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Old 04-09-2003, 03:27 PM   #1
paulatwork
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NESIC Trackh0z # 456

Default Azenis question (look here jack!)

So there's lots of good stuff going for the azenis sport.

Great thread wear, fantastic dry grip, and we know if you use them you'll surely win an auto-x dry or wet

Hardly anyone has talked about how they feel though. Somebody posted that "falkens are crap" in the ecsta thread in 'car parts', and that got me thinking that I overlooked an aspect of these tires.

So how do the azenis handle? I'm wondering about steering feedback, high speed stability.. that sorta thing. I don't really like the kumho supras that I'm on.

mucho gracias!
paul
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Old 04-09-2003, 04:07 PM   #2
Jack
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Default Who, me?

Paul,

As you've observed, I'm a huge fan of Azenis Sports. I just put on a set onto the S4 and besides snow tires, that's all I own for that car.

Here are things that impress me, in order of importance:

1: they don't fall apart on the track
2: they are reasonably sticky on the track
3: they wear like a normal street tire
4: they are better in wet than the same tread depth RE-92 (I've run new and very worn RE-92's in the wet, on the track. Chunked the new ones, scared the sh*# out of myself with the worn ones)
5: they don't pick up every screw within 2 counties and make themselves into pincushions like R compound tires on the street.
6: they're very cheap

Here are the things that I do not like about them

1: they suck in snow
2: with the stiff sidewall, they follow crowns and grooves in the road more than most tires. Similar to an R compound like the old BFG R1's (sidewall similar)
3: they are noisy compared to something like an RE92 or SP8000.
4: with a stiff suspension, they will be more jarring than a typical street tire.
5: Tire Rack doesn't carry them (grrrrrr) although I've pleaded with Luke, he has about as much power as I do....so I buy my wheels from TR and get Azenis and mount em at the local tire shop.

I consider all the things that I don't like to be quite minor and none of this really bothers me. They all are more bothersome on a stiffly sprung/shocked RS than on the S4, which seems to absorb and isolate most of the jarring and noise. I am currently running new (mounted Saturday) 225-45-17's on the S4 with 7.5" width wheels and they are not significantly more annoying than the 205-55-16 blizzaks that were previously on the car. I'm running 40# all around on the street.

If you plan to drive both on the track and on the street, I don't think there is another good choice. S03's wear out way faster and cost almost twice as much. I don't know enough about Toyo T1's....maybe they're worth considering. Any track tire on a WRX is probably good for max 10 days. Admittadly, my RS was only 2700lb and underpowered, but I hit the corners harder than most WRX's and got 14 days out of them. JSnow continues to drive them....I think on the street and as a rain backup.

Ok, how do they handle? Turn in is extremely crisp. I have hypothised that this was the base tire for the fabled BFG R1 (pre-G force) because they feel exactly the same on the track, just with a harder compound. They transmit what's going on well, even howl a bit to let you know how they're doing. No surprises. As with an R compound, I can oversteer/understeer with the throttle in the oval at NHIS very easily. I can't tell you about very high speed stability, as I'm only slightly over 110 at LRP, but they're fine there. They're fine at 105 into turn 3 at NHIS...where the braking zone was very uneven.

As far as a post of someone saying "Falkens are crap", send them a PM and ask them if they have ever owned Azenis Sports. I've read lots and lots and lots of posts over on the tire forum of guys saying "yah, I looked on the site and with those big tread blocks, they must suck in rain" and the same guy posting 2 months later as if he was a professional tire tester with a year of testing on the tires. These guys have never even seen an Azenis, let alone driven on them.

Look at the pits at any track day now. 2 years ago, only a couple Hondas and a couple Subarus ran Azenis. Now, I see them on everything. Heck, even Ryan C, with his bread truck M-Coupe ran them.

