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Old 06-03-2003, 01:40 AM   #1
JT-KGY
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Default For those that are discouraged by dealers asking over MSRP...

http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000141977.cfm
Look at this... new Mercedes Benz are going for $2000 UNDER
INVOICE.. yes, not under MSRP.. UNDER INVOICE!!..
Car market is so bad right now that I think paying over or even
at MSRP is just insane...


So.. if buyers just hold out for a months or two... I'm pretty sure
the dealers will beg us to buy the STi later...
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:16 AM   #2
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Another reason not to pay more than MSRP - dealers will not get another allocation if they cannot sell *all* the STIs they have already received...so if everyone avoids the ones that are charging a markup, I'm sure MSRP or below MSRP will become more common...
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by cyberdeep
Another reason not to pay more than MSRP - dealers will not get another allocation if they cannot sell *all* the STIs they have already received...so if everyone avoids the ones that are charging a markup, I'm sure MSRP or below MSRP will become more common...
Yup.. i've heard the same..

Make them beg us to buy... make car buying experience a
pleasant one....
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:23 AM   #4
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I think this makes the problem worse, not better.

Subaru dealerships having been selling cars for a long time now with very low margins. Now that they have a 'hot' car they feel they can make money on, they want to jack the price up as much as the 'market will bear'.

I think this really hurts the dealerships that are being good to people right now. The 'good' dealerships aren't going to get extra cars to sell at good prices in the short term. In the long term the prices are going to go down as the number of eager/affluent buyers (read: suckers). So, good dealerships are going to miss out on some profit.

If good dealerships are going to be rewarded, they're going to have to be rewarded by repeat and referral business from loyal customers.
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by reks
I think this makes the problem worse, not better.

Subaru dealerships having been selling cars for a long time now with very low margins. Now that they have a 'hot' car they feel they can make money on, they want to jack the price up as much as the 'market will bear'.

I think this really hurts the dealerships that are being good to people right now. The 'good' dealerships aren't going to get extra cars to sell at good prices in the short term. In the long term the prices are going to go down as the number of eager/affluent buyers (read: suckers). So, good dealerships are going to miss out on some profit.

If good dealerships are going to be rewarded, they're going to have to be rewarded by repeat and referral business from loyal customers.
If dealerships are counting on 1 hot car every 4-7 years so they can make a few more thousands for the 20 car a year they are going to get, they have MUCH larger issues.

Dealerships don't make much from cars, they make money from services and parts. Instead of worrying about how much they can jack up the car, they should worry about how to improve the competency of their mechanics. I am the only person that's worked on my cars in the past 5 years. If there were mechanics at a dealership that were worth a damn, I would let them fix my car. But we've all heard the horror stories....
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
If dealerships are counting on 1 hot car every 4-7 years so they can make a few more thousands for the 20 car a year they are going to get, they have MUCH larger issues.
retailers do not grow money on trees to make it by. they struggle with the changing market to survive. it is very clear that companys (throughout the industry) did not make decent profits in the past several years after the stock market crash, despite the record car sales (0% apr will do that).

the ones that are crying over the prices (especially the ones that refuse to pay a penny above invoice, lol) of the sti or wrx are the ones that do not contribute to the well being of subaru, and it's subsidiaries. if everyone was like this, subaru would die and there would not be a next year sti model.

to look for an sti at a "good" price is fine. but to sit there and bitch and moan all the time about the unfair market and "oh the rich kid got it and thats unfair, waaa" is childish.

what is happening now with a low production car, like the sti, has happened in the past with the ZR-1 during it's introductory year. it's nothing new.

i think the crying needs to seriously stop. the sti has entered the market with a huge bang. maybe we should all look at this and be proud for a change.
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:37 PM   #7
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reks:
The 'good' dealership should have no problem selling the
STis if they are simply asking MSRP at this point.... and the more
they sell the more STi they shall receive... I do not see how they
will miss profits

shingles:
I agree. From what I understand, dealership makes most of
their money from service not selling cars.

