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Old 06-01-2003, 11:44 PM   #1
STEALTH-WRX
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Default where to get a aluminum radiator core. enough to cool my air to water intercooler

i need to find where i can buy extrude fin radiator cores. i am looking for sizes in the 1-2 inch thickness, 8 to 10 inches tall, and 24-32 inches wide. i am going to use it to cool my air to water intercooler. i will weld some end tanks on it to fit (4) an -12 water lines.
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Old 06-02-2003, 12:48 AM   #2
WillysPU
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Local radiator shop? They are usually willing build any type of custom setup you are willing to pay for.
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Old 06-02-2003, 02:34 AM   #3
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hey bro talk to turbonetics and see what spearco can do for you i know they are starting to make custom radiators will have one soon for the wrx just give them the specs and they will make you up one with the 12 an pieces for ya , what ya should do is have the line running from your pump to the radiator then to a water box then to the ic that way on track days you can fill the waterbox up with ice so it will be much cooler just get like a 3 gallon fuel cell for it will work great along with the radiator
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Old 06-02-2003, 03:42 AM   #4
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www.2kracing.com might be able to help you out...i know they know a good radiator place too...
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Old 06-02-2003, 04:55 AM   #5
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MRT do a rad for the legacy chargecooler system. Might need some adaption to fit a WRX though, but they sell for about $300 I think.

I'm getting something made, about 40mm thick, 660mm wide, 260mm tall. Power requirements will be nearly the same as yours with 2.5 and GT30 turbo.

What areyou doing at the engine side, I'm getting something made for that too, although the legacy unit will do to start with while I get the enigne run in.

Paul
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Old 06-02-2003, 11:29 AM   #6
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i am running a 2 gallon tank where my battery and washer fluid bottle is right now. that will be my main resovour. then from that it will goto my heat exchanger to a 15 gallon per minute water pump. after the pump it will go into the air/liquid i/c then out the i/c into the resovour again.
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Old 06-02-2003, 12:12 PM   #7
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i didnt think gt30 turbos could make 500-600 all wheel hp
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Old 06-03-2003, 04:28 AM   #8
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That's a big resevoir, is it really necessary? Or are you going to use it for ice? If you get your main radiator sorted, you don't need anything like that amount of water.

GT30s go up to 600 crank hp, I think Al made 425whp on his, but on a 2.0 with lower boost. But if that's not enough, you can get hybrid of sorts with gt42 cover which is enough for 700 crank hp.

I'm still very sceptical as to how the number from US rolling road dynos stack up against those used elsewhere, some numbers are a little optimistic to say the least.

Paul
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Old 06-03-2003, 05:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
i am running a 2 gallon tank where my battery and washer fluid bottle is right now. that will be my main resovour. then from that it will goto my heat exchanger to a 15 gallon per minute water pump. after the pump it will go into the air/liquid i/c then out the i/c into the resovour again.
Man, you're doing the exact same setup I've been waiting to do! That's awesome. Tell me....... where did you acquire the Legacy Turbo to IC induction hose w/ BOV Flange? Or did you have one specially built? I'm having a nightmarish time trying to acquire the legacy specific piece. I already have the Legacy core, and pump...... all I'm waiting on is the money to fabricate the radiator, buy the reservoir and set it all up.

Blue
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Old 06-03-2003, 09:38 AM   #10
Baldturbofreak
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Here is something you might want to look into later, I have found a system online (Do A google search a/c + intercooler+grand natrional) where they put an additional air conditioning core in the trunk inside a chiller tank. They cool the water by running the a/c in between boost runs. You will have 20 degree coolant on demand and it only takes a minute or so to recharge it. I tech savy guy could build his own using junkyard parts. One only needs to teee into the evaporator and suction lines at the firewall and run them back to the trunk. The w turns off the a/c compressor under full throttle so there isn't any parasidic loss.
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:07 AM   #11
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If you are using the legacy chargecooler part, you don't really need a resevoir. It has a fair amount of coolant in the end tanks, and a proper pressurised rad cap.

With an efficient radiator, a large volume of coolant is just more weight to lug around, unless you want to fill the resevoir with ice for drag racing.

For high power applications I don't think the legacy part has the cooling capacity though. i already have one on my car (I have the legacy they came on) and am planning to get a custom part with over 3 times the core volume.


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Old 06-03-2003, 11:25 AM   #12
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i am definately not using a stock legacy air/liquid intercooler. mine is a spearco unit. the resovour is for ice when i goto the strip. i still have not found a heat exchanger but i am going to a few shops today to find out. my intercooler core is about 5 times the volume as the legacy unit, as it will stick up into my hood scoop 2 inches. my core alone with no endtanks has 960 cubic inches of volume which is more than enough for my needs and is larger than my front mount.

as far as the air conditioning cooling the water; i have see it and it looks cool. however i am running my own design. i am putting a series of coils in the water and running nitrous through it. that should have the same affect. once it runs through the coils in the resovour it will exit onto the heat exchanger for further cooling.

Please understand i know exactly what i am doing.
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:42 AM   #13
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My core works out at around 650 ci. I don't have a large hood scoop, and the aircon drier is right in the way, oh and I'm right hand drive so I have the clutch master cylinder to deal with too.

The spearco core, does it run the charge air around fins cooled by the water, or is it like an intercooler with a water jacket (ie charge air running though large tubes).

It would be nice to use the spearco unit as it's easy, but I can't see a way to fit such a large lump in place and have room to run tubing from turbo and manifold.

