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Old 06-19-2003, 03:09 AM   #51
Kostamojen
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Streetman, can I have the heads off of your EJ18 when you are done with this? I'd really like that extra 5hp and 10 torque you have compaired to my older EJ18

Anyhow, if and when I do a swap, im doing the whole shabang. ECU and everything. No half-ass cut-n-paste job for me, even if I have to swap out gas tanks to do it. (EJ25 or EJ20T, which ever one I end up getting...)

The only other way I would do it would be to build up an EJ25 internally and get a nice aftermarket ECU to run the engine and use the stock EJ18 ECU to just run the fans and such. More complicated of course, but its another option ive heard of that could work well (albiet cost more)
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Old 06-19-2003, 07:35 AM   #52
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Quote:
The only other way I would do it would be to build up an EJ25 internally and get a nice aftermarket ECU to run the engine and use the stock EJ18 ECU to just run the fans and such. More complicated of course, but its another option ive heard of that could work well (albiet cost more)
Don't even bother with an aftermarket ECU that does not run the "fans and such". There are more than a few available now that can be a total ECU replacement.

Just make sure to buy one with enough inputs and outputs to support radiator fan(s), purge valve, tachometer output, idle control, boost control, etc.

-WaC
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Old 06-19-2003, 01:52 PM   #53
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Kost- if youre going to do it right, than dont waste the money on the EJ25, go all out EJ20. I did the 2.5 swap as a temporary fix for my leaky 1.8 over a break from school. Ide kinda like to see the difference between my 2.5 off the 1.8 ECU and an identicle L with a SOHC 2.5 and the proper ECU. I bet there wont be much difference, although there should be some. My car runs pretty darn well for the $200 it cost me to do the swap.
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Old 06-19-2003, 03:50 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Streetman
Hawk-



The L, RS, and WRX trannies are all made from the same material. One is not stronger than the other. Different gearing, for sure. But no strength is gained in the tranny.
I read from Grassroots Motorsports that the RS has a stronger main shaft than the L tranny. Their sources were Cobb and Vishnu. I don't know how much difference that will make though as the weak points are the gears and synchros.
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Old 06-19-2003, 04:57 PM   #55
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None. Everyone who turns up the boost and drives like a jackass, breaks one of the first three gears. main shaft? Never heard of a problem there.

I was all up on getting a tranny too, until I started to read some more. There's nothing to be gained, unless you are just looking for something newer, or with different gearing. Bottom line, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
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Old 06-20-2003, 03:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk296
Kost- if youre going to do it right, than dont waste the money on the EJ25, go all out EJ20. I did the 2.5 swap as a temporary fix for my leaky 1.8 over a break from school. Ide kinda like to see the difference between my 2.5 off the 1.8 ECU and an identicle L with a SOHC 2.5 and the proper ECU. I bet there wont be much difference, although there should be some. My car runs pretty darn well for the $200 it cost me to do the swap.
$200 excluding the engine? Hmm... That sounds pretty damn good, I was planning for more like a grand to do the swap properly, excluding the engine... But if I save $800 using the 1.8 ECU, might as well do that and throw in some cams, port and polishing, and some low-scale engine management! Heck, if I can find an EJ25 for $600 or less I could afford this right now...

A full EJ20 Swap just takes forever to do, ive helped/watched a local member (EddyRS) do the EJ20 swap on his RS, and it was too much for me to say the least, especially since I know squat about wiring... Combine that with the extra cost of the engine and piping, it would be about double that of an EJ25 swap especially since I would have to either get a new hood with a scoop or buy a FMIC, in either case the costs would pile up quite a bit.

