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Old 04-14-2003, 12:24 AM   #1
Takashi
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Default 99rs bogging at 4k rpm?! need help!

i just read a thread where somebody's 99rs flies at 4k rpms...
HOWEVER, my friend has a 99rs with about 80k miles on it, and according to him (i haven't been in the car when this happens, so i don't exactly know what the feeling is...), it seems to lose power when trying to accelerate.
example... he'll be pulling out of a parking lot, and the car will be at around 4k rpms, and when he floors it, it seems to have no power whatsoever; almost like it just loses power. sounds like it is bogging at that rpm. i have no idea what to tell him!
no engine mods. just replaced the spark plugs and had a tune up... he said that helped, but now it's back. could it be a fuel pump problem??? he also said that he's getting the low fuel light right after he fills up the car to full sometimes... don't know if that changes anything.
any help is greatly appreciated!
thanks
greg
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Old 04-14-2003, 04:07 PM   #2
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anybody???
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Old 04-14-2003, 04:32 PM   #3
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Maybe fuel filter. Ever been changed?
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Old 04-14-2003, 05:06 PM   #4
Takashi
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actually, i think that when he got it tuned-up, that's one of the items he had changed... i can't be sure.
thanks
greg
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Old 04-14-2003, 07:17 PM   #5
Fred Zaplitny
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It's really hard to diagnose something like that if there is no check engine light coming on. It's been a long time since I was stock, but one thing that will help to open up the top end a bit would be a K&N panel filter in the first airbox (near the passenger side fender) and a gasket to replace the filter in the secondary air filter (inside the big plastic box just before the throttle body).

This may not fix the problem but it will help the breathing. On a car with that many miles it's hard to say what the problem might be. Did he buy it used? Also did he get the fuel injectors and fuel rails flushed as part of the tune up? That wouldn't be a bad idea either.
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Old 04-14-2003, 07:34 PM   #6
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hey what's up fred...? i think you helped me out with something else before...
anywho, here's the complete deal:
my friend bought the car from me, used. it already has the k&n panel filter in it (it's been in the car since at least 20k miles, if not more...). how long should those things last? and i will definately check the gasket on the secondary airbox. what about the filter in the secondary box? does that ever need replacing?
and i'm gonna see the car tonight, so i'll ask the guy what the 'tune-up' included (fuel rails, injectors, etc.).
otherwise, no CEL, just the whole fuel light thing...
thanks in advance to anyone else who might have some insight!
greg
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Old 04-14-2003, 10:18 PM   #7
Fred Zaplitny
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Make sure the K&N is properly cleaned and oiled. Get the recharge kit from wherever you got the filter. I think Pep-Boys carries it. Be careful not to over-oil! The filter in the secondary box might need replacement if it's dirty. Check it by shining a flashlight through it. I can't imagine that would be that dirty. You can get the gasket from Autocare Subaru.
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Old 04-14-2003, 11:06 PM   #8
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I would check the MAF sensor first there was a recall on it a while ago and even try cleaning it once in a while.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=maf+clean
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Old 04-14-2003, 11:40 PM   #9
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Default MAF

call dealer with vin and they will tell you if it's under recall
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Old 04-14-2003, 11:43 PM   #10
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when that recall first came out, i took it in to be replaced... you think it could still be that?
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Old 04-15-2003, 02:29 AM   #11
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Default just drove the car... and this is what i posted on another board:

just drove it... let me try to describe it as best i can.
accelerating from a dead stop at a normal pace (not fast) the car seems totally fine. then shift into second and hammer the throttle: it accelerates smoothly but once the car reaches around 3500 to 4000 rpm, it seems to hesitate. basically the car jerks a little bit... maybe 2-3 times (not major, neck jerking stuff, but definately noticeable). then it keeps accelerating without a hitch. i don't know too much about how the fuel system works, but it SEEMS like the car might not be getting a sufficient amount of gas. but i really don't know.
it seems like the car almost 'coughs'

he recently had it serviced:
distributor cap changed
fuel filter changed
spark plugs changed
reset timing belt... basically a standard tune-up.
the air filter was clean...

no CEL but the fuel light comes on sometimes right after he fills up the tank to full.
he did say that the 'hesitation' goes away after the cars been running for a while. maybe after it warns up (?).

colin, do i owe you money for a consultation? and to anyone else who might be able to help, thanks!

greg
could it be fuel pump, fuel lines/rails, or injectors???
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Old 04-15-2003, 12:36 PM   #12
Fred Zaplitny
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Distributor cap?

If the dealer told you he replaced that, you might want to go to another dealer next time.

