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Old 04-24-2003, 11:20 AM   #1
geezer902
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Just for the sake of clarity: G35 coupe is still at MSRP. The first discount posted on freshalloy was in Fla about a month ago and was $400 off. (Release was in October.) So: on a desirable car produced in small numbers, it can take awhile for the market to saturate.
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:25 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by geezer902
Just for the sake of clarity: G35 coupe is still at MSRP. The first discount posted on freshalloy was in Fla about a month ago and was $400 off. (Release was in October.) So: on a desirable car produced in small numbers, it can take awhile for the market to saturate.
The Z was similar, as was the G35 sedan. Now they're selling at reasonable discounts to MSRP, as the coupe will in several months, once the initial preorders and hot buyers are satisfied. The situation will be similar with the accord V6 manual coupe, just because there are less of the cars to go around. Eventually, the production either passes the demand and cars sit on lots, or it stays below the demand and cars stay around MSRP.
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:30 AM   #3
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Agree with all of u!! And yes, G35 coupe is stil riding "I am rare and still not available everywhere" train.. soon it will be sitting in the lot @ discount...
Get your STi @ MSRP now and enjoy them NOW.. If u willing to wait a year or more, u will PROBABLY save a $1000 or so and get a 2nd year production car (without year year production car bugs, if any exist)...
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:39 PM   #4
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That's interesting about what you guys are saying about the G35 Coupe. Prior to putting down my deposit for the STi back in January, I was about 2 weeks away from getting my ordered G35 Coupe. I had a fully loaded 6speed and it was for $1,000 under MSRP. So for those that say that the G36 Coupe can't be had for under MSRP now need to go out and look some more since I was able to get one under MSRP back in October when I ordered mine.
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Old 04-24-2003, 02:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by RedBean
That's interesting about what you guys are saying about the G35 Coupe. Prior to putting down my deposit for the STi back in January, I was about 2 weeks away from getting my ordered G35 Coupe. I had a fully loaded 6speed and it was for $1,000 under MSRP. So for those that say that the G36 Coupe can't be had for under MSRP now need to go out and look some more since I was able to get one under MSRP back in October when I ordered mine.
Yep...G35 Coupes and Sedans can be found on discount off MSRP if you look hard enough. In my area (MD/DC/VA) dealers are making deals against inventory.
At Edmunds.com there is a long thread on this subject.

Also, take a look at a thread that popped recently at i-club on the STi vs. G35 Coupe debate.

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Old 04-24-2003, 02:31 PM   #6
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where is sti vs g35 link? wrong thread..
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Old 04-24-2003, 07:01 PM   #7
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Thanks for the link to the STi vs. G35 thread. It's the best discussion I've seen on the topic, and your comparison of the two is exactly why I'm confused on the two cars, Janq. Well said.

The notion of available discounts on the coupe is also interesting. This is the first place I've heard people claim discounts are available, or widely available. Sedans are sitting on the lots, I guess, but the coupe is still flying out. In any case, it's clear that eventually any mass-produced car runs out of committed buyers and then the discounts come into play. Soooo .... maybe the coupe will be closer to the STi in price when I've had a chance to drive the Soob, and then I really will be confused!
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Old 04-24-2003, 08:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Janq


...
As for MBWorld, I'm not a Merc man but my wife is.
...

- Janq
Ummm... no offense, but your wife is a man?

At least the "we need to buy this really fast car" discussions might be easier...



kenzo
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Old 04-24-2003, 08:29 PM   #9
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I am inclined towards G35 after I read that thread..
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by geezer902
Thanks for the link to the STi vs. G35 thread. It's the best discussion I've seen on the topic, and your comparison of the two is exactly why I'm confused on the two cars, Janq. Well said.

The notion of available discounts on the coupe is also interesting. This is the first place I've heard people claim discounts are available, or widely available. Sedans are sitting on the lots, I guess, but the coupe is still flying out. In any case, it's clear that eventually any mass-produced car runs out of committed buyers and then the discounts come into play. Soooo .... maybe the coupe will be closer to the STi in price when I've had a chance to drive the Soob, and then I really will be confused!
Dude you're welcome.

Honestly though, I never meant to confuse you or sway folks away from the STi. I'm a big Subie fan and love the 'concept' of the STi package.

I just wanted to point out the not immediately obvious parallels between these two options. Everyone knows about the EVO option which has beaten to death. The G35 Coupe (and Sedan too) at first blush might seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum. But a look beyond the covers reveals that the STi and G35 are like brothers from the same daddy but different momma's.

Different approach, very similar end results.

