Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 5, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Archives > NASIOC Archives > STi Forum Archive

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-21-2003, 03:12 AM   #1
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default Comparatively How Fast is the STI

I was just wondering if any Japanese magazines have any articles showing comparitive lap times for the new evo, sti, 350z or rx8?

Lap times
If the STI ends up weighing 3250 it should be quite the performer. Given the stickey tires that they have lap times may be better pretty awesome. I know lap times for the e46 m3, mustang cobra and camaro ss were very similar with differences coming from how tight the track is. haven't seen proof but I imagine the rx8 and 350z to be a bit slower.

From a roll
Trap speeds of 101-104 are really good(assuming the reports are accurate), but from a roll you'll probably get slowly walked pretty easily by the mustang cobra, Sti's should be a little to a lot faster than everything else until you pay $10k more for a corvette.

This car may turn out to be the bang for the buck champ for years to come. Although, I still don't think its anywhere close to the pure performance bargain that my Camaro SS was. STI could probably beat it to sixty but the camaro would probably be fairly even at the quarter mile, and would win roll ons and lap times. Its too bad gm didn't redesign the camaro making it a bit smaller outside and a bit nicer inside. For all of its shortcommings it was and still is pretty dominate.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:27 AM   #2
HFTuRbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34388
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:
04 WRX STi
Black w/gunmetal

Exclamation Granted

Quote:
This car may turn out to be the bang for the buck champ for years to come. Although, I still don't think its anywhere close to the pure performance bargain that my Camaro SS was
The SS is no slacker to be sure. It's just not great for year `round performance. It's a sunshine car.
And yes, bang for the buck will no doubt enter magazine descriptions for the STi. It has some real *nifty* features not found on any other car in North America.
HFTuRbo is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:28 AM   #3
shirokuma
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5489
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: The Empire of Seattle
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S
AVO Orange

Default

The Evo 8 and STi 8 were taken around Tsukuba Circuit by the Puma Evo race car driver, and had times around 1min. 04sec range, with 1min03sec reached by the Spec C RA and RS versions.

Basically the only stock car that was tested faster around that track was a NSX Type R.

And personally, all three of the above cars would eat the SS alive around a decent track that wasn't all straights, and even on one that was all straights, the USDM STi may eat it alive - it's got a lot of torque under the curve coupled up to a really short geared 6-speed, and it ships on really decent track rubber.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
shirokuma is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:31 AM   #4
Jerry C
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 6182
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nevada City, CA. US.
Vehicle:
2004 STI,TALON TSI,B
SILVER, PEWTER

Default

I dont know where you Chevy guys come up with these $40K Vettes. I have a Good friend that OWNS a GM dealership. The CHEAPEST new Vette he can get, has an INVOICE OVER $46K.
I guess Chevy must have a Factory Outlet, for Chevy GUYS.
Get Real ! Jerry C
Jerry C is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:31 AM   #5
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default

Evo and STI I've heard both come with really aggressive rubber. Anyone know what the stated tread wear ratings are? Anyone know about how long they'll last for normal street driving?
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:38 AM   #6
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default

Jerry,

I know it may seem like this is untrue but I think its pretty close. Because they've been out for awhile and there is no shortage you can get a corvette for a $1k over invoice pretty easily. Invoice is just under $39k with shipping. Add a couple thousand in options and you could have one for $42-43 easily. My brother got an 02 zo6 loaded for just over $47k invoice was $46 and that is the high demand zo6.
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:41 AM   #7
HFTuRbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34388
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:
04 WRX STi
Black w/gunmetal

Default Tire Life

Quote:
Evo and STI I've heard both come with really aggressive rubber. Anyone know what the stated tread wear ratings are? Anyone know about how long they'll last for normal street driving?
Guess it's gonna depend on how one drives. I've read here approx. 10,000 miles. That doesn't mean they will last that long on all STi's.
HFTuRbo is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:43 AM   #8
bigb_9_99
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 31986
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: shelburne, ma
Vehicle:
2004 wrx sti
wrb

