Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-03-2003, 03:44 PM   #1
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Unhappy SS lines - leak from hard line after install - help!

Well, after fighting with one of the nuts on the hard line and mangling it up pretty bad, when I finally connected up the Stoptech SS lines it's leaking brake fluid from where the hard line mates with the SS line.

It's only a real slow leak with the car at rest, but when I bled the brakes I noticed a small puddle under this connection.

Any options, besides a new hard line install at the dealer? Even though the connecting area is damp from brake fluid, I was thinking I would hit it with some very fast drying strong epoxy (hopefully something that can resist heat and brake fluid) & that might seal it down. But I'm sitting here stuck at home and can't reach an auto parts store.

Any thoughts? I would REALLY appreciate any help...
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2003, 04:24 PM   #2
teiva-boy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22825
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Teflon tape?
teiva-boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2003, 06:53 PM   #3
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

On the screws? The leak is actually coming from where the line mates in with the nut. I think maybe it got monkeyed up & the line's not attached to the nut very well anymore
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2003, 07:00 PM   #4
teiva-boy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22825
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Well in that case, I dont know.. You dont though have to get a new hardline. You could cut off that section, and reflare it and rethread it. I think a brake shop could do it.
teiva-boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2003, 11:57 PM   #5
Legacy777
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4800
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy & 97 OBS
AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap

Default

The brake lines are sealed by a compression fitting.

The flared end usually doesn't get messed up. However the brass fitting that seals against it may be off slightly. It sounds like the SS line is the one that may be not correct. You can try smoothing out the flared end with some emry paper. Also look at the compression fitting and check it to make sure it's not scratched up. I had a MC that was like this......short of pulling the compression fitting out and redoing it.....not much I could do.
Legacy777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 10:28 AM   #6
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
The brake lines are sealed by a compression fitting.

The flared end usually doesn't get messed up. However the brass fitting that seals against it may be off slightly. It sounds like the SS line is the one that may be not correct. You can try smoothing out the flared end with some emry paper. Also look at the compression fitting and check it to make sure it's not scratched up. I had a MC that was like this......short of pulling the compression fitting out and redoing it.....not much I could do.
I think getting a new nut / compression fitting (if they are one in the same) is my only solution now. I'm thinking a brake shop can just cut off the nut, and reinstall another one on the hard line end... or at least that's my plan now. Thanks,
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 11:54 AM   #7
Peaty
Techno Sapien
Moderator
 
Member#: 449
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2010 Legacy 3.6R Lim
Azurite Blue Pearl

Default

I don't think flair nut and compression fittings are the same thing. A compression fitting involves a gland (or sleeve) you slide over the tube after the end is cut off, a flair nut type involves flairing out the end and there is a male mating face on the other side. It could be leaking for a couple of reasons.

It could be not tight enough or possibly there is some crap on the face that isn't letting it get a good seal. Or the treads are cocked and it's not sealing properly. Have you tried taking it apart and looking at the face of each side? I think brake line flairs are double backed flairs, not something you can do w/ a normal flair nut tool. You might have to get a whole new line rather than have it cut back and re-flaired
Peaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 12:07 PM   #8
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Peaty
I don't think flair nut and compression fittings are the same thing. A compression fitting involves a gland (or sleeve) you slide over the tube after the end is cut off, a flair nut type involves flairing out the end and there is a male mating face on the other side. It could be leaking for a couple of reasons.

It could be not tight enough or possibly there is some crap on the face that isn't letting it get a good seal. Or the treads are cocked and it's not sealing properly. Have you tried taking it apart and looking at the face of each side? I think brake line flairs are double backed flairs, not something you can do w/ a normal flair nut tool. You might have to get a whole new line rather than have it cut back and re-flaired
Peaty!

I wish my digital camera had been delivered and I could show you pics....

Lemme see if I can describe... the flare got all gouged when I was taking it off (I finally resorted to heat to loosen it up). So I've got a pretty well messed up nut.... I screw it into the new SS lines as tight as it'll go. But, the flare now drip-leaks from the very bottom - the section where the hard line and nut join up. I assume this means that the hard line and the flare nut are not solidly connected.

At this stage, I'll have it re-ended or a new hard line run - whatever will fix it (I'm going to a driving school next weekend and just want it 100%). I'd like to avoid a trip to the dealer, since I don't think they're that great & they can't usually get me in very quick. Would a brake shop be able to handle this??

Thanks.
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 12:34 PM   #9
Peaty
Techno Sapien
Moderator
 
Member#: 449
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2010 Legacy 3.6R Lim
Azurite Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
At this stage, I'll have it re-ended or a new hard line run - whatever will fix it (I'm going to a driving school next weekend and just want it 100%). I'd like to avoid a trip to the dealer, since I don't think they're that great & they can't usually get me in very quick. Would a brake shop be able to handle this??
Your best bet may be to get a new hard line from some on line place and have it shipped. A good brake shop may be able to bend and make you a whole new line, I don't know maybe someone has more experience in this area.

