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Old 05-28-2003, 08:39 PM   #1
cpu77
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Default More power whats next?

Guys I have a ludespeed stage 3 turbo kit with 550cc injectors/rails/light flywheel/clutch/FPR/pulley/2.5" Exhaust/Link Plus. I run 9PSI car dyno at 194hp on a mustang. So what can I do to get more power short of a enging build? How much to go or should I start saving for a long block? Maybe a 2.0 swap? I want 325whp 0-60 in at least 4 sec flat!

By the way thanks to all for your help so far. I just need more juice

Ralph
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Old 05-28-2003, 08:47 PM   #2
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cams/head work will get you some gains without a full build. However to get to your target you'll need a full build. I suggest ordering a STi 2.5l shortblock. Cheaper than you'd think. Combine that with cams and some head work and you'll easily attain 325 to the wheels. Dont forget that you'll more than likely need gears then too.
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:28 PM   #3
cpu77
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I wonder what a 2.5STI Short block will cost? I will have $2500 in cams and heads I bet Plus labor of total assembly. Pulling the motor is easy but making sure all is setup right all pass. Midwayman do you think another turbo could say move me to 235WHP at 9psi with no motor work? I wonder if I can find a better matched turbo then this rebuilt ford turbo? Also do u think larger up and downpipes would help?

Yeah a tranny would be nice but I don't drive my car hard.
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Old 05-29-2003, 03:02 AM   #4
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The STi shortblocks are the same price as a legacy turbo block if you can find someone to get it for you. You could just get that and turn the boost way up to make 300whp. What kind of turbo came in the stage 3 kit?
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Old 05-29-2003, 03:58 PM   #5
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Default Go with cam's

If you want more power get cam's you'll need them to make your power goals anyway they will get you around the 235WHP mark.
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Old 05-29-2003, 04:20 PM   #6
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You'll either need a better dyno, or you'll need to get the car tuned properly. 9psi should put down well into the 230-250 range.
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:32 PM   #7
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Exactly Brian
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:42 PM   #8
cpu77
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I had the car professionally tuned. I just think these cars are not to quick. It is 30 more whp than a stock WRX Not saying much though! My torque is 230 at the wheels though. Honestly 8complex have ever had your car on a dyno? My friends tell me how fast there cars are then they get on a dyno and it's no where near as much as they think. Anyway I appreciate your comments. I think I will buy a short block heads and cams and see what happens. I am not crazy about my link plus. I wonder if there is something else I would like better?
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Old 05-29-2003, 09:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpu77
I had the car professionally tuned. I just think these cars are not to quick. It is 30 more whp than a stock WRX Not saying much though! My torque is 230 at the wheels though. Honestly 8complex have ever had your car on a dyno? My friends tell me how fast there cars are then they get on a dyno and it's no where near as much as they think. Anyway I appreciate your comments. I think I will buy a short block heads and cams and see what happens. I am not crazy about my link plus. I wonder if there is something else I would like better?
I would tend to think there's something wrong with the dyno or your car then, as the AVO kits on the 2.5RS are dynoing around 210-215whp at 6psi. I can't imagine 9psi not making atleast 230. Perhaps you should check back with the tuner and make sure everything he did is still in tact?
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Old 05-30-2003, 02:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpu77
I had the car professionally tuned. I just think these cars are not to quick. It is 30 more whp than a stock WRX Not saying much though! My torque is 230 at the wheels though. Honestly 8complex have ever had your car on a dyno?
Ahhhhh, well then that dyno reads particularly low. I was under the impression that stock WRX's tested around 180-190 to the wheels, not 160. Which means your torque is probably more around the 250-260 range, which sounds more like it.

No, I haven't had my car on a dyno yet, too damn expensive. I had run my car on a road dyno previous to turbo'ing it, and put down about 125hp/135ftlbs to the ground, which was pretty realistic due to the CAI, lightened flywheel, and haltech tuning. I was going to run it on the road dyno again tonite, but we couldn't get the weather info, so I decided to skip it. One day... I'll need to get the WB on it again to do some midrange tuning as I've got some rough spots, and I'll run it again soon. Perhaps I'll run a WOT run or two before then, though.

Quote:
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Exactly Brian
Pssst... I'm Nick.
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
I had the car professionally tuned. I just think these cars are not to quick. It is 30 more whp than a stock WRX Not saying much though! My torque is 230 at the wheels though. I wonder if there is something else I would like better?
Here are some "professionally tuned" dyno numbers from 2WD conversions to compare with:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...threadid=40662

I think you did just fine. I'm not 100% crazy about the LinkPlus either, but I feel it's the best compromise for what you pay.

-WaC
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Old 05-30-2003, 10:14 AM   #12
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Your numbers are right around the ballpark for 9psi. Its the Mustang dyno that differs. All the claims of 240-250WHP are coming from DynoJet numbers or other sources other than Mustang or Dyno Dynamics.
From personal experiece, I put out 190WHP on the Mustang Dyno at 9psi. My friends EVO VIII with a turbo back exhaust made around 235WHP on a DynoJet and when we did 3rd and 4th gear runs I easily walked from him. Now that doesnt mean much because the EVO's run sick rich by redline so their peak HP is around 4000RPM and then sinks way down by redline. But on mine its stays pretty strong all the way to redline.

That same day his car was tuned by Shiv with the installation of an XEDE and later that day he made around 270WHP at the stock boost levels on the DynoJet and stayed strong to redline. Now when we do runs he's always ahead of me by about a car length.