WRT to the nitrous being run through the coolant, where abouts are you evapourating the nitrous? If you were to run liquid N20 though the coils and evap onto the heat exchanger, you will only get cooling on the heat exchanger and not in the coils.

I am glad you know exactly what you are doing, but not everyone reading this thread does. I don't think you want people to go away and try and run 600hp through a pint sized charge cooler do you.

Paul
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:57 AM   #14
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the spearco is a bar plate design intercooler. it is identical to a regular intercooler where as instead of air passing throw the fins, water does. it is encapsulated on both sides so water can flow through. as far is the nitrous oxide goes; it is in a gas form when it goes through the coils. very very cold, and it becomes more of a liquid when it hits the heat exchanger do to warming through my coils.
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:11 PM   #15
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For best results you want to evapourate the nitrous as it enters the coils. This is similar to what I did to make a refrigerated PC CPU cooler (same principle as normal refrigerator or even aircon). The normal method is to use a long capillary tube about 0.8mm ID to create a controlled resistance (valves are also available).

Once evapourated and cold, it will remain as a gas until it's repressurised, it will not condense prior to the heat exchanger.

You can buy capillary tube and valves from Aircon/refirgeration supply outlets.

If the nitrous is only doing this cooling operation, you may get as good results using something much cheaper like C02 gas. Would be worth investigating. You want something with high latent heat of evapouration, as this is what creates the cooling effect.

Paul
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:26 PM   #16
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the nitrous is teed to a 50-150 shot.
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:55 PM   #17
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So you have the nitrous there anyway, might as well use it.

The nitrous jets, I take it they are rated in mass flow yes? If they are, you should be able to calculate the cooling available to chill the coolant based on fully evapourating a certain amount of nitrous. I'll find out what the latent heat is, and try and get some ball part figures.

Paul
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Old 06-04-2003, 05:54 PM   #18
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Anyone other than these two understanding anything they are saying?

Hehe..... I'm getting some of it....... but the rest

Blue
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:00 PM   #19
STEALTH-WRX
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tell me what you dont understand and i will do my best to explain it. its always good to learn new things.
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
tell me what you dont understand and i will do my best to explain it. its always good to learn new things.
Nah, I'm just messing around.

I'm pretty good at understanding these concepts...... however, I don't understand how you're adding custom coils to an already built Spearco Air/Water unit......... Oh, and I'm not up on the NO2 knowledge and it's latent heat evap. and all that mess.......

I like the idea........ and really want to see the finished product....... I'll be doing your setup's baby brother by myself once I can source the right parts and such...

Blue
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:32 PM   #21
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the custom coils are actually going inside of a water tank. it will be like an air conditioning for the water.
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:43 PM   #22
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Right, latent heat of vapourisation of N20 is 376.1 Kj/kg.

SO by evapourating 1kg of N20 we suck 376.1 Kj out of the surroundings.

Specific heat of water is 4186 J/kg K.

If you assume 10 litres of water (just over 2 gallons) that's 10kg.

41 Kj/K

So evaping 1 kg of nitrous will potentially lower the temp of the water by:

376/41 = 9.7 degree celcius.

Not very much. However, I think that's a serious amount of water to have, if you had a 2litre resevoir you would have 5 times the temp drop, so more like 45.85 degree drop. Of course this would freeze the water, so not much good.

If you were to use a 1 gallon tank, plus some in the system to give 5 litres that would be a 20'C drop in coolant temp assuming 100% efficiency, so guessing you could get a 15'C drop realistically.

If the Air/water system was 80% efficient overall, (conservative) then you could look to use 1kg of nitrous prior to a run to drop the inlet temps 12'C below what would be possible with a normal air/air or unchilled air/water intercooler.

That's pretty useful, could actually mean charge air temps below ambient.

Hope this has been useful, can add more info if required.

Paul
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Old 06-05-2003, 06:34 AM   #23
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How about telling me those numbers in British Thermal Units....... I may better understand the whole specific heat of water.

Blue
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:31 AM   #24
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Lol, those damned metric units.

Why didn't you lot get rid of British units when you got rid of the British! A wasted opertunity!

I will dig out some imperial units later.

But basically, the latent heat is expressed as:

Joules energy per kg of N20 evapourated

The latent heat of water is:

Joules energy to change the temp of 1kg of water 1 Kelvin.

So it takes 4186 Joules to raise or lower the temp 1 degree, per kilo of water.

1 Kelvin = 1 Celcius
1 Litre of water is 1kg

Imperial Gallon? Hmm, I was using British gallons and not US, and assumed 4.5l per gallon.

Paul
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Old 06-07-2003, 09:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pavlo
Lol, those damned metric units.

Why didn't you lot get rid of British units when you got rid of the British! A wasted opertunity!

I will dig out some imperial units later.

But basically, the latent heat is expressed as:

Joules energy per kg of N20 evapourated

The latent heat of water is:

Joules energy to change the temp of 1kg of water 1 Kelvin.

So it takes 4186 Joules to raise or lower the temp 1 degree, per kilo of water.

1 Kelvin = 1 Celcius
1 Litre of water is 1kg

Imperial Gallon? Hmm, I was using British gallons and not US, and assumed 4.5l per gallon.

Paul
Thank you very much. I see the light now. I'm in the Fire Academy at the moment, and everything related to heat is expressed in British Thermal Units....... not used to much else. Thank you for taking the time to explain that.

Blue
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