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Old 04-21-2003, 11:02 PM   #1
urabusXRW
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Question What is the big deal?

I have got a big question for all of you out there in scooby land; What is the big deal aout the STi? I know it is faster then a regular wrx and has a few better parts, but why is it sooo much better. Until this year the Jap spec STi's had the same 2.0 letre engine. Yes they have a center mounted tach and cooler seats but its pritty much the same car. I just bought a 2003 WRX for about $24,000 fully loaded, the STi costs about $31-32,000. For $5,000 I can get the Turbo XS Stage 4 kit and i could have roughly 388 HP and around 370 or 360 torque( i forget). That puts me at lets say $31,000 with instalation for a WRX with 388HP. So i have 88 more HP than an STi without the wait and the ugly new body style. Im not being a "hater" and im not against Subaru cuz i deff just bought one, but why soo much hype?

*Yes, i know im only talking about power and not handleing but a good set of coilovers only cost $1,200.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:07 PM   #2
CBoldman
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Warranty my freind. We are also talking about the bigger 2.5 liter with the driver contolled center differential as well as huge Brembo brakes. Not to mention the handling improvements and a six speed transmission that can hold the power.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:12 PM   #3
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Do you realize how much 6-speeds go for? Plan on $6-8k for a decent one.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:12 PM   #4
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i really don't know how to respond to that but IMHO it is a good thing that you didn't buy the STI becuase it is obvious that you have no clue about the car. let me try and give you the heads up:

breaks: massive brembo brakes ( IMHO breaks are more imprtant than power)
tranny: 6speed short gears very strong vs. 5 spd
HID'S
forged internals ( i really hope you know what that is)
2.5 vs. 2.0
sport tuned suspension designed to give maximum performance
light forged rims and sticky tires
DCCD (do a search)
bigger turbo,injectors,intercooler
much nicer interior
and...

WARRANTY
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:13 PM   #5
Corn-Picker
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Default Re: What is the big deal?

Quote:
Originally posted by urabusXRW
I have got a big question for all of you out there in scooby land; What is the big deal aout the STi? I know it is faster then a regular wrx and has a few better parts, but why is it sooo much better. Until this year the Jap spec STi's had the same 2.0 letre engine. Yes they have a center mounted tach and cooler seats but its pritty much the same car. I just bought a 2003 WRX for about $24,000 fully loaded, the STi costs about $31-32,000. For $5,000 I can get the Turbo XS Stage 4 kit and i could have roughly 388 HP and around 370 or 360 torque( i forget). That puts me at lets say $31,000 with instalation for a WRX with 388HP. So i have 88 more HP than an STi without the wait and the ugly new body style. Im not being a "hater" and im not against Subaru cuz i deff just bought one, but why soo much hype?

*Yes, i know im only talking about power and not handleing but a good set of coilovers only cost $1,200.
Add up how much it cost you to get better wheels, better tires, 4 piston Brembos, DCCD, a six speed, better suspension pieces, HIDs, intercooler sprayer, etc...

The WRX and the STi are in different classes from all impressions. I do not consider my WRX a "sports car." It's a sporty car, but not a sports car, the STi is from everything I've heard and seen.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: What is the big deal?

Quote:
Originally posted by urabusXRW
I have got a big question for all of you out there in scooby land; What is the big deal aout the STi? I know it is faster then a regular wrx and has a few better parts, but why is it sooo much better. Until this year the Jap spec STi's had the same 2.0 letre engine. Yes they have a center mounted tach and cooler seats but its pritty much the same car. I just bought a 2003 WRX for about $24,000 fully loaded, the STi costs about $31-32,000. For $5,000 I can get the Turbo XS Stage 4 kit and i could have roughly 388 HP and around 370 or 360 torque( i forget). That puts me at lets say $31,000 with instalation for a WRX with 388HP. So i have 88 more HP than an STi without the wait and the ugly new body style. Im not being a "hater" and im not against Subaru cuz i deff just bought one, but why soo much hype?

*Yes, i know im only talking about power and not handleing but a good set of coilovers only cost $1,200.

