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Old 06-14-2003, 10:07 PM   #26
Streetman
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linsavy-

That's what I've got. Not even a tach. However, I'm glad to not have the power windows and such. I did, however, junk the cheap (and ripped) seats for WRX seats. Bolt right up, and make the interior look like new again. Actually, I've got a radio (aftermarket) and AC too. It's the perfect car to bolt things to.

Now, if I could just bolt up a WRX engine that easy, I'd be happy.
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Old 06-14-2003, 11:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
What would you recommend dropping in here then? Just the DOHC? I suppose I could do that, if the price was right. Not what I wanted, but hey, I'm looking to do this cheap.

Right now, I'm looking simple, one weekend, drop in, and plug it together. What's my best bet?
I'd recommend the 1997-1999 2.5L DOHC. They should be relatively common considering the large number of Legacy Outbacks and Legacy GT's sold in the first few years. These were popular models here in New England and in the Northwest. Everything looks like it's compatible with the 1.8L layout, including EGR and the extra sensors for the fuel tank that aren't on the 2.2L.

-WaC
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Old 06-14-2003, 11:36 PM   #28
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Wayne,

If I'm not mistaken, didin't Subaru produce a few DOHC's in early 99 that had an updated head gasket, and some other smaller issues resolved. I recall you need to check the serial number, but this engine is suppoedly the magic bullet.

Can you lead me to something on it, or refresh my memory? There's something to it, I'm sure. I sourced a 99 engine only, a month ago for $400. I passed though, because at the time I was thinking I'd need all sorts of other stuff. Now, I'm thinking if I get get the right one, this sucker will plug and play, in a weekend, and give me 50 horses I lack.

Anyone?
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Old 06-14-2003, 11:37 PM   #29
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something else I thought about. I remember something about having an updated (stronger) bottom end, but still dohc top end. Is this right?
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Old 06-15-2003, 12:53 PM   #30
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im still cofused as to what i can put in my OBS. I have a 96, with a 2.2

Jiffy
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:58 PM   #31
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Maybe start a post about a 2.2, and you'll get more answers.
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Old 06-15-2003, 07:49 PM   #32
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something else I thought about. I remember something about having an updated (stronger) bottom end, but still dohc top end. Is this right?
I don't know too much about these, but all I heard is Subaru switched from Phase I blocks to Phase II blocks sometime during the 1998 model year. Everything else is consistent within the model years, e.g. same headgaskets, sensors, ECU, etc. for all MY98 and MY99 Imprezas. All MY98's have DOHC heads and thick headgaskets, and all MY99's have SOHC heads and thin headgaskers.

The MY99 Impreza (and Forester) engine was the first to switch headgaskets and get the SOHC engine. The Legacy waited until 2000 to do that.

You need to find out which car your 2.5L engine in question came from...
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Old 06-15-2003, 08:00 PM   #33
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im still cofused as to what i can put in my OBS. I have a 96, with a 2.2
You're in slightly worse shape than the MY96 1.8L to 2.5L transition, since you may have to jumper or add some wires to support fuel tank sensors that weren't used in the 2.2L engine.

Your best bet is a DOHC 2.5L, since the worst thing that can happen is your car will fail an emissions test made at an ultra-sensitive test station. I highly doubt this will ever happen, though.

It appears that Subaru only added fuel tank sensors and emissions equipment (EGR, tumble-generator valves, etc.) on an as-needed basis. If it wasn't needed for a certain engine/tranny combination, it was left off to save money.

-WaC
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by wac

It appears that Subaru only added fuel tank sensors and emissions equipment (EGR, tumble-generator valves, etc.) on an as-needed basis. If it wasn't needed for a certain engine/tranny combination, it was left off to save money.
Which cars does this apply to? Legacies? Imprezas? This stuff could have some interesting complications to my EJ20 swap.

-Jon
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Old 06-16-2003, 09:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by wac


You're in slightly worse shape than the MY96 1.8L to 2.5L transition, since you may have to jumper or add some wires to support fuel tank sensors that weren't used in the 2.2L engine.

Your best bet is a DOHC 2.5L, since the worst thing that can happen is your car will fail an emissions test made at an ultra-sensitive test station. I highly doubt this will ever happen, though.

