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Old 05-15-2003, 10:34 AM   #1
micah
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Old 05-15-2003, 10:52 AM   #2
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Wow...the aerial equivalent of Tommy Boy walking into a bank and shouting "listen up, this will only take a second!"

~Paul
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Old 05-15-2003, 11:04 AM   #3
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The pilot requested and received permission for his descent. His altitude was monitored by ATCs. This type of permission has been granted on previous occasions after September 11, 2003. Perhaps instead of ragging on the FAA and the pilot you should instead focus your attention on the morons that phoned 911 and said a plane had crashed in the river.

In addition, how in the hell does someone know the plane was at 2,000 feet agl when the tower plainly had it at 3,000 feet agl?

Looks more like dumb people over reacting to something then anything the pilot or controller might have done wrong. Now because a few individuals were so quick on their cell phones, everyone else will be denied the opportunity for a quick flight over the water at 3,000 feet (which is not very low).
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Old 05-15-2003, 11:19 AM   #4
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People are dumb, and we know this. Considering the history, I just think a low flight by a jumbojet in a circle around NYC was ill advised.
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Old 05-15-2003, 11:39 AM   #5
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Right on Tim. I happen to know a little bit about the FAA and the ATC system used in New York air space, and what was done was totally legit and safe. Heck, this is safer than some of the super packed approach patterns that occur into New York Tracon airspace.

Someone really called 911 and said the 777 was in the river? This person should have their cell phone rights revoked.

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Old 05-15-2003, 11:50 AM   #6
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you'd be a little on edge if you watched a couple jumbo jets plow into the most prominent buildings in the skyline of your city, too. and i'm not talking about on TV. these people lived it.

the behavior of the plane was something they're not used to seeing, the people of NYC have been told to be on the lookout for things that are out of the obvious, they did what they thought was right by calling. THOUSANDS of people called to report it, not just one guy. if that makes them morons then i think you ought to re-examine your definition.

you may know a little something about air traffic control in NY, but the average person does not. a circle around the Statue of Liberty and then low-altitude passes near Manhattan would have gotten my attention, too. i can't blame them for being concerned.
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Old 05-15-2003, 12:02 PM   #7
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A hijacked airlined wouldn't have done donuts around the statue of liberty. It would have plowed right into it. People are so uptight these days.

It was an airliner full of troops coming home from the war in Iraq, and the pilot wanted to give them some nice views for their homecoming. I don't see a problem with that. I can't believe people called 911 because of this.

NY people, in general, can all eat my ass.
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Old 05-15-2003, 12:05 PM   #8
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was the plane trailing a banner that said "don't worry, this plane is full of troops returning from iraq"? and who can say WHAT a hijacked plane would do? no one thought they'd ever be purposefully crashed into a skyscraper until a couple years ago.

i think it was a nice gesture, i just don't think you can blame anyone who lives there for being alarmed.
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Old 05-15-2003, 12:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by cwb124
A hijacked airlined wouldn't have done donuts around the statue of liberty. It would have plowed right into it. People are so uptight these days.
And neither would a "normal" passenger flight. Who's to know what the hell was going on there? Maybe the plane was waiting to ram into something?

I'll repeat what someone else said. If you had witnessed, in person, the destruction of 2 of your most famous landmarks and the killing of 3,000 people when a plane flew low and crashed into a building, you would be a little jumpy when you witnessed the SAME THING again.
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Old 05-15-2003, 01:31 PM   #10
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3,000 feet is NOT a low level pass. 3,000 feet is NOT a 777 in the river. Perhaps if people actually took a single second to think before they picked up a phone and dialed 911 much of these knee jerks reactions could be spared.

You sound like you know more then just a little bit Micah. What is it you do?
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Old 05-15-2003, 01:36 PM   #11
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notice it's only the OT aviation posse that's calling the public morons.
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Old 05-15-2003, 01:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim K.
3,000 feet is NOT a low level pass. 3,000 feet is NOT a 777 in the river. Perhaps if people actually took a single second to think before they picked up a phone and dialed 911 much of these knee jerks reactions could be spared.
Maybe people think that in this day and age they _shouldn't_ wait even a second before calling 911.

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You sound like you know more then just a little bit Micah. What is it you do?
What did I say that sounds like I know something? People are dumb? It's not an issue of whether the pass is safe, whether they had clearance, or what the current exhaust gas temperature of the #2 engine was. It scared the bejesus out of people and pissed off the mayor, who we can assume is no idiot.

