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Old 04-15-2003, 10:22 PM   #26
WL Flatout
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Hi everyone,

Brian, thanks for providing the write-up and commentary. However, I need to pipe in regarding the issue of noise and the modifcations/refitment of the 3 tabbed metal washer.

Our instructions (copy available from http://www.whiteline.com.au/fittingsheets.htm ) do not mention removal or modification of any existing components. The parts supplied in the KSB751 kit are designed to be used with all exisiting components in the original positions. The supplied poly rings are designed to take up the space available for cradle rock which is responsible for the thump symptoms etc. So, we can not vouch for or comment on what Brian has done on his vehicle.

Having been the test pilot for our R & D, I can confirm that apart from the pluses mentioned, the downsides were a slight increase in NVH (inevitable) and less tolerance for sloppy driving due to the faster response in the rear end. Specifically, it was a lot easier to to steer by throttle with next to no lost motion in cradle take-up in response to extra torque. It just caught me out in the initial stages as you previously made a subconcious allowance for this in your driving style. With the kit fitted, it felt nervous in the rear until you realised that it was simply responding more directly to input.

Can't really prove that the mods you've done Brian have dramaticaly increased NVH but its the only thing that makes sense considering our experience with these parts and how nosiy they are.

Brian, as for the CYA statement re diff lock bolts , we couldnt possibly confirm that but would like to mention and remind everyone that every modifcation we ever make must have an impact on the durabitlity and longevity of related components that were not engineered for this purpose.

The rear diff cradle and its connection to the chassis were designed to connect via a bush so removing the bush compliance using KSB750 bolts must put additional load elsewhere. Whether or not its significant or potentially dangerous is impossible to answer as it will vary with so many other factors. However, its important that we are all aware of this and the fact that it is all about compromise and shifting the fulcrum point toward performance.

Best regards
Jim

Whiteline Automotive
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Old 04-15-2003, 10:45 PM   #27
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Good evening Mr. Gurieff

I figured you'd find this thread sooner or later . I can attest to the crispness in the rear end you describe, and it's a wonderful feeling . As for the noise I'm hearing, it is probably due in large part to a few factors. First and foremost, whereas the Old School Impreza is a tank in terms of sound deadening, the New Age Impreza is a battleship . That, and the rear seats in the New Age fold and are therefore much thicker- all I have between the rear/trunk area of the car and me is about 3 inches of foam and a sheet of plastic . That, and with the lock bolts constantly fitted and the bushing kit installed, all that noise has to go somewhere, and it's going into the body of the car. I probably overexaggerated the noise level in real-world terms. My reference point is people who say the Group N tranny or engine mounts are loud, which I barely even noticed. It's completely bearable and sounds much like the noise from aggressively patterned tires. I love how the car feels now- "tight" all around... keep these great products coming! How about one of those rear diff support bushings someone linked to up above ?


Brian

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Old 04-16-2003, 01:02 AM   #28
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Wow Brian, you must be aiming for the NVH King or something...

BTW, thanks for taking the pics.

Last edited by North Ursalia; 11-16-2012 at 05:09 PM. Reason: Pic removed at some point
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Old 04-16-2003, 01:37 AM   #29
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Good afternoon Brian,

I hope our "lurking" is not that obvious. Actually, we have to thank the multitude of members that send us referals to various threads on the forum. If it wasnt for them we simply couldnt keep up and its important for us that we respond to support the product where we can. We also appreciate your personal support with our stuff.

Understand your point re sound deadening, the extra 120kg of the later model had to go somewhere and its noticeable. Its just that we were a little worried when some people started to unload their lock kits due to expected excessive NVH.

Really happy to get suggestions about new products, it helps us a lot. Are you referring to number 11 from the diagram?

Cheers
Jim

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PS. Did you know we now have complete replacement adjustable rear control arms?
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Old 04-16-2003, 02:58 AM   #30
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I have a product suggestion. Replacement bushings for the front control arms instead of the ALK, because the ALK is not allowed in Street Touring autocross classes... Or perhaps at least some contact with SCCA to see if you can get your ALK into the Street Touring and even the Street Mod classes

If it wasnt for that fact, i would have already ordered an ALK...

P.S. I still havent figured out if the KSR200 Steering rack bushings fit on ANY US spec Impreza's. It seems as if its only the KSR202's over here... Unless anyone in the post has information contrary to that.
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Old 04-16-2003, 03:12 AM   #31
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Kostamojen,

Could you clarify (and anyone else) what you would ideally like to see available with the rear of the front lower control arm bush, specifically (options);

- Heavy duty polyrethane version

- Extra heavy duty (90D motorsport grade) polyurethane version

- Above with some positive caster change built in.

Please keep in mind that it will not look like the stock bush shape irrespective of colour due to the design requirements of polyurethane.