I'm not sure how you did the swap but I have a limited amount of info here:

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...&threadid=1069

When you say the flair got messed up do you mean the nut that pushes in the flair or the flair on hard line end is FUBAR? If it's the line flair itself then you are gonna need another line I guess.

If it were me I'd first call around to a good brake shop and ask if they can bend you a new line or repair it. Or check with an on line vendor. Jamie may be able to help you out, getting something fast.

Good luck let us know what you end up doing.
Peaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 01:50 PM   #10
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Peaty
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...&threadid=1069

When you say the flair got messed up do you mean the nut that pushes in the flair or the flair on hard line end is FUBAR? If it's the line flair itself then you are gonna need another line I guess.

If it were me I'd first call around to a good brake shop and ask if they can bend you a new line or repair it. Or check with an on line vendor. Jamie may be able to help you out, getting something fast.
That writeup looks good, but my problem would have probably happened even if I had read it before... argh! to me for trying to DIY this and having problems (although I had no problems with the other rear line, probably because I learned from my mistakes (and maybe because the Liquid Wrench had several hours to sit while I was fighting with the first line)...

By what's FUBAR'd, I mean the flare nut that is attached to the end of the hard line itself (the part you grab with the flare nut wrench to undo it). I'd think that they could cut it off and install another one, but I also think the line would have to be dry, which is probably another PITA on their part.

I'm going to call around brake shops Monday; I can't imagine anyone who answers the phone at a shop is going to understand my question, but we'll see. I'll update this thread so people can learn a little more...
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 03:06 PM   #11
Legacy777
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4800
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy & 97 OBS
AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap

Default

You guys are getting things mixed up.

The hard line that is connected to the car has the flare. Behind that flare is a nut/fitting that screws into a rubber or SS line.

From your post, that nut/fitting is what is fubard.....correct?

The actual inner portion of the flare or brake line is not messed up......is this correct or not?

The rubber or SS line is what has the compression fitting in it. That is what needs to be replaced or looked at.

For the most part the brass compression fitting is softer then the hard line and will form a seal.

Do you have your old rubber lines? If so, put it back on and see if it still leaks. If it doesn't, you found your problem. Call the vendor you got the lines from and tell them one of the lines has a bad compression fitting and you would like a replacement. Or contact the manufacturer directly.
Legacy777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 04:09 PM   #12
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

Thanks for all the assistance guys....

Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
You guys are getting things mixed up.

The hard line that is connected to the car has the flare. Behind that flare is a nut/fitting that screws into a rubber or SS line.

From your post, that nut/fitting is what is fubard.....correct?
Yes, I think. The leak appears to be from that nut/fitting.

Quote:

The actual inner portion of the flare or brake line is not messed up......is this correct or not?
Correct. Brake fluid is still flowing thru the lines (because I bled that corner and fluid did flow through to the bleed screw). But still had that annoying leak from the fitting.

Quote:

The rubber or SS line is what has the compression fitting in it. That is what needs to be replaced or looked at.

For the most part the brass compression fitting is softer then the hard line and will form a seal.

Do you have your old rubber lines? If so, put it back on and see if it still leaks. If it doesn't, you found your problem. Call the vendor you got the lines from and tell them one of the lines has a bad compression fitting and you would like a replacement. Or contact the manufacturer directly.
Uhh.... yes and no. I really messed up that rubber line in the process of getting it off, but I do have the rubber line from the other side.

Maybe I will swap the new SS line for the old rubber line (or maybe use one of my other SS lines). But I do think the problem is on the hard line side. I really fought with that nut and think I killed something in the process...
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 04:18 PM   #13
Peaty
Techno Sapien
Moderator
 
Member#: 449
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2010 Legacy 3.6R Lim
Azurite Blue Pearl

Default

That's what I was trying to find out, if it's just the nut part on the hard line (the part in the pic below where the flair nut wrench is on) you might still be able to get it tight enough, if the mating surfaces are smooth and un marred. The problem is the nut material is soft, you don't want to squish it. Even if it's rounded you may be able to get a grip on it with some vice grips and get it tight enough to stop it leaking and get it to a garage to have it fixed properly.

Still I have to say here, is no "compression" fitting inside the flexible (rubber or SS) line part, however the flair nut on the hard line screws into the flexible part and the flare in the hard line mates w/ the conical surface face of the fitting in the flex line's end. Compression fittings don't have flairs on them. They have cut off ends you slide on a nut then a sleeve (aka gland) and screw that into the female part of the fitting. The gland gets compressed when you tighten the nut squeezing the line you are affixing. That type you can cut off just behind the gland and reuse w/ a new gland. A flair nut needs a flaring tool but no gland. I think though like I said a normal flair tool won't work. I think the flair on the end of a brake line isn't the garden variety type. It's double folded back I think but I'm not positive.

My dad was a master plumber and I use to do a lot of pipe fitting. I have flaring tools but never used them on brake lines so I can't be sure how those are done, I just remember reading somewhere you can't just use a standard flair tool.

