Photo Radar Ticket

pdxscoob · 06-03-2003, 10:37 PM

So I am going down West Burnside about a week ago going towards the eastside and I stop at the light at 3rd Ave and look up and see the speed limit on the Burnside Bridge says 35mph. So light turns green, I go thru the light at 2nd and I am now on the bridge, look at my speedo, 38 mph. All of a sudden I am flashed by a van. Thought nothing of it because I was doing 38 in a 35. Well today I got a citation in the mail saying I was doing 38 in a 25. Well at least my speedo is right

. The van was parked like 50 feet in front of the 35 mph sign. Can I fight this? Any help would be appreciated.

Franz

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mattjb · 06-03-2003, 10:47 PM

That's pretty lame.

Does it have any other information on the ticket? Location, or anything like that? I'd go back there and take a picture of the speed limit sign and where the van was. That'd should help you out.

I'd definately fight it if the speed limit was acutally 35, which I'm sure it was.

Good luck.

-MB

RockBlocker · 06-03-2003, 11:00 PM

That sucks. I know the are you are talking about. I didnt know they did that down there. I would say that you were looking ahead like you are suppose to and saw the posted speed was 35 m.p.h. Maybe somehting like when is the speed limit in effect at a certain line or when it is in sight of you. I have always thought that it was when you see the sign then that is the current speed.

Hope you get out of it

XT6Wagon · 06-03-2003, 11:29 PM

You should measure out the exact distance and look up ALL the laws pertaining to this.

For instance in some states its illegal to give a speeding ticket within X feet of a speed limit sign. So if you could hit 200mph and get back to the speedlimit within that "window". The cop can't do anything.

Also the ticket is likely unconstitutional given your right to face your accusers. So you could likely get off unless a hell of alot of people come into the court to say that the thing was working right etc.

kturner · 06-03-2003, 11:58 PM

What's the fine for no front license plate? Probably not a moving violation insurance busting infraction. One thing to try is to call the City transportation staff and confirm the basis for the posting. There are strict rules about posting speed limits that the signs don't always obey. I think "the man" is on a revenue raising binge. But, I am paranoid that way.

wingtipz · 06-04-2003, 11:31 AM

Franz, sorry to hear that man, and of course you should fight it! How is your record otherwise? Do all the things mentioned above, and if need be just explain what a fine, upstanding citizen you are and they're bound to let you off.

Gabe

pdxscoob · 06-04-2003, 12:38 PM

So you want me to lie in court Gabe

. I got a ticket just before new years out on highway 26 towards the coast, i did the defensive driving school thing so would not go on my record. but i think you have to be ticket free for 12 months for that not to come back and haunt you. last ticket before that was over 10 years ago. its the car, its gotta be the car. court date is not until july 17th so i have time to do some research. i have not been able to find out where you are actually supposed to change speeds going from one speed zone to the next. is it line of sight of the sign, or once you break the plane of where the sign is?

thanks for all your help. down with the man

Franz

jlee27 · 06-04-2003, 01:17 PM

Always fight a Ticket no matter what, you can always plea for driving school anytime during court so that there are no points against your license...wether or not the judge accepts is up to him..

-jlee

bohica · 06-04-2003, 02:04 PM

Fight it, investigate everything, do you remember the stunt that the city of Beverton pulled back in the mid 90's?

They put their photo radar on a road that the centerline was the dividing line between city and county jurisdiction, one side of the street was city and the other was county. Yet they sent out tickets for both sides of the street.

And the speed limit was 35 mph but they sent out tickets for any thing over 25 mph. untill they got caught and had to pay people back.

wingtipz · 06-04-2003, 03:30 PM

Franz, let me see what I can come up with as far as some of that info goes. My mom works in the justice court for Lane County and has all sorts of access to that info, or at least people she can ask. Maybe you can get it transferred down there and it could go away

She wouldn't do it for me, so probably no-go for you. I'll get back to you soon.

And, yeah, I'm sure it's the car

Gabe

david2z4 · 06-04-2003, 03:40 PM

speed limit signs apply to from the point of the sign forward, not from the piont you can see the sign.