My occupation is duly filled in in my profile
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:25 PM   #13
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I keep forgetting... people are just plain ignorant. The public is filled with morons that bleat like a bunch of stupid sheep while cowering in a corner.

If you can't tell the difference between an aircraft at 3,000 feet and one in the river, then you are truly stupid. No ifs, ands. or buts about it.

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Old 05-15-2003, 02:26 PM   #14
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Regardless, FAA = DMV x infinity /

Their stupid policy making is just one facet of why I don't fly commerical anymore.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:30 PM   #15
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FAA = underfunded, understaffed, undertrained, underdogs. They have a crappy job with no help given to try and get it done. They don't have what they need in terms of funds, training, or personnel. Thank your government for that.

Besides, why should the safe operation of airlines be dependent on the government instead of the airlines themselves? It should frighten you more that a company whose business is the transportation of human cargo is willing to gamble with those lives for the sake of profit margins.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim K.
I keep forgetting... people are just plain ignorant. The public is filled with morons that bleat like a bunch of stupid sheep while cowering in a corner.

I have a theory that at least 90% of the people are idiots...look at the roads, watch the news, check out what's popular on TV...I think you'll agree that's even a conservative estimate.

I have some friends taht work for Continental...if I can get an insider's perspective, I'll let you nkow what they think.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by AC Lerok
notice it's only the OT aviation posse that's calling the public morons.
Because they are basically. Jittery, irrational, and they generally distrust and have disdain for aviation in general. So I'm not surprised that they called in. However, 3,000 ft? Article doesn't specify whether it was MSL or AGL, but it being the harbor, I think they are one and the same. Radar records can verify if they went any lower, but no way is that even close to looking like an airplane going down. And I find it highly doubtful that anyone on the ground that saw it could discern whether the plane was at 2,000 or 3,000. And even at 2,000 feet is was still high enough. The airplanes that hit the towers were flying well below 1000 ft. But thanks to the impulsivity of the general public, troops coming home will be deprived of a small gesture of gratitude that is well deserved.

Gotta fly!
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim K.
I keep forgetting... people are just plain ignorant. The public is filled with morons that bleat like a bunch of stupid sheep while cowering in a corner.

If you can't tell the difference between an aircraft at 3,000 feet and one in the river, then you are truly stupid. No ifs, ands. or buts about it.

all i'm saying is that the people who called had a right to call, and in their minds, had every reason to call. if 3,000 feet above manhattan is lower than what they're used to seeing, then i can't blame them for calling.

but, hey, ymaybe you're right. we're all sheep and you're the last of the independents, right?
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Habu


Because they are basically. Jittery, irrational, and they generally distrust and have disdain for aviation in general.
all a layman knows are the established patterns that take place over their area. if something looks low to them, be it at 3,000 or 2,000 or 15 feet, they're going to notice it. and no, they CAN'T spot the difference between 2,000 and 3,000 feet. they're layman. they don't have to.

you guys are totally coming off like Nick Burns - your company's air traffic controller - here. people aren't idiots, morons, or ignorant just because they don't have the shame sphere of knowledge you do. and, in their cases, they've been victimized and are understandibly freaked out.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:57 PM   #20
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N'ah, they're just stupid. Plane in river = plane at 3,000 feet. Yep, they're stupid.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim K.
N'ah, they're just stupid. Plane in river = plane at 3,000 feet. Yep, they're stupid.
i have yet to read in any report that anyone reported it actually crashed into the water. you got a link to something that does (not a challenge, just would like to read it)?
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:09 PM   #22
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From the link in the first post: "For nearly eight minutes, fire officials thought a plane might have crashed in the East River.


The first 911 call came in at 8:32 in the morning. The frantic voice on the phone said there was "a plane down in the river.""
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by AC Lerok


i have yet to read in any report that anyone reported it actually crashed into the water. you got a link to something that does (not a challenge, just would like to read it)?
Did you read the article?

"The first 911 call came in at 8:32 in the morning. The frantic voice on the phone said there was "a plane down in the river."
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:16 PM   #24
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i had only read CNN, the philly inquirer, and MSNBC . . . sorry guys, assumed the link was to CNN.
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:17 PM   #25
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They probably weren't saying that because they hallucinated an actual aircraft floating in the water. They were saying it because they saw a plane go below the skyline from their point of view, towards the river, lower than any other plane they'd seen since 9/11.
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