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Old 05-11-2003, 10:26 AM   #1
ANZAC_1915
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Unhappy Two spectators hit and killed on Sawmill (PA) club rally stage 3

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Old 05-11-2003, 10:38 AM   #2
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so not good. what a tradgedy. if anyone finds more details like a press release or local newspaper article please post links.
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Old 05-11-2003, 10:43 AM   #3
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And specialstage forums are offline for "maintenance". I hope that isn't the SCCA cone of silence descending.

(edit) confirmation on rally-l that they were hit by a competitor vehicle on a hot stage.

Last edited by ANZAC_1915; 05-11-2003 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 05-11-2003, 11:03 AM   #4
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I hope the families don't blame the sport or the SCCA. I figured they always stationed spectator areas in very unlikely accident areas(like on a hill on the inside curve for example). I pray that the families make it through this ok, and that future events continue, with more safety.

chris
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Old 05-11-2003, 11:33 AM   #5
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Crap...that sucks. The forums at Specialstage.com are down and Google News returns no hits yet. Does anyone have a URL for Rally-L archives?

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Old 05-11-2003, 11:37 AM   #6
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rally-l archives: http://cowboywww.squawk.com/majordomo/rally-l.archives

username: majordomo
password: majordomo

Don't expect to find much there on this subject, it is mostly "hey check out this post on specialstage".
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Old 05-11-2003, 11:50 AM   #7
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Uh oh, the information lockdown is descending:

I am not getting a 404 error on the specialstage post. It appears to have been deleted.

When are people going to realize that censoring information about accidents like this is even worse for the sport than allowing people to talk about it?

Glenn
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Old 05-11-2003, 12:05 PM   #8
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Geez, deleting the information makes everyone in this sport look guilty of something... all that much more likely that some form of inquiry is going to take place

I wonder if we'll ever even see a formal press release from the SCCA/Spitzner on this one. Somehow, I doubt it. I feel that prompt release of information to avoid the spread of rumors is a must, especially in this this sport where we are all full of rumors, speculations, ourselves.

My prayers are out to the famailies, and all of those involved with this horrible incident.
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Old 05-11-2003, 12:13 PM   #9
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Old 05-11-2003, 12:15 PM   #10
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I returned from Sawmill yesterday. I think noone should publically put any information on the forum untill the oficial press release.
R.
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Old 05-11-2003, 01:39 PM   #11
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I'm sure they are just doing what their lawyers tell them (the SCCA I mean), which in the end is in our best interest as well. However, this is the "age of information" so they better get their version of the story out before someone else does.

In terms of what information to share, they can be descreet, but not go into lock down. I agree that people who saw the incident should NOT post about what they saw for any number of reasons, including that it's just tasteless and insensitive to the families. However, deleting the post on Special Stage that containted only extremely basic information (people said they heard there was an accient, one guy at the driver's meeting confirmed that 2 spectators had been fatally injured) is complete overkill. They should not have said anything at the driver's meeting that they did not want to be public information.

If the SCCA wants to retain credibility they must have a press release by the end of the day (and let us say what we want about it!).

Instead of killing the threads on Special Stage, why not lock the thread and post something along the lines of "out of respect for the families involved, this thread is being locked until an official press release is made public - please honor their memories by refraining from further speculation on the topic until that time."

Alex
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Old 05-11-2003, 02:07 PM   #12
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The scary thing to me is, the incident happened about 100 feet from where I was standing the previous stage.

This occured in stage 3, I was there in stage 2. They ran the stage in reverse. I was filming the corner before the straight that it happened on.


Condolences to the victims' families and the drivers.
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Old 05-11-2003, 02:26 PM   #13
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Actually after thinking that over, I also come to the conclusion that SCCA is trying to keep quiet and plays with time, where if a simular accident took place everywhere in the world that info would spread around the world in few hours.
Reaction of the club (SCCA) was the same 3 years ago after the accident in Skisawmill that took place on the same stage (English run); this time because of the involvement of spectators, few things can not be hidden, because it is not limited to competitors who after signing the weaver are accepting taking the risks involved.
R
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Old 05-11-2003, 02:42 PM   #14
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The SCCA does not have control over Specialstage.com, if that were the case it would have been closed a long time ago as a lot of the people participating on the forum do nothing but bash the SCCA and I know that the SCCA hates the forum for that reason.