I got nailed for the same thing. I turned out onto a road and 2 blocks down there was a 45mph sign. The other direction were I was at was 45 but where I turned out that direction was still 35. I was doing 40 so I got a ticket. Took it to court and the judge said "drive at a speed you can afford"

This is real tricky when one way it is 35 and the other direction on the same place on the same road is 45. Tricky bastards.

Never been on that road before, how could I know what the speed was when I just turned onto it.

pdxscoob · 06-04-2003, 04:28 PM

thanks david, the messed up thing is that going the other way it is not posted 25 until you actually cross 2nd ave and are in the middle of downtown.

thanks gabe for doing some leg work for me as well.

i looked through a drivers ed manual and it says nothing about when on the road the speed limit starts.

Franz

Dr Ken · 06-04-2003, 06:32 PM

I notice most of Burnside is 25 and a favored spot for the fuzz to cruise. Is that a new traffic-light-camera on Burnside by Powell's? It's a bastard... if you're not stopped during amber, it'll snap you (me) exactly at red.

-Ken

David Glasscock · 06-05-2003, 12:33 AM

i would go in and say that it wasnt you driving.. cop didnt pull you over, you didnt sign anything so how do they know it was you driving it.. tell them to prove to you that you were behind the wheel..

p.s. i know here in lakewood when you get this kind of ticket it doesnt go on your record.. it's a way for the city to get revenue. i know a few people who have had this happen some have paid and some have fought it. the person who fought it told the court he wasnt driving the car and to prove he was, not in that exact words, but he didnt have to pay.. again this is just a way for the city to get money coming in.. shouldnt go on your record..

jlee27 · 06-05-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Glasscock
i would go in and say that it wasnt you driving.. cop didnt pull you over, you didnt sign anything so how do they know it was you driving it.. tell them to prove to you that you were behind the wheel..

p.s. i know here in lakewood when you get this kind of ticket it doesnt go on your record.. it's a way for the city to get revenue. i know a few people who have had this happen some have paid and some have fought it. the person who fought it told the court he wasnt driving the car and to prove he was, not in that exact words, but he didnt have to pay.. again this is just a way for the city to get money coming in.. shouldnt go on your record..

In Portland, when the citation comes in the mail, it also comes with a letter and a photo copy of the picture of the driver...when the photo radar goes off, it snaps the front and back of the vehicle and NEEDS to have a clear picture of the driver and license plate or they will not send the citation out...They also keep a larger colored picture of the driver at the court house so you can go look and see if you can say it wasn't you...

I've also been told that since there wasn't a cop to write and hand you ticket and the citation is mailed out with no confirmation, just throw away the citation...They can't convict you if you didn't receive the citation right? The worst they can do is send you antoher copy...

-jlee

Kucheto · 06-06-2003, 11:10 AM

David Glasscock is right. I've gotten away from 2 photo radar tickets. That was almost 2 years ago. I don't remember getting a picture of the car with me in it, but maybe now they do that.
Anywayz, I got a twin brother, so I told them he was driving both times! Never paid for nothin'

If the pic you got is not that clear and looks like somebody you know, all you have to do is send them a copy of that person's drivers' licence or maybe even just put his name down.

Good Luck!

serious · 06-06-2003, 11:11 AM

Well you could tell them you're dislexic and thought the speed limit was 52! Or you could just put a cover over your plate to make it harder to see. Or you could just pay the ticket, but where's the fun it that?

B

cky211 · 11-23-2003, 07:21 PM

ttt

drifterx · 11-23-2003, 11:51 PM

if you have anyone elese on your insurance you can fight it and say you may have not been driving the car at the time. by you have someone elese on you insurance this will help you in court because there is a possibility that someone elese was/ couldve been driving your car at the time. at least when this type of thing happended to me. good luck

cky211 · 11-24-2003, 01:16 AM

How can a ticket stand up in court with no officer to back it up?

-Scott A.

pdxscoob · 11-24-2003, 01:19 PM

I am not sure why this was ressurrected, but I went down to the courthouse and the court clerk told me my options were if I pleaded guilty or no contest than she would cut the ticket in half so about $50 or I could plead not guilty and have to set up a hearing to go in front of the judge in a month or two. The photo radar thing is just a scam for the city to make money. I just read that they are now going to give the cops quotas to meet, where they have to hand out 10 tickets or written warnings every month. If we had a sales tax or if the idiot voters would pass measures like measure 28, we would not have these problems.

climbs off soap box and goes back to bed.

franz

CosmoTheCat · 11-24-2003, 01:26 PM

There's no need for the government to take 1/2 of our income. What the government needs to do is cut the fat, not increase taxes. Washington has a sales tax and they're talking about adding a state income tax. Great.