Default

wow u love your camaro why are u in here? first off i think it will get smoked in a 1/4 by a sti. motor trend tested a 2002 ss and got 13.5 at 107 mph 0-60 in 5.2. the sti is gonna run 13 flat to high 12's. the only thing a camaro is gonna win in is top speed. you should be saying this stuff in the evo rooms not here there it will be even.
bigb_9_99 is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:48 AM   #9
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default

Paul,
Thanks for the info.
the STI and evo definetly have a more sophisticated/better suspension design than a camaro SS has. They also weigh about 150lbs less. On a course with lots of chicanes or tight esses the rally cars might be quicker but remember. If you have a smooth track the suspension design is less important. The camaro is much wider(less load transfer) and has much wider tires. The CG is also lower on the camaro as the car is lower all around. The rally cars tend to be a little more nose heavy than the camaro(more understeer). Now tires are a different story, and they could obviously throw off the results of what I've just said. But assuming you throw some r compound tires on both I'd say the camaro should win. The physics are better.
I have a 02 Camaro SS
totally stock with the following factory options.
bilstein shocks/eibach springs
345hp kit(puts down 320-325 on a dyno jet stock)
gforce kd tires.

I'm not saying the camaro is better. Its different and it has some of its own merits. STI's are obviously sweet in more ways than one, and I'd love to have one.
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 03:56 AM   #10
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default

Bigb,

Ya the STI might still own the camaro in the quarter. Obviously the camaro is much more traction limited. Fast fords tested a camaro ss(325hp version, not the 345hp version) vs a new cobra. Camaro got a 13.15 @ 109 the cobra got a 12.8 or 12.9 @ 111. This was on a sticky drag strip. On a more dirty street the STI might win. Assuming you launch from high rpms and put the sti through that abuse. Ever see the best motoring launches of the spec c? Pretty violent shake!

From a roll,, well its fairly close but obviously the camaro has the advantage
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 04:00 AM   #11
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default

I'm totally impressed with the interior of the STI I love the blue/black contrast. Does it sound like everyone is getting them for around sticker? No chance subaru dealerships will go under msrp?
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 04:03 AM   #12
shirokuma
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5489
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: The Empire of Seattle
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S
AVO Orange

Default

Yes, but we are talking stock car setups here. Both the STi and Evo are going to look really good in magazine tests in part due to the aggressive rubber they ship with. In fact, one of the reasons the STi in Japan didn't compare as well to the Evo in the past was because of the rubber it shipped on vs. the Evo.

As far as track performance goes, there's a lot more to it than wider track and rubber. The JDM versions have very aggressive gearing compared to the Camaro. They also breath very well at upper RPM's, which is more important at a race track than anywhere else. The suspension setup and balance of those two cars will enable them to carry much more speed into the corners, and they'll be able to get on the gas much earlier than the Camaro out of the corners. And neither suffer from dire understeer - they are both neutral/power-on oversteer cars.

I do know that they are both much faster than a M3 around the tracks here, which are tighter/twistier than the tracks over there. The STi Type C Ra has been clocked around Nurburgring in 8 minutes 6 seconds. If you take some time to peruse the records there, you'll probably find that the nearest Viper/Corvette is some 20+ seconds slower than that (though they were not the best examples of their breeds). In fact, there doesn't seem to be many street cars near that time outside of TT Porches.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
shirokuma is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 04:06 AM   #13
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default

Jerry,

I thought I'd mention the price of the Camaro ss also. Mine loaded with all the options was $31.5k. Invoice was around 27.xxx and they agreed to sell it to me for $500 over invoice.
Since it was the last year there were tons of rebates. After 2000 gm finance rebate, 1000 car show rebate, 2000 gm card rebate, and 500 college grad rebate I ended up paying $22k. That is very unusual but hey, it happens.
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 04:17 AM   #14
jrummi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35248
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2002 Camaro SS
Red

Default

Paul,

Do you know much about the dynamics of how these awd systems work? I know the jdm evo has computer balanced control and the us sti has a dccd. What are the max settings on the dccd? can you run it 10% front 90% rear?