As for the Tranny, yes the L driveshaft is considerably smaller. Whether this would be a problem with anything less than 300hp, I have no idea... I do know my L also has the cable clutch and is mounted in a very different fasion from the newer transmitions, and cant use any other flywheels with it (which sucks, but the old L one is aparently ~10lbs lighter than an RS flywheel already) or the STI tranny mount Ill take the better clutch feel and lighter weight though.
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:00 PM   #57
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yeah, it depeds on the dress of the engine. My engine i got included a brand new 2.5L flywheel clutch and presure plate. had an alternator (i used my 1.8s though) new A/C compressor, and 02 style P/S pump. had all the sensors and things too. the $200 went into new P/S parts to convert to the newer style with the remote resevoir, $50 of that went to spark plug wires, and the rest on various electrical connections and a new throwout bearing throttle body gaskets etc.
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:36 PM   #58
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Hey, I just figured out that my 1.8 is a SOHC. Why was everyone telling me to go with a DOHC 2.5??? I just didn't question it, figured everyone was right. Looked at the engine for the first time closely, nope! It's SOHC for sure.

So this changes things a bit. I'm not thinking the 99 and newer would be the way to go. Figure I could find a nice 99 cheap as this point, yes?

You still say it's one weekend?

My plan is to keep the tranny the same, as it's supposedly got a different something from the RS, making it just one more part to buy. I figure with 110 HP, that tranny hasn't taken any abuse, even in 176,500 miles. You concur?

I'm planning on doing this fairly soon, I think, as I've got all sorts of goodies I need to swap onto the car. Whatcha think? heading down the right path?
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Old 06-27-2003, 03:58 PM   #59
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As you have discovered the EJ18 is SOHC. I never said it was any different. I said DOHC was best for plug and play because most connectors and EGR things will match up. Im unsure about the 99 SOHC, i have no experiance with that.

Between DOHC and 00 and on SOHC the DOHCs fuel injectors will plug right into the existing 1.8 harness while new connectors need to be added for the 00 and on SOHCs.

ignition coil from the DOHC will plug into the 1.8 harness if using the 1.8 ECU. if using 00 and up engines the 1.8 coil must be used, this means there are no plug wires that match up to teh 1.8 coil that have long enough leads on the plug end to reach in the deeper SOHC hole. so custom plug wires are in order. keep this in mind when it comes time to replace.

no EGR on 00 and up. once again im unsure of 99. so if you need to keep EGR then adapting it to a 2.5 would be easier on a DOHC that already has it.

also keep in mind crank trigger differences between autos and manuals on the newer SOHC 2.5s, they were all the same on the older DOHC 2.5s (same as your 1.8s).

so because more parts would simply plug in to the DOHC it might be easier. Once again Iam unfamiliar with the 99 SOHC 2.5 so i cannot comment on any similarities or differences.

Supermoose has just finished a DOHC swap in his FWD OBDI 93 L, might want to ask him.

I have over 8,000 miles on my SOHC 01' engine a this time in my 95 L. its running great.

As long as you compare whatever engine you get to your 1.8 while its in th car, have it well planned out and all the parts laying on the table ready to go, with the needed tools, it should easily be completed in a weekend.
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Old 07-04-2003, 01:23 PM   #60
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Hawk-

Let me see if I've got this straight. If I get the SOHC (think 99 was same as 00, except for the MAF vs MAP. Don't know of any other issues.)

1) I'll need new connectors for the injectors. Simple splice? Can I use my old ones? How about WRX injectors?
2) I get to get some custom plug wires. Ohhh...extra 1-2 HP
3) I need no EGR, Indiana has no emissions. CEL issues?
4) I don't know how to resolve crank trigger differences. $50 in parts?

Those sound pretty simple, really. I just have attached a stigma in my mind to the DOHC engines as being week. That's why the replaced them, you know. Also, if I decide to get aftermarket parts, the DOHC is often a little oddball that doesn't have as much.

On the other hand, if we're talking this costs me $1000 vs $600, I might be inclined to save the $400. Then again, will I be driving it, wondering if that head gasket is going to hold up all the time?
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Old 07-04-2003, 10:59 PM   #61
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Just to add input....

I'm currently on my next project car (After my RS/WRX conversion). I have a 93 L wagon, which I am putting in my 00 RS 2.5L into. Since I had this left over from my Conversion I figured it was good start (& to get Kostamojen off my back with him wanting to put it in his L, as it was just wasting away in my garage )

The route I'm going is a little more extreme. The L I bought is an AWD 1.8L Automatic. Interior was shot, and the engine has over 220K miles on it and is leaking out of every place imaginable and then some (I've counted at least 11 leaks). Basically the car was ready to be scrapped.