What you have described was what was happening to my car when the coil pack was going bad. Eventually, it only fired on 3 cylinders and threw a CEL for a misfire. Take the plug wires off of the coil pack and see if one of the terminals is discolored. The take the coil pack off and inspect it for tiny cracks. Mine was cracked on the bottom near the number 2 terminal which was green and nasty looking.

Now if the dealer did replace the coil pack (and called it a distributor cap) I would take it back to the dealer and have them replace it if indeed it is bad. That is not something you replace at a normal tune up. They go for about $170 a pop, so you only replace it if it goes bad.

Fred
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Old 04-15-2003, 02:15 PM   #13
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fred: thanks, i will definately check it out...
that being said, i don't exactly know what they did to the distibutor cap, that's just what my friend said. i'll definately get that clarified.
also, COIL PACK. i don't know what that is exactly (call me stupid ). could you describe it???
again, i really appreciate the help fred.
greg
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Old 04-15-2003, 04:42 PM   #14
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The coil pack is what the RS has in place of the distributer cap. There is no distributer cap. The coil pack is what the other end of the spark plug wires are connected to. It's a black box located on the top front of the intake manifold and has 4 spark plug wires connected to it. Pull the plug wires off of it one at a time and check to see what the terminals on the coil pack look like. They should be nice shiney brass color. If one is corroded and green, that's a dead givaway. Even if they all look good, take it off and inspect it foir cracks. It's held on with only two bolts. Just remeber where each plug wire goes (it's pretty obvious really)

Good luck

Fred
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:52 AM   #15
Takashi
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Default worse nitemare coming true???

yep...
like i said, i sold this car to my friend in good faith. it ran fine while i owned it... but apparently, unbeknownst to me, the coil pack was on its last leg.
as of tonight, the car is CELing it left and right (yeah, basically my friend isn't driving it until it gets fixed...) and basically the car sounds like it's dying.
pop the hood, and blue sparks running up and down the wires from the coil pack (yeah, before today, my friend and i didn't even know what a coil pack was...!).
and there's been a lotta moisture in the air the last week or so here in socal. so, there you have it...
so, fred, you diagnosed it on the dot it sounds like! bad coilpack.
next step:
figurin out how to fix it. need to get my hands on a new coilpack... any suggestions? is this something that i could do on my own??? i know i'm not that mechanically savy, but we're talkin four wires, a coilpack and two bolts right?
anywho, any suggestions at this point are GREATLY appreciated.
greg
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Old 04-16-2003, 08:24 AM   #16
Fred Zaplitny
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Default Re: worse nitemare coming true???

Quote:
Originally posted by Takashi
any suggestions? is this something that i could do on my own??? i know i'm not that mechanically savy, but we're talkin four wires, a coilpack and two bolts right?
anywho, any suggestions at this point are GREATLY appreciated.
greg
Yep. Very easy fix. It's actually 3 bolts though (I was wrong the first time) I would replace the spark plug wires too if they didn't do that at the tune up. Just go to the dealership with about $230. That should cover the coil pack and a set of wires. Use dialectric grease on the plugs and terminals so you can get the wires off in the future if need be.

You might save some money by getting the coil pack from Subaruparts.com I think they have a parts search feature, or if you can get the part number you can look it up by that. they usually beat the hell out of any dealership prices.
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:34 AM   #17
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I don't know about anyone else but I'm a firm believer in Resetting the ECU. Let me list my reasons:

1. takes one 10mm wrench and 10sec. to detatch the terminal and 59mins and 50sec. to wait. I say do this when you are in the mood to hit up the head or want to do some simple chores.

2. with my experiance with subie is that after any kind of performance upgrade to reset the ecu. if you can see that a tune-up is a performance upgrade then there goes that idea to reset the ecu. (spark plugs and replacing filters in my book is considered an upgrade)

3. it wouldn't hurt the car and since you are not getting an accurate reading (ie. no cel, which is odd; subies are very sensetive) resetting the ecu will make the ecu relearn and remap the car to the proper settings.

4. re- fur to 1.