Why buy an ITR when you can buy a LS and turbo it? Why people buy real Lamborghinis when they can just buy a kit car. Why don't you ask your self why you bought a WRX when you can just turbo a 2.5 RS?
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:21 PM   #7
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There is even more reasons than mentioned here plus it is just a
sweet car from the factory

There are about 1000 ways to setup coilovers wrong and only a few right. Your average car guy does not have the time, experience, tools to correctly setup coilovers.

the motor is setup properly no playing around with add-ons that fail after a year.

Do the math you cannot bring a standard WRX up to STi power and RELIABILTY for the nearly the same money

If you actually research the STi you may find your statements a bit embarrassing
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:22 PM   #8
inchoate
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I'm sure lots of people are going to chime in on this one, but i'll just give my own thoughts.

yes, you could buy a wxr and drop a big turbo and some engine management on it and make more than 300hp. and yes you could put some coilovers on a car for not that much. with the STi you get a well thought out, and well designed package where everything is designed to work with everything else. to get a standard wrx to the point where it has the (projected) reliability, power, handling, drivability and features of the STi would set you back a pretty penny. plus to the subaru faithful the introduction of the north american STi represents a fundimental change in approach by subaru to the north american market, and some of us think that deserves support. if for no other reason than to ensure that future high performance subarus come to this market.

just my 2 cents.

(oops, came in late, spent too much time typing)

(also, you didn't read the "things not to post in this forum" did you)

Last edited by inchoate; 04-21-2003 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: What is the big deal?

Quote:
Originally posted by urabusXRW
I have got a big question for all of you out there in scooby land; What is the big deal aout the STi? I know it is faster then a regular wrx and has a few better parts, but why is it sooo much better. Until this year the Jap spec STi's had the same 2.0 letre engine. Yes they have a center mounted tach and cooler seats but its pritty much the same car. I just bought a 2003 WRX for about $24,000 fully loaded, the STi costs about $31-32,000. For $5,000 I can get the Turbo XS Stage 4 kit and i could have roughly 388 HP and around 370 or 360 torque( i forget). That puts me at lets say $31,000 with instalation for a WRX with 388HP. So i have 88 more HP than an STi without the wait and the ugly new body style. Im not being a "hater" and im not against Subaru cuz i deff just bought one, but why soo much hype?

*Yes, i know im only talking about power and not handleing but a good set of coilovers only cost $1,200.
Oooo, hope you have your nomex suit on
Many people on this board (including myself) "lobbied" SOA for them to bring over a WRX. When they did it we could hardly believe it happened. It also proved to be one of the best and fastest cars for the $$. Now when there were rumors that the Sti was coming (I've kinda knew about it for a long time..) it was a pure gift from SOA. The fact that they are giving us the most powerful Sti is simply ising on the cake. What am I getting at...

A 300 HP, 300 pounds torque, great handling car is not that easy to come by from the FACTORY. (think warranty too!) Personally, I like looking at cars of how they were built in factory condition. (I'm not into huge wings and fancy body kits) Some of the greatest factory cars (within reason) I think of first is the M3 & 911's. From the factory these cars come with the best of engines and handling characteristics. I believe the STi has now come into this elite league. IMHO, highly tuned cars are fun yet not as reliable. (This includes modded M3 and 911's too)

I simply love the fact that SOA is bringing us a car that right from the factory will embarass "performance" cars that are at least twice its price.

Will I mod my Sti? Very very little. The above specs you mention seem great and would be a blast. However many people make mistakes when modding cars. Mod order: Tires, Brakes, suspension, engine.... It would be very unwise to make engine mods without upgrading brakes and suspension and the ever important tires. Modding a car is fun but doing it right is usually takes more time and $$.
Using the example you have above, 388Hp and lots of torque; you better start somehwere else.
Good brake kit: $1500,
Tires: $750,
Suspension kit: $1500-2000
Roll cage: $1000+
Race seat and harnesses: $600+
Transmission: $$$$$ ???

Things quickly add up. The prices above are just my experiences with certain mods. I'll save all the time and expense and get the Sti stock with a warranty

Good Luck!


Cheers,

Davis
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:32 PM   #10
JayGold
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You obviously have not done any homework, nor viewed any of the info on this forum.