Once they start a tax it's very difficult to get them to give it up - they'll waste the money to show they HAVE to keep it before they willingly give it up.

06-03-2003, 10:37 PM	#1
pdxscoob Scooby Newbie Member#: 28732 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: '03 WRX Wagon Silver	Photo Radar Ticket So I am going down West Burnside about a week ago going towards the eastside and I stop at the light at 3rd Ave and look up and see the speed limit on the Burnside Bridge says 35mph. So light turns green, I go thru the light at 2nd and I am now on the bridge, look at my speedo, 38 mph. All of a sudden I am flashed by a van. Thought nothing of it because I was doing 38 in a 35. Well today I got a citation in the mail saying I was doing 38 in a 25. Well at least my speedo is right . The van was parked like 50 feet in front of the 35 mph sign. Can I fight this? Any help would be appreciated. Franz * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

06-04-2003, 01:17 PM	#8
jlee27 Scooby Newbie Member#: 10244 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: 2002 2002 Bugeye WRB	Photo Radar SUCKS! Always fight a Ticket no matter what, you can always plea for driving school anytime during court so that there are no points against your license...wether or not the judge accepts is up to him.. -jlee

06-05-2003, 12:33 AM	#14
David Glasscock Scooby Specialist Member#: 25033 Join Date: Sep 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: lakewood wa Vehicle: 06 sti my $$ pit 05 xt my DD	i would go in and say that it wasnt you driving.. cop didnt pull you over, you didnt sign anything so how do they know it was you driving it.. tell them to prove to you that you were behind the wheel.. p.s. i know here in lakewood when you get this kind of ticket it doesnt go on your record.. it's a way for the city to get revenue. i know a few people who have had this happen some have paid and some have fought it. the person who fought it told the court he wasnt driving the car and to prove he was, not in that exact words, but he didnt have to pay.. again this is just a way for the city to get money coming in.. shouldnt go on your record.. Last edited by David Glasscock; 06-05-2003 at 12:53 AM.

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06-03-2003, 10:47 PM	#2
mattjb Scooby Newbie Member#: 10762 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sammamish,WA Vehicle: 1992 Mazda Miata 2005 WRX Crystal Grey	That's pretty lame. Does it have any other information on the ticket? Location, or anything like that? I'd go back there and take a picture of the speed limit sign and where the van was. That'd should help you out. I'd definately fight it if the speed limit was acutally 35, which I'm sure it was. Good luck. -MB

06-03-2003, 11:00 PM	#3
RockBlocker Vendor Member#: 36230 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Internet USA Vehicle: 2002 Sedan Silver/Black	That sucks. I know the are you are talking about. I didnt know they did that down there. I would say that you were looking ahead like you are suppose to and saw the posted speed was 35 m.p.h. Maybe somehting like when is the speed limit in effect at a certain line or when it is in sight of you. I have always thought that it was when you see the sign then that is the current speed. Hope you get out of it

06-03-2003, 11:29 PM	#4
XT6Wagon Scooby Specialist Member#: 524 Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: WA Vehicle: 04 STi White	You should measure out the exact distance and look up ALL the laws pertaining to this. For instance in some states its illegal to give a speeding ticket within X feet of a speed limit sign. So if you could hit 200mph and get back to the speedlimit within that "window". The cop can't do anything. Also the ticket is likely unconstitutional given your right to face your accusers. So you could likely get off unless a hell of alot of people come into the court to say that the thing was working right etc.

06-03-2003, 11:58 PM	#5
kturner Scooby Newbie Member#: 8225 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Corvallis, OR	What's the fine for no front license plate? Probably not a moving violation insurance busting infraction. One thing to try is to call the City transportation staff and confirm the basis for the posting. There are strict rules about posting speed limits that the signs don't always obey. I think "the man" is on a revenue raising binge. But, I am paranoid that way.

