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Old 05-27-2003, 12:38 PM   #1
QA Guy
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Join Date: May 2001
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2002 WRX
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Default Problems with piston #4 ring land

I have been reading up on this subject, but I am not seeing any kind of consensus on this.

I am reading that:
- high HP causes this (regardless of how well tuned)
- poor tuning causes this
- fuel rails will fix this
- fuel rails won't fix this, as it is due to uneven air delivery by the intake manifold

Here are some relevant links:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=364230

http://www.teamnabr.com/pubforums/ul...=9;t=000003;p=

Anyway, what is the consensus, if any, on cause and avoidance of this problem?

Waiting on the "if you play, you pay" comments...
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Old 05-27-2003, 12:55 PM   #2
David@Vishnu
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Well I dont see what the big confusion is. Lotsa people predicted
Many stage 4 failures within a year- well we are starting to see them and everyone is going nuts. I think the answer to the question is the EJ 205 has suck. We all have gotten away with vette stomping power levels for a while now and some have fallen. I think lotsa peeps cheat with recomended routine maintanance (too busy installing that new go fast part) as well as previous abuse before the proper tune. For the majority the well taken care of tuned cars (from the start) are not having these problems. Of course there are exceptions but for the most part I see people posting about failed #4 saying " it was professionally tuned, I drove like a grandma" then pulling up previous posts see a utec log with multiple 10-30 counts, street racing and general abuse, standing behind ball spring MBCs and Injens, asking if the car is cool with 89 octane, ect ect ect
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Old 05-27-2003, 02:10 PM   #3
AZScoobie
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Default Re: Problems with piston #4 ring land

Quote:
Originally posted by QA Guy
I have been reading up on this subject, but I am not seeing any kind of consensus on this.

I am reading that:
- high HP causes this (regardless of how well tuned)
- poor tuning causes this
- fuel rails will fix this
- fuel rails won't fix this, as it is due to uneven air delivery by the intake manifold

Here are some relevant links:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=364230

http://www.teamnabr.com/pubforums/ul...=9;t=000003;p=

Anyway, what is the consensus, if any, on cause and avoidance of this problem?

Waiting on the "if you play, you pay" comments...
This failure is caused by detonation. If the source came from the Intake manifold flowing more air or the lack of fuel or bad of tuning its all the same.. Detonation. When you increase power levels the margin of safety grows thin. If you are concerned with this type of failure or how to prevent it then I suggest you follow the path the rest of us took.. Install EGT probes on that side of the motor and or multiple probes, Purchase and install Wideband AF meters, and install a knock link and monitor it. Find a tuner that has a decent reputation or get some books and start learning how to tune your own car... All you can do with these forums is read, ingest and form your own opinion based on the facts of the information just read... If you do that with even a small amount of subjectivity you will likely walk away with a plan.

HTH

CT
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Old 05-28-2003, 08:05 AM   #4
2002whitewrx
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If you want to prevent this put a egt probe on every cylinder and watch them closely avoid mbc and have it professionally tuned regardless and most of all don't beat on the car on the highway when you've drove 1,000 mi. already. I'm still wondering what you cant do to prevent this but my conclusion is leave the car stock if you don't want this to happen to you thats the only 100% safe way. The engine was made for 227 flywheel hp. not 300+ hp. at the wheels.
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Old 05-28-2003, 09:53 AM   #5
TypeC
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For one thing, quit bringing up MBC's as if they are the cause. You can have a $600 ebc do the same damage as a $4mbc. It's not the bc, it's the driving style/tuning. That's just like blaming a turbo for flowing more air. They do what they are supposed to do.
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:19 AM   #6
IA Performance
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Default

I've had 40whp more than most VF30 stage 4 cars for 8K miles now. No problems to date. Part of it may be that I dropped a ton of cash to have it dyno tuned and now have purchased a wideband to monitor new road tuning to take place. An EGT gauge has been in place since 2K miles. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones.

Also, Utec or Unichip? WHich have had the highest casualties? I imgine utecs detonation protection has helped save many wrxs out there.

Last edited by East Coast Scooby; 05-28-2003 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:59 AM   #7
David@Vishnu
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Quote:
Originally posted by TypeC
For one thing, quit bringing up MBC's as if they are the cause. You can have a $600 ebc do the same damage as a $4mbc. It's not the bc, it's the driving style/tuning. That's just like blaming a turbo for flowing more air. They do what they are supposed to do.
I suspect that was directed at me? Your the one claiming I said mbcs are the cause, If I may clarify OF COURSE its not the mbcs fault its the ability to easily cheat and the ease of being a DA because of it thats the problem. OF COURSE its his driving style/tuning with the mbc how else could damage occur with a mbc/bc? I think your really simplifing it way too much instead of focusing on the end result (Fried ring lands) and the ease/cheepness/ability to cheat/head up a#@/unexperienced users/unaccountability(just take it off in 2 minutes)/ noobs watching FATF. So please dont reduce me to some better than thou UTEC user bashing on MBCs- you made that arguement I didnt
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:55 PM   #8
mlambert
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Quote:
Originally posted by East Coast Scooby


Also, Utec or Unichip? WHich have had the highest casualties? I imgine utecs detonation protection has helped save many wrxs out there.
Most likely unichips are leading but there are people installing utecs that don't own a laptop and don''t live near near a dyno. Its not the fault of the hardware though, its the people.
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Old 05-28-2003, 05:13 PM   #9
TypeC
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Quote:
Originally posted by MP5
I suspect that was directed at me?
No, it wasn't. It's directed at the people who blame the bc (or type of bc) for failures.

Also when you say
Quote:
then pulling up previous posts see a utec log with multiple 10-30 counts, street racing and general abuse, standing behind ball spring MBCs and Injens, asking if the car is cool with 89 octane, ect ect ect
Basically, listing mbc in the list of stupid/unwise things, you are very cleary implying something. No one can guess your deaper meaning but everyone DOES ready what was so cleary said between the lines.

Thanks for the clarify.
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Old 05-28-2003, 07:27 PM   #10
2002whitewrx
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Dyno's don't have anything to do with it they will just help prolong the engines life and I do think mbc will mess up your engine as they get spike and boost creep like crazy.
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