For what it's worth, I too am at this point very torn.
Any given day I vascillate back and forth between the two.

I'll let you know what happens in May or June after I get some butt time in an STi...

- Janq
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:08 AM   #11
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If u think STi interior is nicer than G35s then u smoking some serious krak, u do have excellent valid points elsewhere..
Sti is cheaper and that would be my main advantage if I pick it over G35...
For a few grand I plan to add custom DVD/MP3/NAV (Alpine i-900) unit and some great amps and speakers..
So for around $36 grand I will have a sound system that is topping anything else out there, car that outperformce most cars on the road, and 4 wheel drive..
With G35 it would cost me a lot more, of course, I would get luxury, class, etc..

Last edited by amdmaxx; 04-25-2003 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:26 AM   #12
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I hate to jump in here, but the G35/350Z and the Evo/STi are comparable at one end of the spectrum, but not at the other end, involvement.

Having driven both the 350Z and the STi 8, there is basically no way to say they are close to each other in the one area that doesn't show up on paper - what is communicated to your butt/fingertips/backside/soul. The 350Z, and I'm quite sure, the G35 coupe are studies in drive isolation. They are quick, they do perform, but you are so isolated from that task. For some people, that's a bonus, it's a more relaxing drive that way.

The STi and the Evo are second-skin cars. You feel everything that is going on, for better or worse. Admittedly, they aren't quite as rough on you as a Viper or a shifter kart, but there's no way to hide the fact that you will be involved when driving these cars.

Both ends definitely have their strengths, but they go about their tasks in such different ways that I personally wouldn't have any difficulty in making a decision towards which to buy. If the 350Z/G35 Coupe would make me happy, I wouldn't touch the STi. And if the STi puts a huge grin on my face, the 350Z/G35 Coupe won't match up to it's raw sports appeal.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:21 AM   #13
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I'll have to disagree with Paul on the interface and "feel" issue.
I haven't driven the STi but have driven the EVO, which I'm sure compares favorably to the STi as it it better than the WRX.
In terms of street driving which is where the vast majority of us will drive these cars, the Z has an excellent feel. The balance between the pedals, wheel, and driver is one of control without undue road imperfections constantly reminding you that your commuting on your way to work.
Some people like to feel every pebble while driving. That may serve the racer well, but on public roads on a daily basis that's not going to cut it.

The Z/G35 are designed more along the lines of classic RWD sportscars with style and class, but brought to you with much lower than expected pricing.
The STi/EVO are minimalist design excercises with a large dose of mechanical goodies which appeals more to gear-heads and technical minded drivers.
It's a matter of choice.

These cars can be compared because they offer drivers a choice beyond the boring competence of and Accord or Camry. The STi, Z, G35, EVO, etc...
have different drive layouts but they attempt to do the same thing which is appeal to a driver that is more enthusiastic about why he/she gets into a car in the first place. Those of us who enjoy attempting to control these concoctions of metal, plastic, leather, and space age materials want more than mundane transport. In that sense, these "sport" cars appeal to us and fall into a comparable category.

They do have "feel" but it's a personal choice as to which has the type of fell you're looking for. The Z/G35 appeal to more of my senses than the STi/EVO and that's what makes it a difficult choice when you're spending that kind of money. But, you're right, there is a spectrum or range which these sports cars belong in. However, I disagree that the spectrum is that wide.
There are more driver related similarities than merely looking at the obvious
2 vs. 4 doors, but I know that you know that.

T
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by kenzo


Ummm... no offense, but your wife is a man?

At least the "we need to buy this really fast car" discussions might be easier...



kenzo
Obviously you misunderstood fool!

It reads: My wife is a Merc....man.

ie- he's married to his Mercedes Benz.
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:20 PM   #15
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Thumbs down

The G35 coupe may be different, since I have not driven it.

But after driving the G35 sedan, I was very disappointed. The steering was too light and overboosted, which took away all the pleasure from driving it. It was very precise, however.

I drove the G35 sedan with and without the sport package. But the "sport package" does nothing other than tighten up the suspension a bit and add performance tires...does nothing for the steering.

The only area where the G35 stood out was in its RWD feel and accelerative prowess.

As a "sports-car", I would certainly look elsewhere. JMHO.
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:33 PM   #16
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Coupe is quite more sporty..
And FX45 is the sportiest of them all, how ironic..
Rides on 21 inch wheels.. People saying ride is firmer than M3s..
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:36 PM   #17
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I prefer the Z over the G35 coupe.

