come with a DCCD then some work will be envolved to intergrate that into the system.
As nice as it would be I would still be happy with a viccous unit as opposed to an empty spot.
IIRC the rear drive shaft & I assume the clutch must be changed too...

If I am wrong on the ease of a conversion let me know, I don't plan on doing a 6speed unless needed...
The stock US drivetrain uses a 3.90 overall final drive but it attains it by using a 1.1:1 transfer gear in the center case and a 3.54 final drive in the rear diff. The US/JDM/Aus 6MT still uses a 3.9 but has a 1.0:1 transfer gear. The UK/Euro ones use the same 1.1:1/3.54 setup so you could just bolt in a UK 6MT. The front axles are exactly the same as far as the splines go, but the axle itself/CV is a little larger, so you can use the 5MT axles without a problem.

As for the US DCCD I think getting that to work is more trouble than it's worth. You may be able to do away with the "Auto" mode and just wire up a switch to increase the lockup on it. I know people that have done this with the older ones, but those didn't have an auto mode.

The propshaft is a different length so you can either get a 6MT one or one off an automatic WRX, they are the same.

A 5MT clutch will work fine with the 6MT, but not the other way around. The 6MT clutch is a few mm larger than the 5MT one.

Overall I don't think getting the 6MT now that the car is in the US is going to be all that much cheaper than what it was before. If you want to buy a brand new one, then it is cheaper. But good luck with the DCCD and all that crap.
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Old 06-26-2003, 07:57 PM   #25
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good info...
now that you mention it I do recall the 1.1 vs. 1.0 problem
So if we had a source for UK 6 speeds what would be more inexpensive?

Import a UK box & be done with it...
or
Pick up a US box & r180 diff or swap the ratio (if posible) in the r160...
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