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Old 05-29-2003, 08:15 PM   #1
Ken Levin
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Question Wagon Handling Comparo

What do you BAIC wagon owners think about getting together for a suspension comparison?

It would be great to be able to drive a wagon with a different aftermarket suspension than my own. I have the Ground Control/Eibach/KYB setup and am thinking of going with something different. To drive before I buy would be a big plus.

Perhaps at Sears/Infineon on June 28 or 29th? I'm not suggesting we track each others cars - the ring road would offer enough of a drive, no problem.

Happy Motoring
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:21 PM   #2
wrexr
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Default Sounds good...

Hey Ken,

This sounds like a good idea.
BTW, maybe we can meet before, so you can try mine out.


-Kevin
(white wagon, cusco susp.)
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:54 PM   #3
Ken Levin
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Kev - check your pms.

- Ken
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Old 05-30-2003, 12:06 PM   #4
AWD WROX
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Default Sure...

Sure, sounds like a great idea. I'm pondering the coilover upgrade...

I'll most likely be there on the 29th. You can compare all the nice coilover setups to my Whiteline springs n swaybar...

-Steve (White Wagon #3)

P.S. I was running HPDE 2B on May 25th. Handling was OK.
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Old 05-31-2003, 02:46 AM   #5
wylie
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Sounds like a great idea! Let me check my calendar.

I've got Prodrive springs on STi struts and Hotchkis sway bars among other things.
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Old 05-31-2003, 10:28 AM   #6
AntiochCali
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Quote:
Originally posted by wylie
Sounds like a great idea! Let me check my calendar.

I've got Prodrive springs on STi struts and Hotchkis sway bars among other things.
Hey, I'm thinking about the prodrive springs on the STi struts too...do the STi struts make any noticable difference? How's the car handle?

Thanks!
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Old 05-31-2003, 09:19 PM   #7
Lowball
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Quote:
Originally posted by wylie
Sounds like a great idea! Let me check my calendar.

I've got Prodrive springs on STi struts and Hotchkis sway bars among other things.
wylie-

what size are the hotchkis sway bars and do they sell them as a pair or can you get the rear only?

Lowball
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Old 06-01-2003, 03:12 PM   #8
wylie
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Quote:
do the STi struts make any noticable difference? How's the car handle?
The stock struts with Prodrive springs felt underdamped, not so with the STi struts - I think they are a great combo. Perfect handling balance compromise between ride comfort (not too firm for daily driving and road trips) and performance.

Quote:
what size are the hotchkis sway bars and do they sell them as a pair or can you get the rear only?
They are 1 inch in diameter and are hollow (so lighter than the stock bars, although I don't know by how much. Unfortunately, they are only sold as a pair and are a bit pricey, but they were actually designed to work together and were developed for the wagon (at least initially tested for the wagon) but work on the sedan as well.
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Old 06-01-2003, 03:24 PM   #9
Lowball
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Quote:
Originally posted by wylie


The stock struts with Prodrive springs felt underdamped, not so with the STi struts - I think they are a great combo. Perfect handling balance compromise between ride comfort (not too firm for daily driving and road trips) and performance.



They are 1 inch in diameter and are hollow (so lighter than the stock bars, although I don't know by how much. Unfortunately, they are only sold as a pair and are a bit pricey, but they were actually designed to work together and were developed for the wagon (at least initially tested for the wagon) but work on the sedan as well.
Huh...didn't know that about the bars...

Just wondering why you guys want to use the prodrive springs on the STi struts instead of just using the STi springs?

I have the STi struts (4-ways) and the STi springs (which are both the "Pink" set made by KYB). Are you guys talkinga bout a different STi strut/springs? Maybe I need to go back and re-read...
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Old 06-01-2003, 03:33 PM   #10
Lowball
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Default Re: Wagon Handling Comparo

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Levin
What do you BAIC wagon owners think about getting together for a suspension comparison?

It would be great to be able to drive a wagon with a different aftermarket suspension than my own. I have the Ground Control/Eibach/KYB setup and am thinking of going with something different. To drive before I buy would be a big plus.

Perhaps at Sears/Infineon on June 28 or 29th? I'm not suggesting we track each others cars - the ring road would offer enough of a drive, no problem.

Happy Motoring
I may be willing to come down on one of the days. My daughter is flying in from HI a few days before and it may be a nice outing for us...she would love seeing all the cars...she's of that age. The one we never grew out of...

Here is my suspension set up for all who give a hoot:

STi 4way adjustable struts and STi springs (struts set on 4/1 to dial out the oversteer from the swaybar being to big)
STi strut tops
STi lower arm brace
STi front control arm bushings
Perrin rear sway bar kit and rear endlinks (bar set on 22mm)

Any one know if I increase the swaybar in the front or add a rear strut tower bar will that decrease oversteer with the 22mm rear bar combo?

I know I can run my strut set up on 4/1 to practically eliminate the oversteer, but I don't know that I want to.

LB
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Old 06-01-2003, 03:45 PM   #11
wylie
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Quote:
Just wondering why you guys want to use the prodrive springs on the STi struts instead of just using the STi springs?
I tried the combo out, because I had Prodrive springs already and no one had tried it before. I would like to try the STi spring/Prodrive combo, but it would be nice to know exactly what the difference between the pink springs and the Prodrives are - I can't imagine there is a great deal of difference.