T
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:38 PM   #18
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up to u, I am vise versa..
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by amdmaxx
up to u, I am vise versa..
Absolutely. No disrespect at all. The G is a fine automobile.
It's great to have all these great choices. I'm still waffling between a few cars myself. The sport side; Z, EVO, WRX, STi...or the sedan side; 325i, A4, Acura TSX. The G35 sedan is awesome but a bit big and it feels somewhat heavy, but its' the seats that I can't get comfortable in.

T
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Old 04-25-2003, 01:06 PM   #20
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2004 Type S gonna be 300 hp...
2005 BMW 330 will become 337 (3.7 V8 - 275 Hp)
By then I will have a lot of miles on my G35 or Sti..
just adding fuel to the fire..
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Old 04-25-2003, 01:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by akoshy
The G35 coupe may be different, since I have not driven it.

But after driving the G35 sedan, I was very disappointed. The steering was too light and overboosted, which took away all the pleasure from driving it. It was very precise, however.

I drove the G35 sedan with and without the sport package. But the "sport package" does nothing other than tighten up the suspension a bit and add performance tires...does nothing for the steering.

The only area where the G35 stood out was in its RWD feel and accelerative prowess.

As a "sports-car", I would certainly look elsewhere. JMHO.
I have'nt had the pleasure yet to try out either, Coupe or Sedan, and will be doing so this weekened if not later today.
Further the best Impreza I have had extended seat time in is a series of showroom stock WRX's on factory tires. The last Nissan/Inifiniti products to impress me were the early '90's Sentra 'R' and the '88-91 Q45 & Q45i (sport tuned).

With all due respect to Akoshy & Paul, your opinions on the Z, G35 Coupe & Sedan are completely out of synch with the reviews of the popular and equally respected automotive press.

Now I'm not saying they are the best thing since sliced bread nor am I saying either is an STi or EVo 'Hunter/Killer'. They were not intended for that purpose and thats absolutely obvious.

But its quite difficult to to take your analysis in stride with folks like Autoweek, Automobile and C&D who say these specimens are great performers and excellent/best overall values in their respective classes.
In fact it was the sedan that recently beat out the almighty BMW 3 _and_ 5-Series to become one of C&D's "Top 10 Cars of the Year"! Thats a car giving up 20 HP to the Z & G35 Coupe. Further, the Z won the same accolade.
Now keep in mind were talking the BMW which the whole world C&D loves/loved for decades. You just can't take that lightly.
In fact it was just last month that C&D commented the G35 Coupe rides & drives better and faster than the Z.

Paul you have had the extreme adavantage to have lots of track time in many various bleeding edge vehicles due to your profession and close proximity to the manufacturers. Again, I am not doubting your opinion so much as I am stymied but the seeming opposition in 'professional' opinions on these vehicles.

The rest of us less/under educated & disadvantaged folks will be best suited to choose between STi, EVO and G35 when the STi is stateside and on our local mean streets. But on paper as you noted they sure do 'seem' close. It seems the G is 8/10ths to the EVO & STi's maximums.
Oddly the Z is consitently receiving worst reveiws overall then the G35 Series' as commonly attributed to the longer wheelbase of the G35 Coupe & Sedan although the Coupe weighs slightly more and is down 7HP while the sedan gives up 20.

One thing I can agree with you both on 100% (without driving any of these vehicles) is that there is no substitute for AWD when push/pulling through twisties at speed. RWD is fun for getting loose if enough power is there and trac. ctrl. is kept out of the way.

Paul I wonder do you do any testing for 'ApexJapan' that involves the drivers expereince outside of the track?
Even if I were at the track or auto-x all weekend every weekend (not possible!) the STi/G35 Coupe would still spend 90+% of its time on the streets & highway. In my area (MD/DC/VA) streets tend to be long & straight with gentle curves though often pocked with potholes or patched over tele-com/utility line cuts and speed bumps. Our highways are equally maintained and tend to be straight with the exception of various off ramps and the notorious 'RaceTrack' of 95 S in MD. between Rockville (270 S) and College Park (RT. 1). Even the 'backroads' are under maintained and/or clogged with motorcyclists, horse trailers, retirees in '03 Thunderbirds or other enthusiasts looking for a 60 minute escape blitz.

Speaking only for myself I know that no matter how hard I try I'll never be able to safely operate the STi at 10/10ths on local biways & streets, nor would or should I ever try. I live an hour one way from Summit Point (WV) and about 1.5 hrs. from VIR (So. VA). Auto-X's are held throughout the region and I too have had seat time in karts including shifters (at Summit Point) and I live 15 minutes from the regions only indoor pro-karting facility (All Sports Gran Prix).