It appears that Subaru only added fuel tank sensors and emissions equipment (EGR, tumble-generator valves, etc.) on an as-needed basis. If it wasn't needed for a certain engine/tranny combination, it was left off to save money.

-WaC
Wayne

what year, dohc 2.5's are we talking 97'- and up?

Jiffy
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Old 06-16-2003, 09:54 PM   #36
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Subaru mixed and matched emissions equipment on all cars sold in the USA. The only way to know if swaps are "compatible" is to compare the complete engine wiring diagram for both the donor and receptor.

As far as I know, all (non-turbo) DOHC 2.5L's have similar, if not identical, emissions equipment. They appeared on 1996-1999 Legacy, 1998 Impreza and 1998 Forester only (at least in the US).
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Old 06-16-2003, 11:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by wac
Subaru mixed and matched emissions equipment on all cars sold in the USA. The only way to know if swaps are "compatible" is to compare the complete engine wiring diagram for both the donor and receptor.

As far as I know, all (non-turbo) DOHC 2.5L's have similar, if not identical, emissions equipment. They appeared on 1996-1999 Legacy, 1998 Impreza and 1998 Forester only (at least in the US).

im gonna start looking for one out of a legacy then, would i need the ECU for the 2.5 or run it off the 2.2 ecu

Jiffy
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Old 06-16-2003, 11:35 PM   #38
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hey, if the 1.8 or 2.2 ECU makes it run rich, why not just get a less restrictive intake? Will the ecu still run richer?
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Old 06-16-2003, 11:50 PM   #39
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im gonna start looking for one out of a legacy then, would i need the ECU for the 2.5 or run it off the 2.2 ecu
Use the DOHC 2.5L ECU. It'll give you an extra 200 rpm redline (or thereabouts) compared with the 2.2L ECU. It's been so long I don't even remember the exact number.
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Old 06-17-2003, 12:08 AM   #40
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good call.

I'll probably be axing my ideas of the 2.0T swap for now, and shopping for a 2.5.
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Old 06-17-2003, 12:34 AM   #41
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Streetman- Ide say the closest match as far is plugging right in would be an earlier DOHC 2.5. All the sensors will plug in as well as injectors. However I do believe there is a different idle air control setup. the DOHC 2.5s have a seperate valve on the intake manifold whereas the 1.8s was in the throttle body. This means to use the 1.8 harness and ECU the original 2.5 IAC has to be blocked off and the 1.8s IAC valve and throttle body has to be used. EGR is slightly different but will match up. later SOHC doesnt have EGR and it can easily be disabled but im not sure if you have emissions testing or anyhting where you are.

AS far as MAF to MAF, it doesnt matter, you can take a MAP car and run it off a MAF sensor just fine. In fact i think subaru cheaped out and thats why they switched to MAP.

running rich. WIth a MAF car, if you have a less restrictive intake it will flow more air, the MAF sensor sees this and adds fuel. you would have to trick the ECU by tweaking the MAF signal if you wanted to use the 1.8 ECU or just live with it.

Either way, depending on what you can get an engine for, you can have either a SOHC or DOHC 2.5 in your car reliably working for a pretty good price. THe SOHC will take more modification as far as changing electrical connections etc but either one will go in over a weekend if youre good with your hands.
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Old 06-17-2003, 02:03 AM   #42
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Not good news about the idle air control, Hawk. One of the reasons I've started thinking about engine swaps is becasue of the error code I got. Can't recall the number, but it was for the idle air control, and $337 at autozone. OUCH! I figured I'll deal with the occassional high idle, and find a whole new engine, before I drop over 300 buck into a 176K mile engine. Oh yeah, aloso got error code 420, which could mean anything.

BTW, you think all this is worth the headache, or should I just switch back to thinking 2.0T. I was thinking about getting a whole rolled car, steal the drivetrain, and part the rest. I'd love to tear apart a whole car, but I'm wondering if I want to deal with dozens of emails, people backing out, etc. Hmmmm....thinking out loud.

The other side of the coin, worried that I find a 2.5, drop it in, and find tons of little items that don't match up, and I nickle and dime myself right up to the same cost of the 2.0T.

