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Old 04-13-2003, 11:36 PM   #1
BIGSKYWRX
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Default Anybody running the PZero Nero?

I'm trying to broaden my tire perspectives and am looking at a possible replacement for my T1S's (they're looking tired ). I read Tirerack's test w/ the Pilot Sports and S03's and the tire looks very impressive- they ranked on top, albeit it was very close. I've searched around and the Nero's also appear to be on the light side, not quite T1 light but very close (lighter than the S03's or Pilot Sports).

I should probably just get T1S's again, but something inside me says try something different.

Thanks in advance.

Big Sky
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Old 04-14-2003, 09:55 AM   #2
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I just read the test at Tire Rack, and those do look interesting. Free bump for you!
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Old 04-14-2003, 11:24 AM   #3
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Reto,

How's it going? You guys probably have been autoxing for the last couple of months (jealous).

The test results were very interesting. If I was going to a "straight" autox tire, I'd look no further than the KD or Azeni's, but everything is far here in MT (we travel 150 miles one way to shop ), thus I need something that will perform very good in the wet also. The T1's have been outstanding, but I'd like to broaden my "horizons".

Mike
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Old 04-14-2003, 11:57 AM   #4
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Big Sky,,when you say wet,you mean snow i assume,,because the BFG KDW is excllent in the rain as well as the dry.I have yet to break these loose

Rudy
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Old 04-14-2003, 01:06 PM   #5
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I'm sure he means wet as in water since he was referring to the KDs and not the KDWs and the Neros and T1-Ss are most definitely not tires you want to run in the snow.

Its interesting to hear that the Neros are relatively light tires. I couldn't find weights for them but I didn't perform an exhaustive search either. In doing some research on them I've found three interesting things. First, Luke mentioned a test by Tirerack in which they were compared against Tires other than the S-03s and Pilot Sports and didn't fare as well. However, I can't find this test on Tire Rack's site. Secondly is that in the 235/40 17 size the minimum wheel width is 8.5" while all other tires I've seen are 8.0" and that in the 225/45 17 size they'll let you go up to a 9" wheel while most tires only go up to 8.5". And its not like the have a wide section width. In fact they're probably closer to the T1-S than the S-03 in that regard. I just wish thre was more tires that had listings for tread width I found some very interesting things when looking at that number on 235/40 17s. Its also interesting to note that in the 225/45 17 size the Neros are available in a W rated tire with a 400 tread wear rating and a Z rated with a 220 tread wear rating. All other sizes only have the 220 tread wear rating.
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Old 04-14-2003, 01:36 PM   #6
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My friend has them on his celica, and i've only heard good things from him about dry & wet performance.
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Old 04-14-2003, 03:09 PM   #7
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Weights, here's what I found thus far:

Here's a post form Alex (tirerack) on a Mini site:

215/35/18

BFGoodRich TA-KDW2 26 lbsKDW2
BFGoodRich Scorcher Ta 21.6 lbsScorcher

Continental Extreme Contact 21 lbs Extreme Contact

Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 27 lbs 712
Kumho Ecsta MX 27 lbs MX

Pirelli P7000 Summer sport 19.4 Summer
Pirelli P7000 Super Sport 19.4 lbs SuperSport
Pirelli P Zero Zero 18.6 lbs Nero

Yokohama Parada Spec 21.09 lbs Parada Spec 2

_________________
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Here's some info from an Audi site



In Reply to: Tire Experts, what is the best summer tire meeting this criteria..... posted by turbo four on 2003-03-29 20:19:08

Pulled from manufacturers websites, calling customer services, and some AW member input. All 225/45-17:

Toyo T1-S 20.9lbs
Pirelli PZero Rosso 21.0lbs
Pirelli PZero Nero ZR/XL 22.02lbs
Kumho MX 22.6lbs
Dunlop 9000 23.6lbs
Yokohama AVS Sport 23.98lbs
Yokohama ES100 24.3lbs
BFG KDW 24.39lbs
B'stone S0-3 25.0lbs
Kumho 712 25.2lbs
Falken GB451 25.8lbs

That's all I could find. Like I said they appear to be on the light side and performance is on par w/ the S03 and Pilot Sport.