So with that said I ask you both, which truly is 'better/best'?
A vehicle that's 10/10ths but will only see the upper 4/10ths of its ability 10% of the time (on a track). Or a vehicle thats at best 8/10ths of the prior but can use and see 9/10ths of its abilty 90% of the time (on the road).

Thank you equally for your honest & frank opinions and input, as they are both very much appreciated.

I can't wait to see the STi and put her rubber to the road.

- Janq
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Old 04-25-2003, 01:57 PM   #22
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Paul writes some excellent articles, and I for one am more inclined to respect his words that a magazine. Only because I work for a motorsports magazine and I can assure you that what is written DOES correspond with who advertises. If Nissan/Infiniti is a big advertiser, you can bet Road and Track, Car and Driver etc will NOT hack on that car very much. It's just too hard to survive in the periodical world without every dollar of advertising.

That said, I've read numerous shirokuma posts, and he HAS mentioned many non-track days. I can recall accounts of canyon runs with a B4 Legacy and an STi, city driving, and stretches bewteen cities where he opened it up on some cool cars.

In the end I can't help but feel that Paul still has a passion for these cars. He's really into the good and the bad, and reports it as such. Sometimes I think the editors of the big mags have lost that "drive". (sorry for the bad pun)

"Munen" Mako
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Old 04-25-2003, 02:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Janq
So with that said I ask you both, which truly is 'better/best'?
A vehicle that's 10/10ths but will only see the upper 4/10ths of its ability 10% of the time (on a track). Or a vehicle thats at best 8/10ths of the prior but can use and see 9/10ths of its abilty 90% of the time (on the road).
That is not a realistic situation. The STi/EVO will still out perform a Z/G35 on a potholed street that you drive every day. Even if you don't make it to the track, the STi/EVO will be the better performer all the time.

Iif you are talking about driver experience(comfort, car feel), that will change under those difference circumstances, but the driving experience is a very subjective thing.

So I don't think you can quantify how the G35/Z is going to be "better" on normal streets, as you did. The only thing you can quantify is that the STi/EVO will be faster anytime, anywhere.

-BrianK
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Old 04-25-2003, 02:23 PM   #24
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Only because I work for a motorsports magazine and I can assure you that what is written DOES correspond with who advertises.
*********

What magizine do you work for? The big mags have advertisers and MANY times the biggest advertisers get smacked down in articles. Maybe the mag you work for has to accept corporate money cause it's small but the articles in the mags don't bare out the idea that reviews are made better for cash.
Cars that get negative reviews STILL advertise. You don't see them pulling ads for bad reviews.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

T
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Old 04-25-2003, 02:35 PM   #25
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Mako,

I agree with you on most of your points, and thats why I'm a bit mystified.

I too am confident that marketing dollars might 'sway' an editor as in any industry but I can't say it happens absolutely or often.
As for Paul I had never heard of him or ApexJapan until joining this group. Though I have not been all that much in to JDM tuner cars either. But that's just me. I can't say I went back in time though and read his posts prior to my membership. I only have so much time.
After reading a few of his interesting posts though I did go to the Apex site to read his reviews which I also liked & enjoyed. Although I can't argue or concur with any of them as there is no B4 or S202 or GT-R or Spec C RA or Aussie built monster Miata's available in my metropolitan area.

But all in all I'm not doubting his opinion in as much that I'm curious about the chasm in professional opinion. I'm only asking because I would like to better understand as a consumer. I'm not meaning to flame or poke a stick in a hornets nest (i.e. the 'Dodge Colt' debacle of recent).

Not only the printed press but also the folks of 'MotorWeek' a very popular and well repected automotive review program based here in Owings Mill, MD (near my hometown) that I have been watching faithfully since the late '70's and who almost always match my own opinion as well as the popular press report the G35 Coupe as being "One of the most impressive new sport sedans to come along in a long time". They love the Sedan too and in fact gave the Z their coveted "Drivers Choice Award" to boot.
Say what you will about me and my own opinions but the boys at MotorWeek aren't slouches, nor is Csaba Csere or David E. Davis & Karen Jennings or most of the automotive press.

No one is doubting anyone's passion here or calling folks out.
Nor has anyone said the G35 is better or for that matter equal to the STi. But many of us verbal and silent are thinking the same thing. The STi costs 'X' and the G35 Coupe costs 'X' plus a a grand or less depending on options.

The big question on folks minds & tongues are which of the two is the best overall value for long term ownership & usable fun?

- Janq
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