In fact that's how I got the car. I have a REALLY good relationship with a Subaru Dismantler here in NorCal. They knew I was looking for a Impreza wagon (93-01) so they went out and found the car for me, of course the also sold me all the parts to put life back into this little wagon. In fact it should be way better then when it came off the assembly line.

This is the list of whats being done to it.

1. Replacing engine with my RS 2.5 SOHC (only 14K miles on it)
2. Converting Tranny to Manual, using a 2000 RS 5-Speed
3. Replacing rear diff with 00RS LSD
4. Drive shaft is from a 00 OBS
5. Suspension is from my 00RS (only 1500miles on when upgraded)
6. Complete Brakes/Hubs/Axles from a 98 RS
7. 00 RS Wheels
8. Complete 00 OBS Interior change (Dash/Door Panels/Seats/Plastic/Carpet/Headliner) All Grey and black
9. 97OBS Hood/Lights/Grill
10. 00 OBS Front Bumper
11. 02 WRX Rear Muffler
12. Rear Hatch with Spoilers from a 00 OBS
13. 00 RS Side Skirts
14. 00 RS Leather Steering wheel and White Instrument Guage cluster.

The only thing holding me up is that I am still waiting on the wiring harness from the yard. The wiring should come from a 00 or 01 Manual Forester, it is almost impossible to find a wrecked RS these days. The Forester use the same dash and engine as that of the RS, so it should be a direct swap. If not I have a cut 01 Harness that I can reasemble to use. (Have the connectors from my previous Conversion). But I am not looking forward to another splice job.

As you can see, when I get done the car will be practically brand new. After what I had to go thru with my RS/WRX Conversion, I want to do only a Direct remove and replace swap. But because it is how I am I tend to go a little overboard with things.

When I am done, I should have spend no more the $6000 for everything except the engine (Yes that includes the price of the L Wagon too..... )

This will be my beater/ Rallycross car. I keep my WRX Conversion in prestine condition (Show-car clean) all the time.......it my pride and joy. Kostamojen can vouch whole heartedly with that claim. The wagon will be my dirt car.

Cheers

EddyL.
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Old 07-07-2003, 01:32 AM   #62
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I retained all of my solinoids and sensors for theEGR just blocked them off. I did this so i would not get a CEL, i do not know if you can remove these without getting a CEL. I never tried that. wasnt a big deal to keep them plugged in and mount them somehwere so i did. The lines to teh evap canister and solinoid are routed slightly differently and can be alittle confusing but can be switched over properly.

Fuel injectors. The 1.8s injectors will work but i am unsure of how it runs as far as air/fuel is concerned. I just kept the 2.5s to be safe. this required the newer connector (simple splice will work fine). Have not tried the WRXs.

crank trigger- if the engine is an 00- current SOHC 2.5 from a MANUAL trans car, you will need to change the crank trigger. for this you can use the one off your 1.8. The 1.8s is the same one used on the newer auto cars and all the older EJ engines.

on a SOHC you may need you add the newer style temp sensor and splice the proper connector on for the temp guage. or if you can get an adapter for the smaller one from the 1.8 you can retain that. for the 2nd temp sensor that the ECU reads, you can reuse the 1.8s.

basically ide say it depends on what engine you get as far as cost. DOHC might be cheaper to purchase and would require slightly less in parts and labor to install. SOHC might be more expensive because they are newer, and you will have to buy those parts.

one more thing- If you take a SOHC from a newer car with an AUTO trans, and want to use it with a manual on your brighton, although the crank trigger will be proper, It may not have the timing belt guide over the timing belt sprocket that is on the crankshaft. its just a small piece of metal and 2 bolts. you will need this too.
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Old 07-07-2003, 02:16 PM   #63
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You think the SOHC could be done for an extra $100 in parts? $200?

