Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday November 26, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-23-2003, 03:22 AM   #1
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Thumbs up JDM EJ20-R N/A (186hp at 7100rpm!!!)

I like really want this engine in my car!:

Quote:
EJ20-R 2.0-litre NA: 186hp at 7100rpm. 142ft/lb's of torque at 4400rpm. 33mpg in 10/15mode.
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/03_leg_photo.html

That just sounds awesome... Sure its only a 2.0 as opposed to a 2.5, but that high end would be soooo fun
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 03:51 AM   #2
COwannago
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6972
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Default

My car envies that engine as do I.

Nick C.
COwannago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 10:55 AM   #3
danci1973
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 19018
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Maribor, Slovenia
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy Wagon
Silver

Default

OMG!

I really have to win that lottery soon!

D.
danci1973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 01:19 PM   #4
Gambit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The meeting place
Default

No way. Look at the integra-like torque. The hp range is very similar to that of a Celica GTS. So why not buy a Celica GTS instead? No thank you. I prefer my beefier EJ25 with butt loads of torque.
Gambit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 03:04 PM   #5
scoobiejosh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3139
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: SLC Utah
Vehicle:
2001 Dodge Pikumup
& 08 Triumph Speed Triple

Default

O.K. class………let’s do the math.

186 h.p. @ 7100 RPM
That can be done on an EJ25 in under 6250 RPM with bolt-ons.

142 ft/lbs @ 4400 PRM
The stock EJ25 does that at around 3000 RPM. Lower RPM if you have bolt-ons

My math may be wrong, but why is that motor better? It looks like less to me. Just because it is JDM?

BTW the link goes to a New Legacy page.
scoobiejosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 03:05 PM   #6
garface
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1581
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: yonkers, ny
Vehicle:
MY00 RS/STi7
MY01 RS Both Silverthorne

Default

I don't get it. Why would you want that engine?
garface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 03:48 PM   #7
jasona
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11786
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Alaska
Vehicle:
2014 OB 2.5i 6MT
Silver

Default

The higher redline lets you hold each gear longer, wasting less time shifting and spending more time in the lower gears where you put more torque to the wheels. Other than that, it's just plain cool.

Imagine a turbo setup with that as opposed to a 2.5. You could use a bigger compressor since you;ve got another 1000 rpm to spool, plus you would have it spooled for that much longer before shifting.

Honestly I'd keep my 2.5 though
jasona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 03:57 PM   #8
garface
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1581
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: yonkers, ny
Vehicle:
MY00 RS/STi7
MY01 RS Both Silverthorne

Default

I don't know, seems like there just isn't enough torque and the peak is way up there. I haven't seen the power curve, but I'd assume you'd have to keep it fairly high RPM wise for regular driving. Too Honda'ish for me. I'd prefer an STi engine.
garface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2003, 10:37 PM   #9
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

Thats 186hp WITHOUT tuning! Just think about tossing on a full exhaust and your normal other bolts ons like a Cobb intake, pullies, etc... Then tune the variable-valve system via ECU for even more hp... Mmm.

Sure it doesnt have the torque of an EJ25, but everyone complains about our high end and dwells on the torque. This is a very different engine from the SOHC EJ25's we have and thats the point. Heck, its got more torque (and 45 more hp) than the EJ22's that we had before and its only a 2.0.

Also, think about applying that technology to the N/A 2.5l... Mmmm...
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2003, 11:54 PM   #10
Gambit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The meeting place
Default

Not against this engine or anything. But if you really think about it, an AWD car does better with more low end tq. reason being that you would need the grunt to overcome the awd grip and get going. so this car while on paper will sound good (to some), the drivability will not be as good as the EJ25. Imagine winding the engine up while stuck on a snow.
As like most any small engine that has high hp/rev, you can imagine the state of tune the engine already comes with. so tossing a few simple bolt ons may not yield as much performance improvement as one might think.
Gambit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 01:46 AM   #11
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

If you missed it, it also gets 33mpg, which is amazing for that much hp out of a 2.0 and on a car that weighs that much.

Plus the likely hood of exploding my EJ18 tranny (and cable clutch, which I would like to keep after driving an RS today) would be far less likely than with an EJ25 swap into my car.

I dont know why you are compairing this to honda engines, when you should be compairing it to Porsche engines
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 02:49 AM   #12
HndaTch627
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6551
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Vehicle:
'01 GC8 Dinged STM
'09 Concours 14 ABS Black

Default

why use a 2.0 instead of a 2.5?? try spinning a stock 2.5 to 8k RPM....sorry i think that's awesome they built that car. and the top end WOULD be very sick

Jeremy
HndaTch627 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 03:12 AM   #13
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen
(and cable clutch, which I would like to keep after driving an RS today)
It's the pressure plate spring that make my clutch stiffer, not the hydraulic actuater.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 03:13 AM   #14
rbehny
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1908
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: HR
Default

maybe i'm just wishing that i had a bigger engine in the rs but going down to a 2.0 just isn't an option for me. We've seen the potential of high redline EJ25's like dcoty's and his isn't even fully tuned yet. We've seen the torque delivery of turbo'd/SC'd EJ25's. Why would we want to gain 20hp and lose torque by going to a smaller engine? Isn't equal gaining of hp and torque the goal of anyone who modifies there car?

reinforce the internals of a EJ25...slap a RA tranny in a RS with a new rear diff...and drop a damn turbo with good management then say high to a higher redline.. and you'll have something that'll smoke that 2.0 liter with a turbo and equal managment.