What to to, what to do?
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Old 06-17-2003, 07:51 AM   #43
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Not good news about the idle air control, Hawk. One of the reasons I've started thinking about engine swaps is becasue of the error code I got. Can't recall the number, but it was for the idle air control, and $337 at autozone. OUCH! I figured I'll deal with the occassional high idle, and find a whole new engine, before I drop over 300 buck into a 176K mile engine. Oh yeah, aloso got error code 420, which could mean anything.
I just compared the '97 1.8L wiring diagram with the DOHC 2.5L - they use the same idle control circuit. The SOHC 2.5L cars have the new stepper motor-type idle control, but you should be fine with the DOHC.

Get that idle code if you can. It might tell you something.

Code P0420 is Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold. I had quite a few of those when my last cat was disintegrating from too many hits with obstacles. It could also be caused by an exhaust leak.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:33 PM   #44
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does any of this matter, if you have a auto, or manual tranny,
i have an auto.

Jiffy
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Old 06-17-2003, 07:48 PM   #45
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Error 1507 idler air control underspeed error. Need a new idle air control?

Error code 420 could mean oxygen sensor, cat, random exhaust line is clogged or leaking, or I didn't tighten the gas cap. Or perhaps, my car is a stoner. I've read many posts on error code 420, none of which have the same info. I'm not about to start buying $100 sensors, only to find out that I need another $100 cat. 2.5's are cheap, and I'll get that stuff with it. Hell, I could spend as much on sensors, as I do on a whole new engine.

Still fighting the urge to buy a whole WRX, and get tranny, brakes, wheels and tires, etc. Oh yeah, another 117 HP vs 55. Mmmmm....horseys.
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Old 06-17-2003, 11:59 PM   #46
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I dont think you'll nickle and dime yourself that far. I have been planning an STI EJ20 swap for sometime. It is MUCH more involved than a 2.5L swap off the 1.8 ECU. my 2.5 swap is more or less a temporary swap until i get the money and rest of the parts for my STI swap. if you get a complete 2.5 engine and harness youll have just about everything you need and can do it in a weekend. FOr an EJ20 swap you will have to use the 2.0 ECU meaning splicing the wiring harness from the 2.0 into the existing harness from the car and changing the pinouts at the ECU tomatch. then you also have to swap front crossmembers and exhausts, and youll need to change the hood for one with a scoop for the intercooler, and countless other things. And in my case im also changing the rest of the driveline cause my L driveline wont hadnle the power/my driving style. its much more involved.
I went to the 2.5 because my 1.8 was on its last legs and in my case a 2.5 was more available and the extra power was welcome.

Idle air control- I amthinking of the valve on the right side of the manifold after the throttle body on the earlier DOHC 2.5s. Im trying to go off memory so i could be wrong. what im thinking of may be EGR related? sorry, dont mean to put out bad info. either way, if you use the 1.8 throttle body on the 2.5 everything wil be fine, in your case it soundslike you mayneed a new one though?
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Old 06-18-2003, 02:52 PM   #47
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Hawk-

If I go with a 2.5, I'm looking at plug an play.

If I go with the 2.0, I'm getting a whole car. I am not going to splice anything. It would be worth it to replace at the wiring with new.

Quote:
And in my case im also changing the rest of the driveline cause my L driveline wont hadnle the power/my driving style.
The L, RS, and WRX trannies are all made from the same material. One is not stronger than the other. Different gearing, for sure. But no strength is gained in the tranny.

On the gearing note, can anyone tell me what gearing I've got in my 97 Brighton 1.8, and show me some proof? I'm getting conflicting info.
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Old 06-18-2003, 05:18 PM   #48
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The L, RS, and WRX trannies are all made from the same material. One is not stronger than the other. Different gearing, for sure. But no strength is gained in the tranny.
Are you quite sure about that? I don't think that's true. I know for a fact that the BC/BF Legacy transmission differed between the turbo and naturally aspirated models; for example, the turbo 5MT's gears were shotpeened and some parts were case hardened.

I guess you could say the material is the same, but they were treated differently.
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Old 06-18-2003, 06:22 PM   #49
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You're talking about a legacy. I'm not familiar with them really. Impreza? The only Tranny that has been made stronger is the STi. Baring that, you're just choosing gear ratio. Do a search, it's been confirmed by many in the know.
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Old 06-18-2003, 10:40 PM   #50
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In my situation im going for an STI Type RA driveline. the ratios are closer, the final drive is 4.444 and i thought they used the R-180 rear diff. I also beleive that the gearbox is stronger.
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