I really want the SOHC, just for the piece of mind. I've got it stuck in my head that the DOHC had crap for a head gasket. Plus, getting a newer engine, lower miles, will last longer. I'm planning on keeping this car for a long time for my off road and winter, throw it sideways, don't worry about that dent, scratches add character car.

Hey does anyone know about the magic "silver bullet" engine made late 98, or early 99? supposedly had a really strong bottom end, and the head gasket had been fixed? Can't recall all the details, but I know there's something to the middle fo the changeover.

wac-
I just reread what you said about the magic bullet engine. I think I've got it. In 98, they switched to the phase 2 block, which is stronger. However, they kept the DOHC, and THICKER head gasket. The best of all worlds, truly.

Is this correct?

If it is, maybe I can get the best of both worlds, PLUS be able to do a little more plug and play being that it's a 98.

Damn, changed my mind from beginning of posting to the end. I think it's time I actually get on this.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:13 AM   #64
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My buddy with a 98 Legacy just got broadsided, car is totaled. What a coincidence. He said the guy hit the drivers side wheel. suspension damage, and axel shoved the engine, he doesn't know how bad. Insurance has the car now, I'm looking into what it would take to get it.

Did any of the 98 Legacy 2.5's get the so called "magic bullet"?

What other parts might I want off the legacy?
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Old 07-17-2003, 05:29 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by EddyRS
(& to get Kostamojen off my back with him wanting to put it in his L, as it was just wasting away in my garage )

This will be my beater/ Rallycross car. I keep my WRX Conversion in prestine condition (Show-car clean) all the time.......it my pride and joy. Kostamojen can vouch whole heartedly with that claim. The wagon will be my dirt car.

Cheers

EddyL.


Anyhow, I might be getting a 00/01 RS engine with ECU and wiring harness here soon, but Im worried about the specifics like the gas tank, lines, gauge cluster compatiblity and such with my '95 1.8L... Im hoping that Eddy will find out, but any insight on this would be usefull so I can figure out what I need exactly in advance in my specific case
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Old 09-10-2003, 06:50 PM   #66
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Just revisiting this, as it's still on my mind. I've got a guy with a blown 99 2.5 (cylinder 3. Shocker). I might offer him next to nothing, as he's had it a while now.

Just wondering if anyone has any updates, problems, new info, etc. Anything to give me more knowledge would be great before I try to pull this off.
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Old 09-16-2003, 12:49 PM   #67
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so... I have been reading and researching like crazy getting ready for my swap... 95 2.2l for a 00 2.5l sohc and I am still fuzzy on a couple of points... the car now has wrx underpinnings (5 speed trans etc) and is still using the 2.2l auto ecu to run a 2.2l ... I want to try a 2.5l that I have on the floor with fresh head gaskets ... I am not sure if the donor 2.5l car was 5mt or 4ae ( for crank sensor??) how can I tell? what it the belt guide (a small metal piece and 2 bolts?) and will this swap work like the 1.8l or is this way off base...
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Old 09-18-2003, 10:50 PM   #68
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IM assuming there is no flywheels or flexplate on it. THe crank sensor trigger ring will tell you. Undo the 1 bolt holdng the crank sensor in. pull it out. You can peek in there, Might have to remove the alternaotr belt. It will have either 6 teeth or lots of teeth. And yes the manual cars had a Piece of metal held in with 2 bolts across the crankshaft sprocket, i dont know if you can see this through the crank sensor hole or not.
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:14 AM   #69
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so u are still on the dielemma. the head gasket issue on the DOHC motor is not that bad. i swapped mine out for security, they have a newer style 4 layer headgasket that is good. $60 and 13 hours in my garage later i have a motor with new headgasket to make myself feel more secure. i guess it was cheap insurance. if u are doing a motorswap, u shouldnt be worrying about a headgasket.