The theory of awd is obviously attractive for starts but in corners it has been as much a hinderance as a help in the past. The idea being that your front tires have only 100% of their grip and if you take some percentage of that grip and use it for acceleration than you have less than 100% grip to use for turning the car. In the past this has meant really bad understeer, especially on corner exit. my roomate has a mildly modded wrx and I believe it has a 50/50 torque split. I've driven it on track with yoko avs interm. tires. It was impressive although getting on the power coming out of a corner still induced a lot of understeer, and the car wanted to track out right off the course.
I hear the evo and STI are less prone to the underteer condition. Why? How? Is it in spring/bar setup or in the diff/torque split setup?
jrummi is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 05:35 AM   #15
JT-KGY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7852
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Alhambra, CA
Vehicle:
03 White Lan EVO 8
97 Techno-Violet BMW M3/2

Default

04 Z06 will have new suspension settings that have been
tuned in Nurburgring.... I hope GM will release Z06's best time
on Nurburgring


$46k is around the invoice price of a Z06... not regular vette...
though 02 Z06's (405hp version) prices are falling as low as
35-39k... which make it only 3-7k more than a new STi... a real
bargain, IMO...
(If you dont mind buying used cars, that is...)
JT-KGY is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 06:31 AM   #16
strangerq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13095
Join Date: Dec 2001
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jrummi
Jerry,

I thought I'd mention the price of the Camaro ss also. Mine loaded with all the options was $31.5k. Invoice was around 27.xxx and they agreed to sell it to me for $500 over invoice.
Since it was the last year there were tons of rebates. After 2000 gm finance rebate, 1000 car show rebate, 2000 gm card rebate, and 500 college grad rebate I ended up paying $22k. That is very unusual but hey, it happens.
That is a good deal you got I guess. I've already told my Camaro story on another thread so....it's not a car I would buy for any reason other than building a dedicated modded drag machine, but to each his own.
strangerq is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 08:16 AM   #17
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
shirokuma
The STi Type C Ra has been clocked around Nurburgring in 8 minutes 6 seconds. If you take some time to peruse the records there, you'll probably find that the nearest Viper/Corvette is some 20+ seconds slower than that (though they were not the best examples of their breeds). In fact, there doesn't seem to be many street cars near that time outside of TT Porches.
Where do you find these times? I know that a good many modded cars can't pull that time. E46 M3s, 911s and the NSX are still round 5 to 10 seconds off with a decent driver. Is there a collective site for more Nurburgring times?

EDIT: Nevermind, found this site. http://www.nordschleife.no/ According to these official times, even the Viper lost by a couple of seconds.
Impreza01 is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 08:51 AM   #18
strangerq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13095
Join Date: Dec 2001
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza01


Where do you find these times? I know that a good many modded cars can't pull that time. E46 M3s, 911s and the NSX are still round 5 to 10 seconds off with a decent driver. Is there a collective site for more Nurburgring times?

EDIT: Nevermind, found this site. http://www.nordschleife.no/ According to these official times, even the Viper lost by a couple of seconds.
I don't really understand the Nuburgring times either, for the sti or a lot of cars. I almost wonder if they arent changing the the track, the route or something, because the times even for the same cars vary wildly.

But here's a link to the video of an STI doing and 8/6

http://www12.tok2.com/home/EJ20K/nur_time-wm8-500.wmv
strangerq is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 11:23 AM   #19
4or2wheels
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14112
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle:
2002 wrx wagon
2010 STI DGM

Default Nuburgring times

Here's some info provided by JF. If you want to read some detailed stuff about this trackcheck out this thread. THere are 14pages with a wealth of info and great vids of JF at the Nuburgring .

Quote:
Originally posted by johnfelstead
There are two ways to time your laps.

1) full lap time
2) Bridge to Gantry (BTG)

When the track is open to the general public, you can't do a full lap, so the best way to get a comparable time is to time from the first bridge you pass under to the last gantry. This misses out the long straight where the toll booths are placed.

The time it would take to travell the distance between the gantry and bridge varies depending on how fast the car is. Most people estimate around 20-25 seconds for a fast road car.