Quote:
Any one know if I increase the swaybar in the front or add a rear strut tower bar will that decrease oversteer with the 22mm rear bar combo?
To decrease oversteer, you need to set your rear sway bar to it's lowest setting (if you don't have it there already), or increase the sway bar rate in the front. A strut bar in the rear will make the rear stiffer and increase oversteer. A strut bar in the front would decrease oversteer, but the strut towers are close to the firwall anyway, so may not help that much.
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Old 06-01-2003, 07:40 PM   #12
Lowball
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Quote:
Originally posted by wylie


I tried the combo out, because I had Prodrive springs already and no one had tried it before. I would like to try the STi spring/Prodrive combo, but it would be nice to know exactly what the difference between the pink springs and the Prodrives are - I can't imagine there is a great deal of difference.



To decrease oversteer, you need to set your rear sway bar to it's lowest setting (if you don't have it there already), or increase the sway bar rate in the front. A strut bar in the rear will make the rear stiffer and increase oversteer. A strut bar in the front would decrease oversteer, but the strut towers are close to the firwall anyway, so may not help that much.
Yeah the swaybar is just to big. It's all ready adjusted to the smallest setting/least progressive/least amount of induced oversteer. I know a few tricks I can do before going to the front swaybar. Like put the stock endlinks back in. I just like the end links so I didn't really want to get rid of them.

I knew the front strut bar was just pretty much for looks and that the rear could make a differance but it should be about the last thing you try for the wagon.

I like the way the car handles now but I just want to be able to change my strut setting without creating major oversteer, which I don't like for track or for street for that mater. Auto-x it may be ok for sliding around cones more.
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Old 06-01-2003, 08:09 PM   #13
Steppin Razor
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i would love to come. i've got the tein type wagons and cusco swaybars. mondays and tuesdays are the best for me but if we plan far enough ahead, i can get a sunday off. let's just decide soon.
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Old 06-01-2003, 09:33 PM   #14
wylie
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Quote:
Yeah the swaybar is just to big. It's all ready adjusted to the smallest setting/least progressive/least amount of induced oversteer. I know a few tricks I can do before going to the front swaybar.
Lowball, the stock endlinks would help. You could try front endlinks, and/or the sedan sway bar in the rear.

I had the same problem with oversteering at the limit with the Whiteline 22mm adjustable in the rear, Kartboy endlinks, and rear strut brace. I think the combo of front and rear 1" Hotchkis bars (with the rear at middle setting) brought me back to neutral. I have the stock endlinks on at the moment, but may try the Hotchkis front and rear endlink combo in the future.

I am free on the weekends, but I will probably be away on the 28th, 29th. Anyone going to the CART race in Laguna Seca on the 15th? The 14th of June would work for me. Or the 21st (sat.)?
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Old 06-01-2003, 11:21 PM   #15
Ken Levin
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Question How about ....

OK - Sunday, June 29 at Sears/Infineon.

It's a NASA HPDE/race weekend. You don't need to sign up to run in the HPDE, but it's fun:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=367784

Only negative: $10 admission to the track.

What do you all think ?
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Old 06-01-2003, 11:35 PM   #16
Steppin Razor
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i think that's a terrible idea!! now i will be forced to pay $180 for HPDE!! fortunately i've always wanted to and i'm looking forward to it.

EDIT: to not going that is... i had this auto insurance thing i had to pay instead.

Last edited by Steppin Razor; 06-17-2003 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 06-10-2003, 09:16 PM   #17
Ken Levin
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Cool

Up
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Old 06-11-2003, 02:31 AM   #18
AntiochCali
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Quote:
Originally posted by AntiochCali


Hey, I'm thinking about the prodrive springs on the STi struts too...do the STi struts make any noticable difference? How's the car handle?

Thanks!
Hey all thanks for the input - I ended up getting the stock STi (non adjustable) struts and they came with the black STi springs. Much firmer than stock but not too uncomfortable on the freeway. I do not have excessive oversteer but I would like it an inch lower, not just for looks, but for the lower center of gravity, which I think would add to the handling.
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Old 06-11-2003, 03:15 AM   #19
Steppin Razor
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what wheel/tire combo are you running?
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Old 06-11-2003, 01:24 PM   #20
goldgrilla
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Default minor hijack

I'm not going to be able to do the comparo, but since you guys know what you're talking about, I'll hijack for a minute and ask your advice I'm planning on getting the prodrive springs pretty soon, and since mpj is having a sale, was looking at either the whiteline rear swaybar, or the whiteline rear strut tower bar. Any advice for what I should do first? No other suspension mods. Thanks
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Old 06-12-2003, 12:38 PM   #21
goldgrilla
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help
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Old 06-12-2003, 12:47 PM   #22
Lowball
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Quote:
Originally posted by goldgrilla
help
swaybar.

the rear strut tower brace should be the last thing you do.

this is just what i have heard. i can offer no explaination to back it up. you can PM gtguy and he can answer any suspension questions you may have.
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Old 06-12-2003, 08:45 PM   #23
Ken Levin
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You will impact the handling and notice it more with the swaybar upgrade.

However, for wagon owners, the strut tower brace is more important then for sedan folks. Sedans have a rear bulkhead adjacent to the strut towers which keeps the rear struts from flexing. The wagon has only wide open space
This is also why neither wagon nor sedan really needs a front strut tower brace: the struts are close to the firewall which keeps things rigid.

Go for the swaybar, save towards the rear brace. I hope you're not still on the OEM tires, changing those will show the greatest improvement.

Happy Motoring
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Old 06-12-2003, 11:08 PM   #24
goldgrilla
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Thanks for the advice, and no, I'm not still on the stock rubber. Subzeros and Kumho Ecstas did make a big difference
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Old 06-17-2003, 12:16 AM   #25
Danny
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Default wagon suspension

PLEASE have this comparo !!!

I want the sti 4 way adjustables for my wagon and I really really want to here the results.
I also wouldn't mind info on where to get the best deal for an all sti setup.
Thanks,
Dan
ps please do this comparo!!!!
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