SpeedShift:
Please keep in mind that even at invoice prices... dealer still
makes money off customers.
I hope no one is childish here given that you could comfortably
afford a $30+k car...
Personally, I think any purchase would help the well being of
Subaru.... however, paying ANYTHING OVER INVOICE doesn't
really help Subaru... it does help the dealerships but not Subaru,
the car maker.
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:47 PM   #8
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Speed: wow, if i open a dealership I will invite you to buy my cars. As a consumer I have every right to "cry" about the price I pay for a product. Subaru already made their money when they sold to the dealerships. Dealerships are ALL PRIVATELY OWNED. So the extra $5K over MSRP someone pays does not go to subaru. NOT ONE PENNY OF IT.

Don't worry about it, if one dealership goes out of business, another one will be there. If no one is willing to pay MSRP, then the dealerships will stop demanding it. It's that simple really. It's my money and I will find the dealership that wants my money on my terms. And guess what, I am not dying to have an STi. If no one will sell at MSRP, then I'll buy something else.

What Subaru the car maker needs if volume. And if all their dealers are acting like crooks, no one will buy Subaru cars because of the bad experience. Word of mouth is a VERY powerful marketing tool.
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by shingles
Speed: wow, if i open a dealership I will invite you to buy my cars. As a consumer I have every right to "cry" about the price I pay for a product. Subaru already made their money when they sold to the dealerships. Dealerships are ALL PRIVATELY OWNED. So the extra $5K over MSRP someone pays does not go to subaru. NOT ONE PENNY OF IT.

Don't worry about it, if one dealership goes out of business, another one will be there. If no one is willing to pay MSRP, then the dealerships will stop demanding it. It's that simple really. It's my money and I will find the dealership that wants my money on my terms. And guess what, I am not dying to have an STi. If no one will sell at MSRP, then I'll buy something else.

Yes.
Actually... dealer asking for than MSRP will most likely hurt Subaru
more than help since they won't be able to sell the cars as quickly
(this probably doesn't apply to STi in the first few months)
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Old 06-03-2003, 03:08 PM   #10
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If I am a good dealer selling the STi for MSRP or less I am doing a service to customers but I'm not reaping the benefit of the introductory MSRP raping people are complaining about.

If I am a naughty dealer selling my STi for more than MSRP I'm making a couple extra bucks at the expense of some good will.

By the time more STis arrive so that the good dealer will get a chance to sell more units than the bad dealer and make more money by doing more volume, the 'bad' dealer will lower his price negating the 'good' dealer's advantage. End result is that the 'good' dealer has simply missed out on making extra money on the first few allocations.

My point was that the bad economy and historically low margins enhance the problem encouraging even more dealers to be 'naughty'.

Furthermore, I'm jumping on the atta-boy bandwagon for people who are willing to wait for prices to come down and even more for people who are willing to wait to buy cars from dealers who were 'good' during the introduction.
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Old 06-03-2003, 03:22 PM   #11
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The one thing that does happen however is that people will say "oh don't go there, because they are charge WAY over MSRP". For example I read of a dealership in town that wants $41K for a blue one on their lot. now I would never go there ever. Think about it - if they try to jack you on the price of the car, you don't think they won't try to jack you later on if you need to go back for service or parts?
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Old 06-03-2003, 09:22 PM   #12
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Capitalism. Supply and Demand. How is this confusing?
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Old 06-03-2003, 10:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by hatchy
Capitalism. Supply and Demand. How is this confusing?
Yep. It makes sense for a dealer to put one of these on the floor over sticker. Generates traffic. Makes a few people mad. But its like the godfather sad.. it's only business.. Some people will pay over, most will pay MSRP or less.. You need patience.. There was a white one at Ed Voyles at 5k over. I bet, but I'll never know that if I had been serious, I could have gotten it down to MSRP. But I want to wait and see if there are problems with this car.

It has a new motor, new trans, and a new ECU. I'm gonna let someone else donate their blood to the bleeding edge.