4or2wheels is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 12:05 PM   #20
strangerq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13095
Join Date: Dec 2001
Cool

Good info. thx.
strangerq is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 04:07 PM   #21
Corn-Picker
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8679
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morgantown, WV
Vehicle:
2010 The most hated
vehicle on the internets

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma

As far as track performance goes, there's a lot more to it than wider track and rubber. The JDM versions have very aggressive gearing compared to the Camaro. They also breath very well at upper RPM's, which is more important at a race track than anywhere else. The suspension setup and balance of those two cars will enable them to carry much more speed into the corners, and they'll be able to get on the gas much earlier than the Camaro out of the corners. And neither suffer from dire understeer - they are both neutral/power-on oversteer cars.

Paul Hansen
I would also think the STi(and Evo) would seriously outbrake the Camaro SS going into turns. Those Brembos are freaking huge!

Hey Paul, any word if bleeding the brakes on the STi is a major PITA? Someone on this board (jon[in CT] if memory serves) had experience with EBA equipped Mercedes and noted that they were extrmely difficult and costly to bleed the brakes on. Something insane like 5-10 times the brake fluid resivoir was needed when changing fluids.
Corn-Picker is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 04:20 PM   #22
ANZAC_1915
Moderator
 
Member#: 456
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Redmond, WA, USA
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT
Steel Gray Metallic

Default

This is the comparo I'd like to see:

STi vs E46 M3 vs 911 C4.
ANZAC_1915 is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 06:03 PM   #23
metoo
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4764
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston
Vehicle:
2004 STi sold :(
forizzle

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
This is the comparo I'd like to see:

STi vs E46 M3 vs 911 C4.
I must agree. That would be a lovely shootout for sure.

I noticed that no one touched on the Cobra comments mentioned in the early posts. As far as 1/4 mile goes, a Cobra with a good piolot can run 12.3 @ 113 completely stock (tires and all) on 93 octane gas. From a roll, "walked-on" will not adequately describe how fast the snake will leave you. I considered buying one for a samll moment, especially since 100 extra whp was avaible for only $1200, but I would dearly miss the driving experience of my WRX. Straight line action just isn't enough for me any more. I had a '99 Z28 before the WRX and I was actually a little nervous while driving in the rain. I didn't feel comfortable doing have the moves I make in the WRX. The Z loved to swap ends. I won't claim to have been a good Z driver, but I just didn't like to push it to the edge of it's handling capabilities.
metoo is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 06:04 PM   #24
krzyss
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8365
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
2013 Ford Focus SE
Black

Default

Such test would be interesting but the prices are not comparable.

STi vs E46 M3 vs 911 C4 vs 911 GT2
31000 vs 46500 vs 116200 vs 181700

All comparos would have opening statement similar to:
The law of diminishing returns.

Krzys
krzyss is offline  
Old 04-21-2003, 06:40 PM   #25
metoo
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4764
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston
Vehicle:
2004 STi sold :(
forizzle

Default

I'm not really concerned with price here. I see 3 cars of similar power and very good handling capabilities. The only odd ball in the group is the M3 due to RWD, but even still, it should fit in very well.

Wasn't it Car and Driver that did the shoutout with the S4, 330xi, and the WRX. They called it the "unfair fight" due to the new $20,00 price difference. After all 10 categories the WRx lost to the S4 by only one point and that was only because one of the judges gave the WRX a hidiously low score for amenities.

So if a well know mag did that shoutout, an M3-Carrera4-STi article may be just around the corner.
metoo is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How fast is the "M"....in MPH Drews_WRX Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 4 02-01-2004 10:29 PM
How fast is the AT 1/4 stock?? slowtyper Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 19 08-25-2002 05:14 PM
How fast is the new evo? WR-REX Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 47 05-18-2002 03:05 PM
('93-'01) How fast is the Auto WRX? Auto WRX Impreza Forum 2 09-09-2001 03:45 AM
How fast is the WRX? Really? WR-REX General Forum Archive 20 03-30-2001 01:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.