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Old 05-30-2003, 12:47 AM   #1
mcsewrx
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Question STi with 400 miles on it being sold to me...

I just got a call from a dealer about a Sti with 400 miles on it. I asked how much they are willing to let it go. I was told that I could have it for sticker. I know that the car is now considered used and subject to certain depreciation. Will anyone give me his or her opinion regarding this unusual situation? I would like to work the price down with the guy, as I do not expect myself writing a check for MSRP. How much should one offer for the car?

I have not seen it. I was just told that the loan app fell through.

The guy visits this and other Subaru forum so whatever advice I get will probably get countered.

But some of you will probably help me get a clearer picture of what I should expect and do in the end.

Like is this even worth considering?
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Old 05-30-2003, 12:58 AM   #2
edubb11
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STi w/400 mi for sticker? Uh... NO! Just imagine what could have been done to that car in 400 miles... I know what I would have done
I am sure that you shouldn't have much of a problem finding one at a dealer with only delivery miles (20 or less) that they would be glad to sell to you for MSRP. But it depends on where you live. If you don't mind making a weekend road trip for one with delivery miles only and for MSRP that is a little farther away than your local dealer, that could also be an option.
I just went to my dealer to get my car serviced and he said (the owner) that he will sell me one for MSRP. But once again it depends where you are at, and the demand in your location. Hopefully this helps a little.

E Dubb
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:10 AM   #3
cky3396
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invoice baby invoice...

oh and they should give you new floormats and include any options already installed for free
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:22 AM   #4
Impreza01
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Ask for invoice;

It's been said that once someone signs the paper work, the value of the car drops 10% as used car value. The dealership is trying to rape you. You can get a new car at many places for MSRP.
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:28 AM   #5
mcsewrx
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I was thinking of invoice when I spoke with him. I also asked how old the previous owner was and he said about late twenties. How can one drive 400 miles in such little time? I had my WRX and it only had 18000 miles when I sold it after two years. Must be the excitement of driving an WRX/STi.

By the way I am also #12 on their wait list and I asked this morning why when I did a phantom inquiry on their dealership, they had a silver on silver for sale and when I made another call as myself I was told that my car has not arrived.

It is really sad that the guy I am dealing with had to go about the whatever policy the owner of the dealership imposed as soon as the STi started to pour in. He actually told me when I placed my deposit back in January that is not their practice to mark up their cars and now I hear them selling to walk-ins before filling up existing orders with deposits.

Makes one really disappointed.
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:35 AM   #6
Impreza01
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Actually, selling to walk-ins might be alright if the people with deposits had colors/wheel colors they wanted and thus won't buy a car different from what they want.

Back to the topic, ask for invoice, FIRM. Otherwise, tell him to sod off and go to a dealership willing to sell you a new car for MSRP.

Gimme a break (to the dealer), MSRP for a used car.
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:36 AM   #7
mcsewrx
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by the way the dealership is not Big Valley in Van Nuys as I refuse to even come near them. With the exception of Mike, the service advisor, everyone acts like a crook o'dile.

Thank you for those that responded. I have now a clearer picture. I shall wait.

Prices will go south one of these days. I will never buy the line "there will be no more coming until end of next year".

I still have my money and that is the most important.
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Old 05-30-2003, 02:15 AM   #8
Janq
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I say its invoice plus one years fee maint. _and_ service with a dealer loaner car as well as the factory warranty carries over to you beginning at the mileage of your purchase (not zero) and any options included with the car are provided at MSRP minus 15% (dlr. wholesale) excluding a set of mats which should be a freebie for your business. Get all of this in writing via a "We Owe" slip signed by the sales manager and/or an amendment to your sales doc to be signed by the sales manager and the finance manager.

The reason I say this is because there are dealers offering the STi at MSRP (many of them) on cars with less than 20 miles. Even fewer dealers are offering new units at Invoice + although they do have long waiting lists, but you aren't pressed for time.

The advantage here is in your hands.
Reason being you have a dealer with his own financed product (what, you thought dealers purchased their cars using cash or on consignement?!) sitting on the lot losing value by the day and costing the dealership money in interest at the same rate.
Further the dealer knows that this car is a 'used' car (check your state laws) and he'll try to appeal to the first mark that amble along (that's where you come in) and shows interest. He'll 'sell' you on the fact that this car is "special" and that everyone wants one and that you could have yours right now today.
Well facts are that everyone wants a _new_ STi not one that has been used and farted in for 400 miles. You don't know the history of the car and/or its break-in period by the previous 'owner'. Further, you have to wonder how did the dealer get into this situation in the first place? Most reputable dealers with 'special' cars such as this do not allow the buyer to drive off until the financing paperwork is complete and filed away in the F&I managers desk. This sounds just a bet sketchy.