I've said this before. When BMW came out with the newest M3, it had engine problems where people were blowing the engine due to some problem with bearing clearance. Took BMW USA several months to recognize and address the problem. For some purchasers of this 50k+ car it was an agonizing several months (denied warrant due to abuse claims so I heard).

Have patience.............

Put your money in the stock market in the meantime. Its going up..
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by reks
I think this makes the problem worse, not better.

Subaru dealerships having been selling cars for a long time now with very low margins. Now that they have a 'hot' car they feel they can make money on, they want to jack the price up as much as the 'market will bear'.

I think this really hurts the dealerships that are being good to people right now. The 'good' dealerships aren't going to get extra cars to sell at good prices in the short term. In the long term the prices are going to go down as the number of eager/affluent buyers (read: suckers). So, good dealerships are going to miss out on some profit.

If good dealerships are going to be rewarded, they're going to have to be rewarded by repeat and referral business from loyal customers.
Having worked in the industry for a large family owned dealer network from the back office and front as well as SOA for a total of 8 years I'm cool with dealers making a profit. They are businesses and they are in business to make profit, it's the American way. In fact I'd prefer they make a profit than dry up and limit my local automitve selection to GM, Ford and DaimlerCry-sler offerings.

But what I'm not for is the lying, cheating, raping, double deals, reverse deals, and all manner of underhanded methods they use to "do business". But then again, its the American way.

Sadly there are so few good dealer principals, general managers, sales managers, sales staff, service managers and service writers in the industry (I left the parts dept. & techs out on purpose as they generally get the shaft as much as we customers do) that its easier to find a hooker who'll take coupons than it is to find a dealer that trades above board and treats its customers like well 'customers', and not marks (aka 'suckers').

Finding a good dealer that you can form a long and lasting relationship is about as hard as finding a good general contractor, attorney, insurance agent or financial advisor.
There is a reason why these industries are considered to be rife with low lifes, criminials and hucksters. Its because they are.

When it comes to purchasing a vehicle of any vintage, cost, or marque always remember these ancient but sage words; 'Caveat Emptor' (Buyer Beware).

- Janq


"A fool and his money will soon be parted" - P.T. Barnum
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:22 AM   #15
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There's nothing wrong with dealer charging over MSRP....
after all this is a captalist country...

But there's also nothing wrong for customers to be patient...
shop around where to spend his money...
(which is the purpose of the original post....)
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:31 PM   #16
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Being patient with this car is hard! I went to the dealer today and almost broke out the check book. But i think for most people it will be a good idea to wait it out. The two major considerations are the build quality and the price. I'm more concerned with the second one as i've never paid anything close to msrp. I like good deals and work hard at finding them.
All things considered the sti is a good deal given it's performance but i'll wait for the price to become more negoiatable.
Brent
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:31 PM   #17
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Being patient with this car is hard! I went to the dealer today and almost broke out the check book. But i think for most people it will be a good idea to wait it out. The two major considerations are the build quality and the price. I'm more concerned with the second one as i've never paid anything close to msrp. I like good deals and work hard at finding them.
All things considered the sti is a good deal given it's performance but i'll wait for the price to become more negoiatable.
Brent
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Old 06-05-2003, 09:13 AM   #18
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do you find these mark ups from single point dealerships
or a dealer with several manufactures in the building?
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Old 06-05-2003, 10:56 AM   #19
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Default Patience

Patience young drivers. If the dealerships bring their prices down to MSRP or a little below, they make a profit. Even if they bring them down to Invoice, they make a profit (albeit a very little one, and only if they sell the car quickly).


Case Study: The Evo. How many dealerships are still charging over MSRP? The three I have seen are now somewhere between Invoice and MSRP. They couldn't move them at the markups they had. And now that the cars have been sitting there for almost 3 months, the holdback money to keep them there is gone.