Of course if these aren't the proper SS brake lines and the flair surface dosen't properly mate to the flex lines all bets are off

Peaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 04:25 PM   #14
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Peaty
That's what I was trying to find out, if it's just the nut part on the hard line (the part in the pic below where the flair nut wrench is on) you might still be able to get it tight enough, if the mating surfaces are smooth and un marred. The problem is the nut material is soft, you don't want to squish it. Even if it's rounded you may be able to get a grip on it with some vice grips and get it tight enough to stop it leaking and get it to a garage to have it fixed properly.
My tech knowledge is not great enough to understand the whold compression fittings end of this, but the nut is as tight as I can get it (and dang, does it look shiny after being ripped up from my Robogrip!). I did just look at it again and notice that there is a little bit of brake fluid on the top, too (where the arrow points in Peatey's image above), although I don't know what this means.

There are a few brake places a short distance from here, and assuming I finish my front brakes (Stoptech kit - I must be crazy to try this all, but the instructions make it look easy), I can downshift and ease my way to the place. The rear lines are Stoptech also and appear to be the right sizing...
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 04:28 PM   #15
Peaty
Techno Sapien
Moderator
 
Member#: 449
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2010 Legacy 3.6R Lim
Azurite Blue Pearl

Default





Types of flair nuts above

Compresson fitting type here:

Peaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 10:47 PM   #16
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

After walking away from my car for a few hours, I think I understand what you're saying: No matter how bad I gouge up the flare nut, the hard line and the SS line should mate up underneath that nut and provide a drip free connection....

Or at least I think that's what yer saying.
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 10:55 PM   #17
Peaty
Techno Sapien
Moderator
 
Member#: 449
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2010 Legacy 3.6R Lim
Azurite Blue Pearl

Default

Yup, you got it.
Peaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2003, 10:34 AM   #18
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

I got it, but now can I solve it?

If I get brave tonight, I'll put the rubber lines back on and see what happens. The flare nut is so rounded that I don't think undoing it again will matter.
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2003, 11:25 AM   #19
wgknestrick
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32576
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Allentown, PA
Vehicle:
04 STI
Roller Barrel ITBS

Default

I've spent many a year plumbing with flared and compression fittings, and also put SS brake lines on the WRX.

Either get yourself (if you are confident of ability) some SS fittings and cut that flair off. You will need a pipe flaring tool (try plumbing section of Home Depot) that can flare 1/8" (not sure about size, measure to be 100% sure) pipe, a SS compresion coupler to couple your old brake lines to the new section you are about to make, and a new SS flare nut. To be safe, use 1-2 wraps of teflon tape on the compresion ferrels of the coupler. Carefully bend (use a mandrel if you can find one at home depot) in the new section and MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE NEW NUT ON BEFORE YOU FLARE THE PIPE. Do not over tighten the nuts. You should only use a 4-6" crescent wrench. Once it's all completed, tell yourself "I'm the man" and check your work for leaks. As always, test brake work on empty roads.
wgknestrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2003, 02:48 PM   #20
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

I'm almost embarrassed to close out this thread by telling what happened, but I will....

Took my car to a repair shop, and it turns out the flare nut wasn't tightened enough! I thought I had twice tried to tighten it down, but I guess I didn't try hard enough . Either that, or the mechanic's SnapOn tools were a little better than the Robogrip I was using to squeeze the flare nut and tighten it.

Oh well, live and learn.
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2003, 04:53 PM   #21
Peaty
Techno Sapien
Moderator
 
Member#: 449
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2010 Legacy 3.6R Lim
Azurite Blue Pearl

Default

The important thing is it's fixed and safe. No need to be embarrassed, if I told you how many things I learned the hard way we'd be here all day...

Peaty

PS Check your brake fluid level, for good measure you might want to bleed that one again.
Peaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2003, 05:23 PM   #22
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Peaty
PS Check your brake fluid level, for good measure you might want to bleed that one again.
I rebled the entire system thoroughly again today - was going to Motul 600 and needed to flush the system anyway.

Thanks again Peaty and everyone else for da help.
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2003, 06:58 PM   #23
Legacy777
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4800
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy & 97 OBS
AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap

Default

Other thing I'll suggest you do is hose down the area where the brake fluid was leaking with soapy water and such.

Brake fluid is extremely corrosive to paint, and other surfaces.
Legacy777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2003, 07:38 PM   #24
NotFast
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
Other thing I'll suggest you do is hose down the area where the brake fluid was leaking with soapy water and such.

Brake fluid is extremely corrosive to paint, and other surfaces.
Good idea. I already hit everything with brake cleaner (because I was making some big messes), but a little more cleaning power never hurts.
NotFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
07 Sti coolant line leak from defi egt gauge install. ChronicPoe Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 8 08-16-2009 11:40 PM
3/8" fuel lines and factory hard lines? NSFW Built Motor Discussion 14 07-14-2009 10:20 AM
leak from behind timing belt cover...help Hard Body Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 8 03-19-2009 08:16 PM
Oil Line leak from Motor to Turbo onetoenvy Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 17 08-26-2008 12:23 AM
Help... can't get brake line off the hard line chimchimm5 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 3 10-20-2007 11:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.