One last thing, think about that little thing called 'depreciation'. If you buy this car at MSRP from the dealer, leave it on his lot overnight and return the next day with a change of heart and look to _sell_ it back to him guess what their used car manager/wholesaler will offer you? He'll offer you a wholsesale value _minus_ a depreciation for the 400 miles that they put on the car before you owned it! Now how does that make you feel?
Bad I hope. If so, then what I'm saying maybe sinking in.
So why would you spend your hard earned money to pay retail for something worth less than retail? Hmmm....

Again, the advantage is in your hands.
Wonder to yourself what happens if you walk on this deal?
One of three things will occur.
1) The sales manager will sweeten the pot to a degree and try to keep your deal 'hot'.
2) He'll watch you walk as another sucker, I mean customer, walks through the front door with STi dreams in his/her eyes.
3) The car will sit on the floor as a showroom draw for a few weeks and then be wholesaled out to another dealer (most likely a non-Subie oriented used car vendor)..

No matter what sceanrio occurs above the dealer will make his profit, because that's why he's in business. And somebody is going to pay for it, becuase thats the nature of the business.

So I encourage you to ask yourself, how badly do I want an STi.
When you have this conversation with yourself be sure to include both the rational side of you as well as the impulsive kid in you.
Do all the math, get your wits about you and _call_ the salesman (do not visit him in person...keep him guessing & retain your power/advantage) telling him you want exactly every item I detailed above.

I can tell you that just as with any other business decision/transaction, and yes this is business...not pleasure, you must maintain a sense of rational thought and balance. Also, never ever buy something that you cannot freely choose to walk away from. Otherwise that thing you lust & love so much will becomea mpnkey on your back and possibly the basis for your undoing.

Best of luck...let us know what you decide.

- Janq

"No thing made by man is worth the skin of a man's hand." - My Grandfather
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Old 05-30-2003, 02:27 AM   #9
Janq
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...Oh, and one last thing.

When the dealer acquiesces to your conditions, don't go walking in their all smug feeling like youv'e won. You've only won half the battle as you'll still need to meet with the F&I manager and don't think he won't know about your being a 'special' customer.
Further, if he refers to you by 'Mister' don't take that as being the Lexus treatment as remember you aren't buying a Lexus. No, thats a sign that you sir are againa a mark.

So, what do you do to protect your own interests?
As they say knowledge is power!

First off you should know your _exact_ FICO credit score. Then you should have estimates from at least one but preferbaly three other finacing sources toward the cost of a loan. Don't let the dealer talk you into putting down a huge sum of money on the car as remember this is an already depreciated and further guaranteed to depreciate product. You want to spreadout the termof that depreciation for as long as possible while retaining funds in your own pocket to at the least maintain their value if not appreciate (through investments).

Check and recheck any APR numbers quoted to you, and remember everything in the 'deal' is a negotiable item, with the exception of the shipping costs which have been prepaid to a third party. Refuse to pay the dealers advertising feee as that is a cost of business for him. Negotiate down or away and 'administration' fees he might want you to pay as that too is a cosy of doing business (same as paying the electric bill.. you don't see a seperate line item for that do you?).
Be prepared to walk at anytime if you feel the least bit taken for a ride or things get shady/sketchy. You don't need this deal, but they do and the F&I mgr. will catch hell from the sales mgr. and ultimately the dealer principal if you walk. The power & advantage is in your hands.

Again, best of luck.

- Janq

"...It's just a car!" - Janq

Last edited by Janq; 05-30-2003 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:29 AM   #10
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400 miles = abused car (for that kind of car). Remember that it's recommended for every car to have proper breakin and you may not have problem right now but maybe in later...

I wouldn't touch it either at invoice. I would touch it after 18000 miles from somebody else since I would know it would have been properly broken since most of people here will take REALLY good car of this car. YES, they will abuse it but most people will do proper breakin period.

Just my 2 cents,

Sylvain
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:01 AM   #11
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there's some really good info and recommendations in this thread. I'll keep it simple. there is nearly 0% chance that car was properly broken in. Who buys a car and sells it before the end of the break in period? And...if you're going to sell a car with 400 miles on it, aren't you going to redline it through the gears at least once to know what you're missing?

If you buy the car, be very aggressive about having things checked and replaced under warranty.

good luck!
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza01
Actually, selling to walk-ins might be alright if the people with deposits had colors/wheel colors they wanted and thus won't buy a car different from what they want.

Back to the topic, ask for invoice, FIRM. Otherwise, tell him to sod off and go to a dealership willing to sell you a new car for MSRP.