Yeah that's paper racing but from what we've seen of wrx's vs. rs with turbo's it's gone in the favor of the RS. Top end speed might go to the wrx but that's actual drivetrain issues.

This'll pretty much be exactly what an STI vs. modded WRX will be.

that's my 1cent worth.. not like that'll buy you anything any more so take it for what it's worth..
rbehny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 03:20 AM   #15
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
The hp range is very similar to that of a Celica GTS. So why not buy a Celica GTS instead?
I think this might be a valid point. Tuners aren't getting much more out of the 2ZZ motor, even with turbos (and most of those are blowing up still). Subaru might have stretched the EJ20 to the limit nearly already.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 03:33 AM   #16
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

I wouldn't give that engine a second look.. This winter, I'm going to try saving enough to buy a USDM STI block and Ludespeed Stage III turbo kit..
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 04:24 AM   #17
rbehny
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1908
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: HR
Default

Do you think the 2.5rs heads will fit on the new USDM STI block? How much power do you think we'd lose with out the AVCS? good luck joe if you do undertake the project.
rbehny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 04:28 AM   #18
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

I doubt it would lose much power, just crank up the boost.. If thats not possible, I have a dealer that goes to salvage auctions searching for a STI engine and tranny WHEN some idiot totals one
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 12:25 PM   #19
HndaTch627
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6551
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Vehicle:
'01 GC8 Dinged STM
'09 Concours 14 ABS Black

Default

not to sound like an ass, but thinking that you can spin an EJ25 reliably NEARLY as fast as an EJ20 is just maddness. the 2.5 ROd if just TOOO long, it's built for low end torque nothing more. You all bring up the torque issue. Torque is eliminated with a properly geared trans(which the RS very much does NOT have). well anyhow i'm not gonna sit here and paper race. but look at the foot per minute od speed of a EJ20 @ 8k rpm and look at the FPM rod speed of an EJ25 @ 8k RPM

you might be shocked at what you find, also why do you think the USDM sti block has a 7k RPM redline.

Jeremy
HndaTch627 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 04:33 PM   #20
jasona
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11786
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Alaska
Vehicle:
2014 OB 2.5i 6MT
Silver

Default

I wonder what it would take to adapt the AVCS to a 2.5, that would be sweet
jasona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 08:31 PM   #21
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

Would this work? This feature is on a LINK.

Two RPM Switches: Manifold, Cam, VTEC, shift light - 2 drives available

Last edited by joefocker20; 05-26-2003 at 08:39 PM.
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 09:19 PM   #22
HndaTch627
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6551
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Vehicle:
'01 GC8 Dinged STM
'09 Concours 14 ABS Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jasona
I wonder what it would take to adapt the AVCS to a 2.5, that would be sweet
actually it wouldn't do anything except make the car run cleaner, they aren't making more power with the AVCS system, they are stretching fuel economy and getting the car in under the emissions laws.

jeremy
HndaTch627 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 09:26 PM   #23
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

For one think the EJ25 has intake manifold issues revving it high. I think those issues are better addressed in the JDM AVCS EJ25, but im not sure exactly.

In no way am I saying any RS guys with an EJ25 should "downgrade" to the EJ20, Im just saying for us L guys it sounds fantastic.

Im also wondering if the EJ-R series will spread out a little more, and that im also wondering if our STI engine is a EJ25-R T possibly...
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 09:30 PM   #24
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
actually it wouldn't do anything except make the car run cleaner, they aren't making more power with the AVCS system, they are stretching fuel economy and getting the car in under the emissions laws.

jeremy
Yeah... when Honda guys try to throw their power 'boost' from VTEC in your face... just point out the fact that Honda is actually taking AWAY power before the switch, rather than adding any.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 09:51 PM   #25
Penphoe
Friendly Neighbourhood
Moderator
 
Member#: 269
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Vehicle:
2005 ABP LGT LTD BP6
00 Impreza RS GM6 RIP

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by BAN SUVS


Yeah... when Honda guys try to throw their power 'boost' from VTEC in your face... just point out the fact that Honda is actually taking AWAY power before the switch, rather than adding any.
DOH! Honda's secret is out!

Here's a rhetorical question - why doesn't Honda put VTEC on their Indy race car engine? :roleyes:

With all these flavours of the EJ series engines comming out, hopefully we'll be able to mix-and-match the best of all worlds! EJ25T with dual AVCS AND turbo! Heck, isn't that the North American STi?

LaterZ!
Darren!!
Penphoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does JDM EJ20 engine bolt up to a JDM EJ25 AT legacy tranny? AlbanianImpreza Subaru Conversions 4 02-13-2007 12:52 PM
03 USDM EJ20 -> 97 JDM EJ20 swap marksWRX03 Subaru Conversions 10 06-09-2004 09:13 AM
domestic ej20 versus JDM ej20 subenick Subaru Conversions 15 03-22-2004 07:00 PM
Differences between US EJ20 and JDM EJ20? Lee Chun Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 3 01-03-2004 09:35 PM
Using a usdm ej20 block with jdm ej20 bottom end, whats the block diffrence with sti Turbo Tin Can Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 2 12-02-2003 04:13 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.