The USDM STi is a 2.5L, not a 2.0L. Currently the most powerful production 4 banger on the market. 6-speed virtually indestructable powertrain, larger axles and diffs/center controlled diff, not a glass 5-speed which shears gears with a TXS Stage 4 (I know I have the stage 4 power).
You happen to not be comparing power #'s correctly. Regardless, the USDM STi is bullet proof, as far as we know, its still brand new to this country. Stage 4 wrx's must have great tuning to be reliable, a strong set of gears to actually put power to the ground and make it last for 30,000mi or more. You are not thinking of the additional costs for a wrx to be competitive. A STi 6-speed will run you minimally $5,800 installed, that does not include the TXS Stage 4 power package.
The STi had many, many more additional parts which make it a high end all around racing vehicle...the wrx does not even come close, it needs alot of work, time and money...more then a new STi.
Just to give you an idea, I have spent over $15,000 in aftermarket parts on my wrx and still have yet to complete the suspension, drivetrain, and internals to make it as reliable as the USDM STi is.
A good set of coilovers is not enough. Do you actually know what is happening to the dynamics of the suspension when bolting up your $1500 coilovers. Many, many hours have gone into the fabrication and collaberation of correct parts to make the STi handle exceedingly well in all driving situtations. You need to do your homework, its not just a bolt up and see if it works guessing game.

I will confirm that more power potential is CURRENTLY capable with the wrx then the STi. One item most new STi purchasers may have overlooked is the electronically controlled throttlebody. Swapping in new turbo's and parts will prove difficult as the ECU will sense any changes and react by slapping the throttle body closed and popping open the wastegate.
The US is the only country to get this new STi motor and ECU, the aftermarket, in regards to developing a "chip" to over-ride the safety feature will prove very difficult and time consuming. Depending on demand, well we'll just have to see.
I think there will be some new dissatisfied potential STi tuners out there.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:38 PM   #11
Janq
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I might forget an item or two but the following are the things that differentiate an STi from a regular WRX;

Warranty, Brembo brakes (big in back & BIGGER Up front), 2.5liter block with lots of NA low end torque, warranty, no-pre cat turbo, 6 speed trans, stiffer/better/tighter/lower STi suspension equipment, lightened rear window glass, warranty, full body kit, 17" forged BBS rims, Bridgestone Potenza summer tires, STi rear can (with a big ol' hole!), rear wing, warranty, larger sized STi TMIC, larger sized air inlet (hood scoop), driver adjustable HID's, warranty, driver adjustable 'DCCD' system to modulate power transfer from front to rear axle, front 'SureTrac' limited slip diff, rear mechanical diff, warranty, center viscous diff, manual IC water spray unit, 300 factory HP, 300 lb/ft torque, warranty, race seats, folding side view mirrors, pink STi logos, much street cred & respect, own EVO's, and all of this with a Subaru backed factory warranty!

Yeah, you can buy this and that some other crap.
But figure in the cost of shipping plus your time (or worst someone elses) time to install the upgrades and the _loss_ in value you are taking against the stock parts removed as well as the reduction n the overall value (resale) of your now 'modded' WRX and add on the actual purchase cost of your accesories and now you've spent nearly twice the $8K difference between the WRX and the STi...and all you have is an STi wanna-be vehicle.

Worst, you have no guarantee any of these add-ons are going to work together properly/optimally or surety that they are durable and will last. The STi has all the right and necessary go-fast goodies installed at once from one source and covered by a national support network of 600+ service centers.
So when you're taing a trip to Daytona Beach or headed to Vermont to ski you can be sure that if your CEL light flicks on there will be a qualified and knowledgeable Subi tech nearby to support your claim.
I don't know of any aftermarket suppliers that can match or better that kind of customer security.

Priced at only $8K over a stock '04 WRX, the STi is a good deal.

The real question is whether or not one can handle the additional $8K in their auto budget.

- Janq


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Old 04-22-2003, 12:15 AM   #12
Jon [in CT]
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Default Re: What is the big deal?

Quote:
Originally posted by urabusXRW
I just bought a 2003 WRX for about $24,000 fully loaded, the STi costs about $31-32,000. For $5,000 I can get the Turbo XS Stage 4 kit and i could have roughly 388 HP and around 370 or 360 torque( i forget). That puts me at lets say $31,000 with instalation for a WRX with 388HP. So i have 88 more HP than an STi without the wait and the ugly new body style. Im not being a "hater" and im not against Subaru cuz i deff just bought one, but why soo much hype?