Big Sky
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Old 04-14-2003, 03:52 PM   #8
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Just for reference here's the thread in which Luke mentions a Test between the AVS sports, S-03s and Neros, and the Neros don't do as well. Unfortunately I don't see this test on the Tirerack website so I don't know whats up with it.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=nero

Edit: And thanks for the weights. Some things look a little weird like the Kumho MX being real heavy in the 215/35 18s but a reasonable weight in the 225/45 17s but its does look like the Neros are a pretty light tire.

edit2: Kumho's site lists the weight on the 215/35 18 MXs as 20.9 lbs which makes a little more sense.

Last edited by driggity; 04-14-2003 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 04-14-2003, 04:21 PM   #9
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Damn,,I knew my KDWs were heavy,but not that heavy.
Thanks fr the weights Mike,,interesting
Rudy
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Old 04-14-2003, 10:15 PM   #10
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driggity,

I went to the Kuhmo site as well, don't know where he got 27lbs from?

Well I just might have to be the guinnea pig for the Nero's.

Big Sky
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Old 04-15-2003, 11:22 AM   #11
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I have the neros on order...we'll see.

I just dumped my falken azenis cause i got tired of the harsh ride and all the road noise (no complaints in the handlign department, however). Also, the azenis are way too heavy at 26+ lbs for 225/45/17.

thanks for the good tire weight info guys.
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Old 04-15-2003, 03:19 PM   #12
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Update on weights for my size 225/50/16 (threw in prices for the hell of it)

T1S 22.7lbs from Toyo site $138
Nero 23.8lbs from tirerack $130
PilotSport 24.0lbs from tirerack $152
S03 26.0lbs from Bridgestone site $148
KuhmoMX 25.7lbs from Kuhmo site $104

In deference to the S03 and MX, they are W and Y rated respectively, the others are Z rated. Normally it takes more material in the sidewall carcass to achieve the higher speed rating.

Big Sky
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Old 04-15-2003, 08:00 PM   #13
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I'm currently running the Nero's and I have to say that I like them better than the S-03's and the AVS. A lot less noise than the AVS and a little less than the S-03s, more comfortable than both. Water traction is excellent. No snow here in Houston but a lot of rain. Dry traction slighly less than the S-03s but a little bit more than the AVS.

As far as the comparison, heres a little info for you. They come in 2 types: All weather and Summer weather
I have the summer and have not tried the all weather. Maybe the test that was performed was with the All weathers as the Summers are the newer models, I don't know. But I've had all three tires at one point or another and I'm sticking with the Neros. I still like the S-03s and would get them if they were way cheaper. But for me it ZERO NEROs

Jabbar

Last edited by Jfloyd; 04-15-2003 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 04-15-2003, 09:41 PM   #14
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Great to here that. I found reference to the one test Luke mentioned, but no actual test. The one test I did find w/ lots of data, showed the S03, Pilot Sport and Nero to be very close- they actually showed the Nero w/ a little better dry grip than both- but close enough I think it's a draw.

I'll probably give these a go.

Big Sky
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Old 04-16-2003, 07:04 PM   #15
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Try them, and give us a full report! If they're as grippy as the S-03's, they might even make a very good auto-x tire.

Yes, Big Sky, auto-x season is in full swing here! We've had three events already. If it makes you feel any better: We had pouring rain and close to freezing temperatures for our second event, easily the most miserable weather I ever saw at an event. You should come down to St. Louis again sometime! Or are you going to any Divisional/National events?
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Old 04-16-2003, 07:31 PM   #16
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I'd love to make it down again, had a great time. Just got a email from Jerry about another evo school you guys are holding- I'll have to hit another one sometime in the near future. I hope to make at least one divisional- have to travel to Colorado to do it. Nationals- probably not this year (although I'd love to).

I just ordered a set of the Nero's (225/50/16) I'll give a full report when I get them on, have probably two more autox's in my T1's (there just getting good - extra shaved).