I'd offer to let you drive a set of wheels with some Azenis on them....but I've sold them all .

jack
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Old 04-09-2003, 04:28 PM   #3
fastfood
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I have Kumho MXs and will be at NHIS on Friday. Check out these tires. I love them so far, but the track will tell.
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Old 04-09-2003, 04:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who, me?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack ffr1846

. Heck, even Ryan C, with his bread truck M-Coupe ran them.
jack
hey man dont make fun of M coupes, THAT'S MY NEXT CAR!!! (thats the plan for now anyway, wait about 4 years, sell the rex and buy an M coupe)
Although I read an article on the new Volvo S60R and it is SICK
big luxury car with electronically adjustable suspension and 0-60 in 5.4 seconds for 38 grand !!!
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Old 04-09-2003, 04:56 PM   #5
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I have the Azenis sports and I LOVE them.
There is NO way to compare them to the Pirelli P6000's that were on the car.
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:14 PM   #6
KC
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Sorry, been out of the loop for a while. I didn't think there were other tires still on the market other than Azenis.
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:27 PM   #7
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Default One downside

I really wanted to go with these tires one downside not listed is that they don't make a 215/45 17 only a 225/45 17. Which means if you want to put them on a WRX wagon with 17's or any old body style cars with 17's you have to roll the fenders. I wasn't willing to do this.
Joshua
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:34 PM   #8
paulatwork
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Hey Jack, thanks for the hugely informative article. You should post that up on the Car Parts forum.

Stability at 110 mph is much more than good enough for me!

You've answered all my questions about this tire, and I'm definitely going to be getting these on my wagon.

My main grouse about the kumho's is that they've got pretty wooly steering response, especially once you get up to highway speeds. To me, it's as if there's excessive play in the steering rack.

Thanks again!
paul
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:04 PM   #9
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Actually Jack, I've tossed your legendary Azenis and replaced them with fresh ones, and 55s this time. The more I think about it, I probably should have kept them and given them to someone from here, but, oh well. They were worn all the way down to the tread-wear marker all the way across the tire on all four tires. I drove them really hard as soon as I got them from you, because I was so ecstatic to have a sticky tire on the car again. They had a good life.

Since I went straight from those 215/45/16s to 205/55/16s, a few thoughts:

The 45 profile Azenis was insane. I liked it so much that I'm planning to go back to 45s for my rain track tire in the future. I joked that the steering response was so sharp that you could perform brain surgery with it.

The downsides were ride harshness, especially in central Boston where I do most of my driving. And the tires followed everything in the road. If it was on the road, you felt it. I liked this a lot, except for always worrying about bending one of your nice RS rims.

When I got the 55s put on, the ride got much smoother, but my first thought was, "Wow. My steering is so vague now."

Just to keep things in perspective, saying that a 55 profile Azenis has vague steering compared to a 45 profile Azenis is like saying that it hurts less to be shot with a .38 than with a .45.

So, I'm sticking with 55s for the street, but will definitely be reverting to 45s for the track.

Paulatwork: If you're interested in taking some Azenis out for a spin some day, let me know. I have two mounted sets, both 205/55/16s.

Jack: Awesome post. Is there a Tire FAQ on this board? If there isn't, we should start one with that post.
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:07 PM   #10
KC
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Default Re: One downside

Quote:
Originally posted by yebokmj
I really wanted to go with these tires one downside not listed is that they don't make a 215/45 17 only a 225/45 17. Which means if you want to put them on a WRX wagon with 17's or any old body style cars with 17's you have to roll the fenders. I wasn't willing to do this.
Joshua
??? They fit fine on my car with the 48 offset attacks. No rolling done or needed.
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:17 PM   #11
yebokmj
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Unhappy Damn

I did alot of research on this before going with my tires Yokohama 215/45 AVS ES100. I am dissapointed to hear that I might have gotten away with them though I still doute it. I had slight rubbing with the 214/45 S-02's under hard cornering. Is your wagon on stock suspension? I also using a 48 offset wheel, OZ Supperleggras.
Joshua
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:25 PM   #12
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You also don't have the current gen WRX Wagon. Yup... stock. And to be fair, haven't pushed it yet. That will maybe happen this weekend at the autox... then we'll find out.
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:39 PM   #13
paulatwork
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Thanks for the offer jsnow, maybe if we get to meet at one of the meets, I'd love to

I've emailed chang for a quote on a set, waiting to see how much it'll be. Wonder if anyone will buy my kumhos with 500 miles and this friday's trackday on them...
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:45 PM   #14
jsnow
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Hell, we're in the same general area. I'm in Kendall Square in the daytime. I could just throw the wheels and the jack in the car and meet you somewhere if you want.
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Old 04-09-2003, 07:51 PM   #15
paulatwork
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oh! you meant for me to put the set on my car!