So the 240-250 numbers seem accurate if its on a DynoJet.

Last edited by WRC 555; 05-30-2003 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 05-30-2003, 10:54 AM   #13
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Ralph, prior to getting a decent tune from my VF10 I made only 166hp but 195lbs on FIS's Mustang dyno at 5.5-6 psi. My torque fell off dramatically after the peak which as you should know doesnt yield particularly high hp numbers. I'm waiting for the next dyno day to see how much better its running now, but I'm not expecting that much more torque... just hope that I'm maintaining it through higher revs which will yeild more hp. Why not try a set of Cobb cams, headwork, etc to make more power. Your tranny is gonna start breaking soon, and the torque you'll be making at 325awhp will also start breaking your diffs too.
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Old 05-30-2003, 11:04 AM   #14
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Nick..I knew that...just wanted to make sure you were on the ball

ANyway, I've said it millions of times already....I never understood the obsession with the dyno. There are few in the country, and even fewer people that really know what they are doing to accurately give you a good reliable figure. Not to mention that its only a viable conparison to other cars tested on that dyno at that location; other comparisons are about as useful as tits on a bull.

Want to know how the car performs? Simple...take it to the track, and tune it there, with a datalogger. You will learn more about how the car behaves in the real world, and it is worth its weight in gold if youa re serious about extracting more power out of it. At the very least, you'll know based on the trap speed alone a good idea of the power levels you are at.

Adam
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Old 05-30-2003, 11:09 AM   #15
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Just another arrow in the quiver. But you're dead on, if you're making 30 more whp than a WRX on this mustang dyno then you've more than accomplished your goal.
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Old 05-30-2003, 06:00 PM   #16
cpu77
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Z1 Performance,

I agree dyno number are that just numbers. I want 325WHP on my dyno because a ZO6 put 360WHP down on that say after me. So thats my goal be able to beat or hang with a stock ZO6.
So I guess I'll do the following:
************************************************** *
Buy a STI Short Bock
Have my heads done somewhere Cheaper than Cobb!
Cams done somewhere Cheap
Have the motor professionally assembled.
I'll need 850cc or run 6x 550cc ! How would I make 6 work custom intake manifold?
*Ball Bearing turbo similar to what I have Maybe more efficient?
*What diffs would I buy STI?
*Tranny probably buy the gear Larry sells
Will I need more cooling? My exedy race clutch probably won't hold.
************************************************** *
Any other ideas? I am just making my budget for 2003/2004 Adjustments. Maybe I'll due diffs and tranny this year and December buy a short block ect. 5k for 2003 no doubt and the same for 2004! I need a new hobby

I spent way too much this year. For engine management I wonder if a stock ECU reflash would be better?
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Old 05-30-2003, 06:38 PM   #17
Z1 Performance
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Power along gaurantees nothing though...gearing plays as big a role as does weight.

Example: at 10 psi on my RS (T3/T4, .63 AR exhaust side) with 3 inch exhast, I ran 12.90's @ 106 ish. This is right there with a well driven '02 Z06, give or take. I have absolutely no clue what my car ever made on the dyno, as I never tested it. Car weighed an even 3050 lbs at Englishtown with me and a half tank of gas as I recall.

When the bosot was cranked, I didn't gain much ET, but top speed took a good jump, so it made gobs more power. 19 psi on this same turbo gave me 12.68@108-109. However, this was also after swapping in the RA tranny, which has the same overal final drive, but has different internal ratios.

Happy boosting

Adam
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:22 PM   #18
cpu77
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Z1 Performance
You do not have a RS though right? You are right power/weight and traction is key gearing is also very important. I need to get to the track with my car I wonder if I can break the 13 second mark?
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:06 PM   #19
cpu77
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Adam,

Are you running stock internals? I see you say u have a RS what MY? Whats your setup got it listed anywhere?
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Old 05-31-2003, 06:23 PM   #20
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I had an RS...was among the first 3 to turbocharge there's in the US way back in the day

Car was a '99, motor was original...never had any mods internally to it while it was a turbo 2.5. Turbo'd here at around 9000 miles, threw a rod at 42k miles, and then swapped for the STi V4 motor. Witht he turbo 2.5 it ran a best of 12.68@108 at 19-20 psi on race gas. With the STi V4 motor, it ran a best of 11.88@118 on pump gas.

Do some searches...you'll find my setup floating around someplace.....a biut archaic compared to what others run on their car, but mine always ran well, and we did 4 or 5 other cars (all '99's, which is my weapon of choice if you MUST turbo a 2.5) with identical setups that are still running great to this day.
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Old 06-02-2003, 09:18 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpu77
I agree dyno number are that just numbers. I want 325WHP on my dyno because a ZO6 put 360WHP down on that say after me. So thats my goal be able to beat or hang with a stock ZO6.
Cpu, did the tech change the config data between the Z06 and your RS? I know that the Mustang Dyno down here is configured for WRXs and for us RS guys the only change is the vehicle weight (which is based on Cobb's 2900 lb baseline). I suspect that FIS' readings look the way they do due to setup of the dyno software... ask Graham, he made good power on the dyno but its still not a "normal" plot (huge torque, low (rel) hp).
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Old 06-05-2003, 12:55 AM   #22
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i wanna know more about Z1's sti motor... i would love to have a 1/4 of solid 11's anywas as of right i dont want to do any kind of turbo upragding mods or anything i wanna build my motor (block and head) to get the most out of what i have now.
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