As for rack bush kits, our understanding is that the KSR200 part number suits North America spec early (94-00) Impreza and KSR202 suits 91 onward. We have had a single case of the KSR202 being used for the earlier series but have not been able to clarify why.

For what its worth, Japanese spec RA STi's and WRX in general use the KSR202 shape even in early models so there is a chance that the problem lies with imported steering racks etc.

Cheers
Jim

Whiteline
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Old 04-16-2003, 04:17 AM   #32
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I think number 11 in the drawing is something I'd like to see beefed up. I dont have to push very hard on the rear diff to make it move a bunch on my GC.

For GD there is a nifty STi part that beefs up back there, that comes in the Group N kit.
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Old 04-16-2003, 09:16 AM   #33
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Thanks for the write up brian.....I'll be ordering those shortly from you guys


-Mike
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Old 04-16-2003, 01:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen
I still havent figured out if the KSR200 Steering rack bushings fit on ANY US spec Impreza's. It seems as if its only the KSR202's over here... Unless anyone in the post has information contrary to that.
I do . That steering rack bushing install originally was done with a set of Group N STi bushings, but the bushings presently in my car now are the KSR200. The KSR202 is for the WRX/New Age Impreza only.


Jim, it's not that it's obvious you are here, but it is wonderful to see actual manufacturer support/feedback in these forums, and I'm glad you are here to answer questions and give advice. It was indeed #11 in the kit I was referring to, and as long as we're discussing new ideas, that metal bushing I posted a photo of replaces one of 4 rubber mounts for the main rear suspension crossmember on a New Age Impreza (they are smaller on the Old Bodystyle but similar). You could do those too. I do know about the rear adjustable control arms (I am the same Brian you spoke with from Subaruwrxparts.com ) and I am seriously looking at picking up a set to test out. I'm glad to be a test monkey for anything new if you need one !


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Old 04-16-2003, 02:21 PM   #35
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Ok, got a question. The KSR202 that goes with the WRX, does anybody have a walkthrough for that, or how it's supposed to install, cuz I think I am confused.

About diff mounts, I actually installed the STI rear diff mount and it was pretty easy. It helped from float, but that knock is still there. Probably because the tranny mount is allowing more power to reach the rear diff. So the diff mount is stiffer, but it is under more of a load now.
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Old 04-16-2003, 04:00 PM   #36
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I don't know for certain because I haven't actually carried out the install on a New Age Impreza, but it doesn't look to be any different at all than what I linked to up above. I reserve the right to be proven wrong of course...


Brian

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Old 04-16-2003, 06:48 PM   #37
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Another question for you brian. On your steering rack install, you said you've done it twice as you found some even harder bushings. Which two aftermarket bushings are you compairing? I only know of the whiteline ones, but are there other options? And which ones are the hardest? Thanks.
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Old 04-16-2003, 07:31 PM   #38
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I've thus far actually gone through:

A) Mystery blue ones from some company in OZ, purchased via eBay
B) STi Group N
C) Whiteline

The blue mystery bushings actually turned out harder than stock but they were thinner. Made the install easy, but things turned out worse than stock . The rack clunked.

STi Group N were about as hard as the Whiteline, maybe a bit tougher, but it's just a subjective guess. Only reason I took them off was to redo the mods page on the bushing install, plus they had been on the car for some 65k+ miles .

The Whiteline ones are great, and I have no complaints. There is no clunking, no extra noise or vibration, and the steering (again, subjectively ) feels 'tighter.'


Brian

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Old 04-16-2003, 07:36 PM   #39
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Cool. Whiteline it is then.
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Old 04-16-2003, 09:27 PM   #40
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G'day everyone,

Glad to see we can be of service

We'll start working on both suggested items ASAP.

Cheers
Jim

Whiteline
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:35 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by wrxwgn03
Ok, got a question. The KSR202 that goes with the WRX, does anybody have a walkthrough for that, or how it's supposed to install, cuz I think I am confused.

About diff mounts, I actually installed the STI rear diff mount and it was pretty easy. It helped from float, but that knock is still there. Probably because the tranny mount is allowing more power to reach the rear diff. So the diff mount is stiffer, but it is under more of a load now.
If you have installed the STi "rear" rear diff mount, the onw w/ the metal strap I'd love to here how you did it. I've tried twice now, I even had the drive line disconnected to slide the rear diff forward to clear the two long bolts in the crossframe, but it still wouldn't go (wouldn't drop or come forward enough). It looks like you'd have to the "front" rear diff member off as well to get it. My other idea was to put two nuts on the long "bolts" because they are actually studs, but I was advised against doing this for risk of stripping them (big trouble).

You can read about all my woes (challenges) on this piece in the transmission forum.

Thanks in advance.

Big Sky
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:04 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by WL Flatout
Kostamojen,

Could you clarify (and anyone else) what you would ideally like to see available with the rear of the front lower control arm bush, specifically (options);

- Heavy duty polyrethane version

- Extra heavy duty (90D motorsport grade) polyurethane version

- Above with some positive caster change built in.