Gimme a break (to the dealer), MSRP for a used car.
This is a common strategy that dealerships use to get more cars from the factory. They claim that they still have open orders and the factory keeps sending them cars. Old Trick
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:36 AM   #13
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There are lots of people here who have lots of high expectations

The plain and simple fact is, if you want one now, you can have it for the same price as one you might have to wait 4 months to get. Is the car actually used? If it has not been titled, then the warranty doesn't even start until you pick it up anyhow.

What is the likelyhood that you will keep the car until the 60K powertrain warranty runs out anyhow? If you are like the most of us on here, the odds are pretty slim.
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:43 AM   #14
CoOlSlY
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I personnally keep my car only a year or two but when I go to the garage, it's because something is broke and I like the fact to know that I'm the one responsible for that without saying "MAYBE it's because the other owner has fu*c*ed something up on the car before I do...

Just my 2 cents,

Sylvain
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Old 05-30-2003, 06:18 PM   #15
ERIC DRAVEN
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invoice with lifetime free oil changes.i still would not get one with 400 MILES!!!!!!!!!! why does it have 400 miles on it?been beat on and stomped on!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-30-2003, 06:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Is the car actually used? If it has not been titled, then the warranty doesn't even start until you pick it up anyhow.
if the car has never been titled, the warranty wont start until someone buys it? what about if the car is a demo with 5000 miles on it?
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift


if the car has never been titled, the warranty wont start until someone buys it? what about if the car is a demo with 5000 miles on it?
Warranty is based on mileage or on (date of sale + 3yrs), whichever hits the mark first.

In other words, with a 3yr/36k warranty, if your mileage hits 36K in the first year, your warranty ends right there.

Or if you drive like a grandma and put on just 1000 miles a year, your warranty will run out in 3000 miles (when the 3 years are up).

This is regardless of the mileage of the car when you purchased it. As far as Subaru is concerned, their factory warranty ends in 3 yrs or 36K miles, whichever arrives quicker.....the mileage at which the dealership sold the car is immaterial.
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:26 PM   #18
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Of course the powertrain warranty is good until 60K miles....is there a duration with the powertrain warranty ? like 5 years ?
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:38 PM   #19
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an engine oil leak will be covered under the power train warranty?
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:40 PM   #20
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I know a guy that bought a Mini Cooper S for MSRP with 3K miles on it. He said the dealer had a few like that. The Mini may have been a car used for a press event or something like that.

When I bough my WRX, I made sure it only had delivery miles on it, ~10 IIRC. I wouldn't pay MSRP for a used car. Worst case, wait a month and buy a new one for MSRP or less.
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:23 PM   #21
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I wouldnt buy it. Part of getting a new car is treating it right for the first miles so that it will last longer. Besides you wont get the new car smell.
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:55 PM   #22
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Smells bad to me; I'd pass given that you are arready waiting for a new one.
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:35 PM   #23
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I personally will never buy ANY car with over 10-15 miles on the odometer. I would like to nurture the car myself from its infancy to its prime. 400 miles has completed the infancy !
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Old 05-30-2003, 11:34 PM   #24
mcsewrx
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All your opinions and suggestions are extremely sensible.
However, I had to scratch an itch that kind of lingered since I got the call. I told myself if I'm ever going to relieve the itch I am having for the STi, I should do it and be prepared to pay no more than 25k for it with the appropriate warranty protection and other stuff that should come with the car. So the itch was relieved, I went to Thousand Oaks Subaru and check out the car.

The car which was on the service bay had about 150 miles on the odometer not the 400 miles the salesperson claimed it had. I was told that he had to quote me a higher mileage for he didn't know the actual mileage at the time he called me. I checked the car with a friend and the only thing I observed was there was some gummy material inside the fender well. Most of you will know what this may or may not signify other than that the cars looks like it was brand new.

The MSRP that was quoted to me became 5K over and that was the kicker. I didn't have to restrain myself because what I have in front of me is the obvious. It was a marked up used car.

I just had to leave.

All I can say now is the trip to TO was well worth the time. I did relieve the itch and now prepared to do the waiting game. No matter how long it takes. I waited for a long time for the Sti. It wouldn't hurt to wait a couple of months more. Actually, If have any indication that an All-black interior will ever be offered, I shall wait for that.


Thank you for all your responses. You guys are just great and may you have a safe and wonderful time with whatever you guys are driving.

Cheers!
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Old 05-30-2003, 11:42 PM   #25
Janq
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Making that 'walk' was the best decision you could have made.
Go treat yourself to a beer, the wait won't be long.

Some other mark will gladly pay retail for that used (and I suspect abused) car.

- Janq
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