Mike
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Old 04-16-2003, 07:47 PM   #17
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Here's the Tire Rack Test .
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Old 04-17-2003, 03:21 PM   #18
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The link posted by LoveThatWeasel and driggity show BIG contradictions. I think Luke might have mistaken the Nero (black) for the Rosso (red)? Because on the actual testing thread the Nero spanked the S-03 on the slalom, but the exact opposite was reported by driggity's link thread.

And I highly doubt that the Nero (or the Rosso for that case) would lose to the AVS sport, which has been consistently beaten by both michelins and b'stones for the past few years.

W/cheaper price, lighter weight and comparable performance to s-03, I think I'll take the Neros next time
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Old 04-17-2003, 03:35 PM   #19
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Yeah, I wish Luke would weigh in on this and clear things up.
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:28 AM   #20
siman
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Just mounted 215/45/17 neros on P1s and they are awesome. Only driven 2 days on them, but like them much better than the Falken Azenis and Contisport 2's overall. Still need to drive them hard in the twisties to assess cornering ability, however, so far they are quieter, ride much better, and feel really sticky (the contisport 2's were 225/45/17 and had an irritating bouncy and vague ride and handled worse than either the neros and azenis; maybe due to the soft walls). The Azenis had awesome cornering tires but were loud with a harsh ride. The weight of the Azenis at 26 lbs was also a detriment.

According to Pirelli, the 215/45/17 neros weigh 22 lbs,and i can tell the difference in acceleration and overall lighter feel of my wrx (some people argue otherwise, but believe me, you can tell the difference of 4 lbs of unsprung wt).

Other specs I got directly from Pirelli for your reference:

Pzero Nero 215/45/17:
-Overall Diameter: 24.8
-SW: 8.6
-Rim: 7 - 8.5
-Rev/Mile: 839
-weight: 22 lbs

Stock Bridgestone RE92, 205/55/16
-Overall Diameter: 25.1
-SW: 8.4
-Rev/mile: 830
-weight: 21 lbs

Question for you math gurus out there:
1) how much will my speedometer be off?
2) has anybody had the dealership re-calibrate their speedo? Is this free or how much did it cost?

get the Neros, you won't regret it!

FYI: got them installed with lifetime rotation balance etc at discount tire for $165 a piece (reasonable deal considering that tire rack charges 149 plus shipping)

Last edited by siman; 04-24-2003 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:21 PM   #21
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Here's a link to a site that lets you calculate the difference between your wheels and stock. Of course it won't be exact cause often tires of the same size have different diameters but it should be close.

Glad to hear that you like these as I'm looking at tires and wanted something somewhat light but recently heard about issues with sidewalls in Toyo tires (which were previously my first choice).

edit: Wow, forgot the link. That was pretty helpful of me Here it is. http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Last edited by driggity; 04-24-2003 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 04-24-2003, 01:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by siman
1) how much will my speedometer be off?
1.1%, based on the revs/mile. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 08-09-2003, 05:59 PM   #23
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Thought I'd update the thread as I've got a few miles (~3000), an autox, a track day and many miles of canyon/mountain runs.

Dry traction is very good, maybe a smidge better than the T1's. Wet traction is on par w/ the T1's, except standing water the T1's handle better- maybe the V traction expells water better?

The ride is relatively quiet, a smidge louder than the T1's (maybe it's just more tread vs my worn T1's?).

Sidewalls are slightly stiffer, running a few less psi @ autox (41/35 T1, 39/34 Nero).

Weight was ~ 1lb more than the T1- not noticable.

Overall very satisfied w/ the tires thus far. Anyone looking for a hi-po tire for wet and dry can hardly go wrong w/ these (ofcourse I'd say the same for the T1's). Thus far tire wear looks good, time and miles will tell. I got almost 20,000 miles out of the T1's w/ many (100's) of autox runs, if I can get close to that I will be very satisfied.

Big Sky
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Old 08-10-2003, 08:44 PM   #24
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I very happy with my 225/45/17 PZero Neros.

- Kean
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Old 08-11-2003, 01:44 AM   #25
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I doubt they are as sticky as the MX, but the comfort and wear will no doubt be better. Higher price too... That weight savings sounds good though...
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