Please keep in mind that it will not look like the stock bush shape irrespective of colour due to the design requirements of polyurethane.

As for rack bush kits, our understanding is that the KSR200 part number suits North America spec early (94-00) Impreza and KSR202 suits 91 onward. We have had a single case of the KSR202 being used for the earlier series but have not been able to clarify why.

For what its worth, Japanese spec RA STi's and WRX in general use the KSR202 shape even in early models so there is a chance that the problem lies with imported steering racks etc.

Cheers
Jim

Whiteline
I dont really have any preferences on material for the control arm bushings, just something inexpensive and legal for SCCA Street Touring classes.

As for the KSR202 vs. KSR200 problem, Ive found that the KSR202's are the only ones fitting any USDM Imprezas... My 95 L along with another local I-clubers L (one a GM2, the other a GC4) and also a couple of 2000 and 2001 model RS's ive checked have all been KSR202's. I am still working on figuring out if any USDM 93-01 models actually do use the KSR200's...
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:35 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen

As for the KSR202 vs. KSR200 problem, Ive found that the KSR202's are the only ones fitting any USDM Imprezas... My 95 L along with another local I-clubers L (one a GM2, the other a GC4) and also a couple of 2000 and 2001 model RS's ive checked have all been KSR202's. I am still working on figuring out if any USDM 93-01 models actually do use the KSR200's...
Ack! I just ordered some KSR200's, so if we could get some clarification on this? Brian? Jim?
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:42 AM   #44
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I just put the KSR200's on my car last weekend... I can 100% guarantee they fit a 2000 RS . They also fit a 97 L I had the pleasure of installing them on . Checking against part numbers for all Impreza models, there are 4 different steering racks used in the Impreza line, 3 of which are not the New Age. Of those remaining 3, I have installed the 200's on 2 of them, the only one I haven't touched is found on a 8/94-6/95 Impreza L 2WD model. What, exactly, didn't fit the ones you installed Kostamojen?


Brian

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Old 04-17-2003, 11:44 AM   #45
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Can someone with good Japanese clarify:

http://www.luck.co.jp/main/elsport/el_mount.htm
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:46 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aspen
Can someone with good Japanese clarify:

http://www.luck.co.jp/main/elsport/el_mount.htm

And after that, can you please translate my GC8 HyperRev magazine?
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Old 04-17-2003, 12:04 PM   #47
North Ursalia
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Babelfish Baby !

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...t.htm&lp=ja_en

Quote:
Various strengthening mounts
The genuine mount the vibration which occurs from the section has prevented the fact that it is transmitted to the body. However, at the time of sport travelling because the rubber where the genuine mount is soft is used, it moves in excess. When this corporation strengthening type mount is used, also the entering of the mission becomes good then with improvement of cornering efficiency and traction efficiency regarding the mission mount, the
In addition the diff. mount linear effectiveness of the LSD and shows the good response by converting the mount section rigidly.

* Because of the note competition private part, the vibration and the like of the vehicle being to become large, please note.
and

Quote:
Sport shift mount
When the mount section of the genuine shifter (with the body) the bush which has entered, is exchanged to this color, feeling of the shifter becomes good.

* Have become adaptation only of all the car manual mission cars.

Brian

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Old 04-18-2003, 01:40 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by North Ursalia
What, exactly, didn't fit the ones you installed Kostamojen?
The passanger side steering rack bushing was the KSR202 bushing size not the KSR200... The 200 just did not even fit inside the bracket. Here is the post I made about it:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ghlight=ksr202

NOTE: The pics are broken cause I got rid of them when I figured out the 202's worked.
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Old 04-20-2003, 02:35 PM   #49
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Ok, I just installed my Diff Lock Bushings and all I have to say to all the pansies out there is.....


WHAT NVH?!?!?!?!

Ran her hard through every gear up to about 90mph and I didnt notice hardly any difference from before (STi Engine, Tranny and Pitch stop installed already)




WL, I dont know how the upper bushing (with the small filler) would go in there with the tangs on the washer sticking down, seems to me it would push it out of the larger bushing and most likely tear it up. I did like Brian and put them in the bottom for a little more surface area on the biscuit. However, I did not hammer down the tangs.
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Old 04-20-2003, 06:41 PM   #50
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Just got done attempting to install the steering rack bushings. Just like Kostamojen, the passenger side bushing in the 200 kit is too narrow. Guess I will swap them out for some 202s.


Incidentally. The anti-vibration weight in my crossmember weighed in at 4lbs exactly; I left it off.

Update: no detectable change with that harmonic adjustment weight out. Perhaps whatever created the necessity for it is nonexistant with STi engine/trans mounts.

Last edited by RokketRide; 04-21-2003 at 05:18 PM.
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