That's very generous of you! Thanks but that's ok.
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:07 PM   #16
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Just for the record, I was not comfortable with how my Azenis did in the wet, specifically in standing water, plenty of hydroplane. It was just not confidence inspiring in real world wet driving. They are great on wet pavement, however.

Kevin
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:09 PM   #17
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On a highway, in the rain, 65 tops.

Do you use rain-x? It helps ya see them puddles so you can move around them.
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Just for the record, I was not comfortable with how my Azenis did in the wet, specifically in standing water, plenty of hydroplane. It was just not confidence inspiring in real world wet driving. They are great on wet pavement, however.
This doesn't surprise me based on the tread pattern.. Like Jack I've owned a few tires (well, maybe not as many as Jack, but a few.. ) and unidirectional tires tend to rock in standing water while well worn Azenis would be interesting.

Jack - for the record I think most tires are better than worn RE-92s in the wet. I ran RE-92s on a rainy day at Devens and oh my god they sucked. Overall RE-92s are okay, but for an AutoX, icky in the rain. When I bought my RE-730s and ran them at Devens, I had more traction in the rain with the RE-730s than the RE-92s in the dry.

Personally I'll probably never run a set of Azenis for day to day driving because I would rather have something like an RE-730 making contact with the road, but for AutoXing, I'll be getting some Azenis for my next tires after I rip thru my basically free RE-92s.

- Ken
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:53 PM   #19
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<Tweak>
Gah!
*twitch, twitch*
Azenis... *twitch* my rain track tire... GAAAH!
*twitch*
</Tweak>

It was pouring rain at this NHIS event and I was on Azenis:
http://www.comscc.org/results/nhis1002.htm
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Old 04-09-2003, 09:14 PM   #20
Jack
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James, way to go! Somehow, I missed that! Of course an S4 is going to be faster with all that torque, starting at 6rpm (dig) but beating Frank is a HUGE accomplishment. For anyone else who isn't in COM, Frank was voted best instructor 2 years ago and has been instructing about as long as I've been track driving. He was constantly my target last year. He "complained" to me that he did 23 track days last year and thought it was a bit too much. He also had an RS before the rex, so really knows this car. He's also got an STi on order. I know that Frank does not run Azenis..(yet).he's got about 5 sets of real track tires..Kumhos, Toyo T1, Hoosier, some 225's of some type etc. Wow!



You tossed the 215's They should have been in a museum

jack
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Old 04-09-2003, 09:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack ffr1846
You tossed the 215's They should have been in a museum
Yeah, it was a dumb decision. Been regretting it almost daily. Sorry.
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Old 04-09-2003, 09:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by KC
On a highway, in the rain, 65 tops.

Do you use rain-x? It helps ya see them puddles so you can move around them.
Sure.

Toyo t1-s = 85+ mph in the rain comfortably, while dodging traffic. If you hit standing water, the car is not upset too bad.

I can see the Azenis being great on a track in the rain, where you know what to expect for standing water.

Kevin
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Old 04-09-2003, 09:35 PM   #23
paulatwork
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I'm trying to check out prices on the proxes... who sells them online?

paul
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Old 04-10-2003, 08:18 AM   #24
redobs
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsnow
The downsides were ride harshness, especially in central Boston where I do most of my driving. And the tires followed everything in the road. If it was on the road, you felt it. I liked this a lot, except for always worrying about bending one of your nice RS rims.
You ain't kidding. This happened to me last year. I was running 215-45-16's. Beware of the underpass where the 99 Restaurant in Charlestown is...rightmost lane. I destroyed both right side rims.




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Old 04-10-2003, 05:06 PM   #25
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wow that's nasty!
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