It seems that SS.com has been shut down for maintenence, if the post was deleted it was because the owners of the sight decided to delete it.
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Old 05-11-2003, 03:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
The SCCA does not have control over Specialstage.com
One of the SS people is on the SCCA PRB. So, while they may not have control over it, there certainly is some relation.

Quote:
if the post was deleted it was because the owners of the sight decided to delete it
Certainly they have that right, my point was that a) it only adds to the speculation and gossip and b) the flipping post had very little information, it seems pointless to delete it. People will still talk about it - ooh, we are now!

A press release ASAP from the organizers and/or the SCCA would be good.

Glenn
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Old 05-11-2003, 03:31 PM   #16
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As it stands, the whole forum is down and we don't know if the post was deleted or not. Possibly the forum is down to control chatter about the incident, but like you said that would do little to stop people from talking about it elsewhere.
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Old 05-11-2003, 03:47 PM   #17
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The thread was readable after the forum went down. It has now been deleted.
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Old 05-11-2003, 05:31 PM   #18
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Let's just wait for the SCCA to do it's thing.

I was 50 feet away from the people when they got hit. This is not good for rally. I expect to see MANY changes after this. And I DO hope to see these changes done because I don't want to have to go through this again.

Pete
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I will be posting the other (non-incident) pics from the race tonite.
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:01 PM   #19
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It would be interesting to know if the car went off the road or not, was it on a corner or a straight, how far back from the road the spectators were (not just the ones that were hit).

Glenn

SCCA Press Release page to watch: http://www.scca.com/amateur/performance_rally/press/

Event web site: http://www.rallyright.com/sawmill/index.html
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:02 PM   #20
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Quote [ I expect to see MANY changes after this. And I DO hope to see these changes done because I don't want to have to go through this again.]

But what changes? (other than no more events)! You can not have an "official" positioned with every "non offical" person along every foot of every stage. What other change can be made? Even making it a non spectator event won't prevent someone from being there. Put a big fence around every stage? I'm not saying that things shouldn't be tried. I'm just questioning what can realistically be done to prevent something like this from happening.
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:06 PM   #21
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:15 PM   #22
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:20 PM   #23
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Pete - one simple question for you: did you feel safe where you were standing, and would you have felt safe in their location? not meant to be inflamatory in anyway, even if your answer is no. Just trying to guage the situation.

Interesting that none of those articles call it a "race." Thats a good thing.

Alex
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by rallynutdon
But what changes? (other than no more events)! You can not have an "official" positioned with every "non offical" person along every foot of every stage. What other change can be made? Even making it a non spectator event won't prevent someone from being there. Put a big fence around every stage? I'm not saying that things shouldn't be tried. I'm just questioning what can realistically be done to prevent something like this from happening.
Anything possible that can be done w/o cancelling the event. Get a sweep Greyhound bus that goes through filled with militia men and have them pull people out of the stage and put 'em in the spectator spots. Anything!! Post people at all entrances to the forest with small post cards with the picture I got of the incident happening to use as a scare tactic. Hand them out to everyone entering the woods. Look to see where people stand then. See how brave they get.

Regardless, something has to improve. As horrible as it was at the time, do something like Cherokee had in 2002. Just don't put people 300 yards away from the rally road. Keep the area patrolled, policed, yet put the spectators in a good area where they can see, take their pictures/video, and yet be 100% safe.

Alex - 50 feet can be a tremendous difference on a stage. You can be 100% safe in your spot, but 50 feet up or back, it can be the worst place to be. I always stand where I feel nearly 100% safe. Anything can happen though, even at that 100% spot. I can't speak for their spot since I didn't analyze it.

Pete

Last edited by Pete 97 GS-T; 05-11-2003 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:59 PM   #25
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The SCCA has a press release up now:

http://www.scca.com/news/press03_31.html
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