as far as that is concerned, u might as well get hte DOHC for the heads, bc they are arguably better in some senses. ive heard people talk about them a bundle, but i simply think the issue with swapping to SOHC was the $$$ factor. lighter valvetrain mass too when rotating. enough on that debate, but the bottom line would be that if u somhow blew out your bottom end, then buy a phase 2 shortblock and swap that sucker in. higher compression, stronger block, pistons, etc. ud hav the unicorn engine-- with NEW HEADGASKETS :P

regardless, teh 98 DOHC RS motor swap is much easier, just run the 1.8L ECU and plug in everything. EVERYTHING. im sure u've read my rite up on how the motor swap went in my car. ive got a hacked ECU that lets me have no rev-limiter (cost me $200) so that problem is solved. u cant spin 7K on a EJ25 ecu regardless.

yeha, my sugestion is to:

a. go balls out and put in a EJ20 turbo of sorts (id recommend JDM closed deck bc thats what im putting in a car rite now)

or

b. put in the DOHC motor as a simple plug/play. or if u get a good enough deal on the SOHC motor, throw that in with an added amount of work.


and regardless:

c. stop posting and wondering abut piddly things, and make your car FAST!!!


oh yeha. my swap took less than 24 hours to make it run.
DOHC makes it a weekend deal
h
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:25 AM   #70
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Hard to give up the 1.8 while it's still got life. I'm trying like hell to kill her. So far just a bad 02 sensor. Not bad for 180K miles. Oh yeah, wasted a cv joint off road too. As all of life is an experiment, I decided to see what happens if you just drive it forever with clicking half shafts. Answer? It finally disingrates, and shoots metal pieces through the boot, knocking aff the bottom of your car. Really cool destructive sound.

So anyhow, tell me about the ECU hack. Who did it? Is it a full remap? Can they do it on a dyno? I'm not looking just for 165HP once I go 2.5. I've held the debate on whether 200HP with only bolt on is possible for a year now. I think it can be done, if you can get inside the ECU, and tune it right. Long debate, check rs25.com.

My understanding is that I can go with any 2.5 and run my ECU. Is this correct? If I can, and can hack it, I might care a little less about what engine I throw in.

Hey, where's your write up. I'd like to see it or review it. Can't recall if I read yours.
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Old 09-19-2003, 12:28 PM   #71
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Old 09-19-2003, 06:34 PM   #72
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I just now thought of this:

Quote:
Originally posted by supermoose
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=supermoose
Why?

My car is a SOHC now. What difference does it make in ease of install?
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Old 09-20-2003, 04:37 AM   #73
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sohc, dohc, it dosnt matter, all usdm subarus ex the ones with teh dohc 2.5 and the dohc EJ20 are SOHC. regardless the swap will happen, you'll never upgrade a DOHC motor to a SOHC one. dosnt happen.


regarding the swap, the reason a DOHC ej25 is a simpler swap is bc its closer to the year of your car. plain and simple. the sensors and other stuff is compatible, etc.

as far as bolting in etc, everything bolts in.

h
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Old 09-21-2003, 11:12 PM   #74
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I agree about ease of install. While I had to worry about crank sensor trigger differences, newer style fuel injectors( different connectors) a different temp sensor for the guage, Lack of EGR, and a way to disable the air assist injectors on the newer SOHC engine, Supermoose didnt have to change any of these. All of the connectors where the older style on the DOHC 2.5 also they have EGR if you want to retain that. The coil/plug wires dont have to be costom, the DOHC 2.5s work fine and ALL the crank triggers were the same that year. In reality if you have all the parts ahead of time, the SOHC is only a few hours more of work. But DOHC 2.5s are generally cheaper, and you wont need as many little odds and ends.

I agree with supermoose on the DOHC heads. I personally think they are a better head. They were able to change the powerband alittle with the SOHC and shift it more towards midrange power instead of high end, but the main reason they stopped making it is cost related.

Summery- DOHC were made up until 98, SOHC 99 and newer. DOHC is closer to your model year and therefore components are more alike.

Good Luck!
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Old 09-23-2003, 06:15 PM   #75
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I'm curious to hear what you decide and how it goes!

I've got a 1997 Impreza Brighton w/ a 1.8L engine, too. In a year or two I'd like to do an engine swap, too. (It's only got 67,000 miles on it so far, so it seems crazy to throw out the 1.8L just yet. )

In the mean time, I'm just going to figure out how to shoehorn a tachometer into this thing...
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