Serriously, I had the same thing... just reset the ecu and bam! back to new! Give it a try... can't hurt... plus I recomend going out for mexican and then trying the ecu reset. The mexican will help occupy your time. Usually does it for me... Good Luck
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:43 AM   #18
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WOW should have read futher down... that sux man

from reading that... I'd say screw that.... call the dealership and raise hell.... might get way with a free job and parts.... christ they did the tune up and didn't notice something like that..... I say just raise hell...


if that doesn't work... I'd say do it yourself... its fun and a learning experiance... coil pack from Subieparts should be pretty cheep....then I'd get new wires like what's his name said but I'd upgrade it to magnacore wires... why not upgrade to race quailty, right? well good luck... and if its all dicked up I'd even go ahead and replace the plugs "NGK plugs"... they may have gotten screw'd up in the process of killing your engine... just an idea
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deznuts05
WOW should have read futher down... that sux man

from reading that... I'd say screw that.... call the dealership and raise hell.... might get way with a free job and parts.... christ they did the tune up and didn't notice something like that..... I say just raise hell...


if that doesn't work... I'd say do it yourself... its fun and a learning experiance... coil pack from Subieparts should be pretty cheep....then I'd get new wires like what's his name said but I'd upgrade it to magnacore wires... why not upgrade to race quailty, right? well good luck... and if its all dicked up I'd even go ahead and replace the plugs "NGK plugs"... they may have gotten screw'd up in the process of killing your engine... just an idea
"what's his name" says Magnacore wires aren't going to do jack crap for you. We can sit here and argue that all day, but I'd still be right. I do agree with the NGK's though. Cheap and good.

As for raising hell with the dealer, well I still have a problem with the fact he told you he replaced the distributor cap. Either he thinks you are stupid and he's lying to you to make more money, or he is just and idiot. I think it would definitely be worth raising a little hell, they should have caught the problem.
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:31 PM   #20
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thanks everybody... is there a technical term for 'coil pack'
i did a search on it on subaruparts.com and couldn't find anything... i'm still searching but right now, nothing.

oh, and i did a search and found alot of information re: similar situations with 99s... it really seems like a coilpack problem. i'm hoping maybe it's just the wires, but we'll see.
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Zaplitny


"what's his name" says Magnacore wires aren't going to do jack crap for you. We can sit here and argue that all day, but I'd still be right. I do agree with the NGK's though. Cheap and good.
Sorry I didn't say your name Fred... my bad... I was sorta in a hurry I was in class and the lady had something important to jot down.

Magnacore wires... ahh come on... they are thicker than stock... larger guage... gots ta help something... yea I didn't really notice anything either but it sure as hell makes me beleive that I did something better than stock.


NGK irradiums would be cool... and atleast we see eye to eye on that selection...

Sorry again.. didn't mean to step on your toes.

Rudy
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Takashi
thanks everybody... is there a technical term for 'coil pack'
i did a search on it on subaruparts.com and couldn't find anything... i'm still searching but right now, nothing.
ahh try giveing them a call... Subieparts likes part#'s rather than word searches... from what I notice.

Rudy

Happy hunting
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Old 04-16-2003, 01:21 PM   #23
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first of all, let me clarify... when i asked about the distributor cap issue, my friend said that he just assumed that they replaced that becuase "that's what they do during a tune-up, right?"
so, in fact, that he was never told that they replaced the 'distributor cap'. although if there is a problem with the wires and coilpack, shouldn't that have been assesed by the individual who did the tune-up less than a month ago?

oh, and i'll try giving subaruparts a call.
thanks
greg
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Old 04-16-2003, 01:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deznuts05


Sorry I didn't say your name Fred... my bad... I was sorta in a hurry I was in class and the lady had something important to jot down.

Magnacore wires... ahh come on... they are thicker than stock... larger guage... gots ta help something... yea I didn't really notice anything either but it sure as hell makes me beleive that I did something better than stock.


NGK irradiums would be cool... and atleast we see eye to eye on that selection...

Sorry again.. didn't mean to step on your toes.

Rudy
Oh, don't worry Rudy I wasn't that offended.

Magnacore's really only will help you if you upgrade the whole ignition system (hotter coils) other than that you're going to end up with the same spark as with stock wires. Not noticeably hotter anyway.

The NGK's I like are the copper core V-Power. I change my plugs every 30-32K, so no reason to get too fancy.
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Old 04-16-2003, 01:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Takashi
first of all, let me clarify... when i asked about the distributor cap issue, my friend said that he just assumed that they replaced that becuase "that's what they do during a tune-up, right?"
so, in fact, that he was never told that they replaced the 'distributor cap'. although if there is a problem with the wires and coilpack, shouldn't that have been assesed by the individual who did the tune-up less than a month ago?

oh, and i'll try giving subaruparts a call.
thanks
greg
Actually my coil pack died (down to 3 cylinders) about a week after I noticed the hesitation, so the mechanic might not have noticed it. Is one of the terminals on the coil pack corroded? If so, he should have noticed that. Not that it's really going to matter. On a car with 80K a dead coil pack is not uncommon and they are still going to make your friend pay for it. It's definitely not a warranty item at that stage.
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