*Yes, i know im only talking about power and not handleing but a good set of coilovers only cost $1,200.
Oh geez, you've really wasted YOUR money, urabusXRW. Ya shoulda bought a 93 Impreza for about $500. Then you coulda dropped in a used EJ25 engine, turbocharged it, yada, yada, yada.
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:45 AM   #13
Janq
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Default Re: Re: What is the big deal?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
Oh geez, you've really wasted YOUR money, urabusXRW. Ya shoulda bought a 93 Impreza for about $500. Then you coulda dropped in a used EJ25 engine, turbocharged it, yada, yada, yada.
...or maybe even an all mighty '4G63' from a gold standard Dodge 'Colt' and with just a fist full of dollars *poof* have a Talon/Eclipse like motor and then for a few dollars more *poof* have an EVO like motor that runs 11's with stock internals and produces so much torque that the ground literally ripples underneath its mighty wheels.

Oh, wait...wrong thread.

- Janq
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: What is the big deal?

Quote:
Originally posted by urabusXRW
I have got a big question for all of you out there in scooby land; What is the big deal aout the STi? I know it is faster then a regular wrx and has a few better parts, but why is it sooo much better. Until this year the Jap spec STi's had the same 2.0 letre engine. Yes they have a center mounted tach and cooler seats but its pritty much the same car. I just bought a 2003 WRX for about $24,000 fully loaded, the STi costs about $31-32,000. For $5,000 I can get the Turbo XS Stage 4 kit and i could have roughly 388 HP and around 370 or 360 torque( i forget). That puts me at lets say $31,000 with instalation for a WRX with 388HP. So i have 88 more HP than an STi without the wait and the ugly new body style. Im not being a "hater" and im not against Subaru cuz i deff just bought one, but why soo much hype?

*Yes, i know im only talking about power and not handleing but a good set of coilovers only cost $1,200.
I'm not even going to add anything because everything has already been covered. I got 2 words for you urabus....EDUCATE-THYSELF. This thread is a start...
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Old 04-22-2003, 09:21 AM   #15
jaypride
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WRX - $25k
Wheels - $3k
Extended warranty - $1200
6spd tranny - $3k
STI - Priceless
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Old 04-22-2003, 10:16 AM   #16
BenHayat
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Check this pdf. All the bold ones are new in STi.
http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/p...G_Rev41403.pdf

..Ben
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:29 PM   #17
Janq
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaypride
WRX - $25k
Wheels - $3k
Extended warranty - $1200
6spd tranny - $3k
STI - Priceless
Also, according to the Brembo website the brakes are $2,595 just for the front!
And that's not incluing shipping and installation.

Mo' Money, Mo' Money, Mo' Money...

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Old 04-22-2003, 12:52 PM   #18
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Old 04-22-2003, 01:34 PM   #19
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The big deal is...probably as soon as you got your 2003 sonic yellow WRX, subaru unveiled the STi!

...i don't know if anyone else noticed that most people that have anything bad to say about the STi just recently bought a 2003 WRX and got stuck with it...just enjoy it until the next great one comes!
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Old 04-22-2003, 01:45 PM   #20
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For me, it has to do with the synergy of all of the components that go into a car. I've pondered for a year now what to do, if anything, to my car in terms of mods. A piece here and there from different vendors, many of whom sell other people's stuff to begin with. You end up with a car that, in fact, isn't necessarily built with all of its parts working together as well as possible. When this car was designed and built, it was done with each component (suspension, tranny, engine, etc.) working together to make the car drive consistently. With the first situation, you're more likely to end up with a car that's less than the sum of its parts. With the STi, the whole of the car is greater than the sum of its parts because of the synergy that exists between everything.

Just my $.02.
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Old 04-22-2003, 01:51 PM   #21
Janq
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^^ What he said!

- Janq
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Old 04-22-2003, 05:05 PM   #22
HFTuRbo
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Quote:
STi costs about $31-32,000. For $5,000 I can get the Turbo XS Stage 4 kit and i could have roughly 388 HP and around 370 or 360 torque( i forget). That puts me at lets say $31,000 with instalation for a WRX with 388HP. So i have 88 more HP than an STi without the wait
If you haven't already, do all of this stuff to your car! Sheesh!!
The group above and throughout this forum have already explained where the STi excels.
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