I *know* I will own my STi. I also *know* that I will have to wait until next October or November.
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:59 PM   #20
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i said it before and i will say it again.

you wanna enjoy this summer? PAY UP!

otherwise quit crying. no one hears you (at least not the dealers)
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Old 06-05-2003, 08:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
i said it before and i will say it again.

you wanna enjoy this summer? PAY UP!

otherwise quit crying. no one hears you (at least not the dealers)
No one is crying.... well, unless i just paid $5k for ABSOLUTELY
nothing...
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Old 06-05-2003, 08:51 PM   #22
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Basically, it comes down to this...all the people who are in the "I need it NOW and dont care for what kind of price" mode are the few customers that dealers expect to reap the benefits of marking up the STi. Stated over and over again, and rightly so, it IS a matter of supply and demand. Face it, the STi is one hot commodity for dealers to have because the demand has skyrocketed. As a result, it would only make sense, as a dealer, to tack on a mark up because there will be those customers who want the hottest thing out RIGHT NOW, that being the STi. Now as far as the bitching and whining about mark ups....bitch on and whine on! As customers, we can do WHATEVER we want with our own money! Who says that we have to ACCEPT everything that the dealer presents us like mark ups?! We don't! I mean, come on, when we go to buy a car, are we really THAT concerned with the financial future of the car manufacturer as a whole company to be foolish to pay OVER msrp just to help benefit "the market?" In most cases, no. We usually just try to strike a deal that is most beneficial for, no one else, but ourselves as customers. That being said, I think its only a matter of time before we start seeing a noticeable price drop for the STi's. Its your money, you can spend it however you wish. Just make sure that an STi sits in your garage in the end!

just my $.02
-STiLL
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Old 06-05-2003, 10:45 PM   #23
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There should not be any member of this site that pays more than MSRP for any STi. I found a STi, below, near MSRP by using Scoobies inventory checker today. Granted I was "lucky" as the second call I placed located a dealer with the right body/wheel color and acceptable option combo! Not only was I surprised, but happy that I could do the deal!

Needless to say there were other dealers that showed STi's in inventory, I did not call all of them once I found my new "baby". But they(Sti's) are out there waiting for new homes.

I plan on going to the other store, who has used my "deposit" for the past 4 months and get a refund. BTW, the deposit dealer never has called me to say "Boo"! When I've stopped in for an update, he has been vague. Thanks to NASIOC I have been on top of the action. So thanks to all of you, I'll be one happy new Scoobie owner this time next week! I can stop looking at these threads and concentrate on the "Sti mods" threads.

"Livin' the dream"

BlueSTI4me[/color]
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Old 06-05-2003, 10:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSTI4Me
There should not be any member of this site that pays more than MSRP for any STi. I found a STi, below, near MSRP by using Scoobies inventory checker today. Granted I was "lucky" as the second call I placed located a dealer with the right body/wheel color and acceptable option combo! Not only was I surprised, but happy that I could do the deal!

Needless to say there were other dealers that showed STi's in inventory, I did not call all of them once I found my new "baby". But they(Sti's) are out there waiting for new homes.

I plan on going to the other store, who has used my "deposit" for the past 4 months and get a refund. BTW, the deposit dealer never has called me to say "Boo"! When I've stopped in for an update, he has been vague. Thanks to NASIOC I have been on top of the action. So thanks to all of you, I'll be one happy new Scoobie owner this time next week! I can stop looking at these threads and concentrate on the "Sti mods" threads.

"Livin' the dream"

BlueSTI4me[/color]
Damn, I love to hear stories of an educated consumer gettin' over and flyin' high!

Good show old chap.
Congratulations and be sure to post pics...even though we've seen every angle of the thing already.
Lets hope others follow your example and 'do the right thing'.

I myself passed last weekend on an opportunity to pick up the color combo I wanted with my local dealer at MSRP. He's been hangin on to my $500 deposit since February and was/is a hedge bet that my primary deal falls through.
Why, because I have a better deal going at less than MSRP with an out of state dealer...and all I have to do is be patient and await their shipment at the end of June.

I won't lie, I almost waivered...but I got a grip, called my accountant and then called my good firend Tom who both slapped me over the phone and told me to stick with my plan.

Basically don't pay more when you can get it for less!

- Janq
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