06-04-2003, 11:31 AM	#6
wingtipz Scooby Newbie Member#: 26697 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: 1999 2.5RS/2006 OBXT AW/ABP	Franz, sorry to hear that man, and of course you should fight it! How is your record otherwise? Do all the things mentioned above, and if need be just explain what a fine, upstanding citizen you are and they're bound to let you off. Gabe

06-04-2003, 12:38 PM	#7
pdxscoob Scooby Newbie Member#: 28732 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: '03 WRX Wagon Silver	So you want me to lie in court Gabe . I got a ticket just before new years out on highway 26 towards the coast, i did the defensive driving school thing so would not go on my record. but i think you have to be ticket free for 12 months for that not to come back and haunt you. last ticket before that was over 10 years ago. its the car, its gotta be the car. court date is not until july 17th so i have time to do some research. i have not been able to find out where you are actually supposed to change speeds going from one speed zone to the next. is it line of sight of the sign, or once you break the plane of where the sign is? thanks for all your help. down with the man Franz

06-04-2003, 02:04 PM	#9
bohica Scooby Newbie Member#: 8590 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: seattle Vehicle: oh 5 sti & a	Fight it, investigate everything, do you remember the stunt that the city of Beverton pulled back in the mid 90's? They put their photo radar on a road that the centerline was the dividing line between city and county jurisdiction, one side of the street was city and the other was county. Yet they sent out tickets for both sides of the street. And the speed limit was 35 mph but they sent out tickets for any thing over 25 mph. untill they got caught and had to pay people back.

06-04-2003, 03:30 PM	#10
wingtipz Scooby Newbie Member#: 26697 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: 1999 2.5RS/2006 OBXT AW/ABP	Franz, let me see what I can come up with as far as some of that info goes. My mom works in the justice court for Lane County and has all sorts of access to that info, or at least people she can ask. Maybe you can get it transferred down there and it could go away She wouldn't do it for me, so probably no-go for you. I'll get back to you soon. And, yeah, I'm sure it's the car Gabe

06-04-2003, 03:40 PM	#11
david2z4 Scooby Specialist Member#: 1838 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: WA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza RS BRP Vishnu Turbo/Tec3	speed limit signs apply to from the point of the sign forward, not from the piont you can see the sign. I got nailed for the same thing. I turned out onto a road and 2 blocks down there was a 45mph sign. The other direction were I was at was 45 but where I turned out that direction was still 35. I was doing 40 so I got a ticket. Took it to court and the judge said "drive at a speed you can afford" This is real tricky when one way it is 35 and the other direction on the same place on the same road is 45. Tricky bastards. Never been on that road before, how could I know what the speed was when I just turned onto it.

06-04-2003, 04:28 PM	#12
pdxscoob Scooby Newbie Member#: 28732 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: '03 WRX Wagon Silver	thanks david, the messed up thing is that going the other way it is not posted 25 until you actually cross 2nd ave and are in the middle of downtown. thanks gabe for doing some leg work for me as well. i looked through a drivers ed manual and it says nothing about when on the road the speed limit starts. Franz

06-04-2003, 06:32 PM	#13
Dr Ken Scooby Specialist Member#: 5885 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Portland Oregon Vehicle: 2000 RS (GME) SilvAr	I notice most of Burnside is 25 and a favored spot for the fuzz to cruise. Is that a new traffic-light-camera on Burnside by Powell's? It's a bastard... if you're not stopped during amber, it'll snap you (me) exactly at red. -Ken

06-06-2003, 11:10 AM	#16
Kucheto Scooby Newbie Member#: 3688 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: PDX Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5RS Blue Ridge Pearl	David Glasscock is right. I've gotten away from 2 photo radar tickets. That was almost 2 years ago. I don't remember getting a picture of the car with me in it, but maybe now they do that. Anywayz, I got a twin brother, so I told them he was driving both times! Never paid for nothin' If the pic you got is not that clear and looks like somebody you know, all you have to do is send them a copy of that person's drivers' licence or maybe even just put his name down. Good Luck!

06-06-2003, 11:11 AM	#17
serious Scooby Specialist Member#: 22879 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: missoula , montana	Well you could tell them you're dislexic and thought the speed limit was 52! Or you could just put a cover over your plate to make it harder to see. Or you could just pay the ticket, but where's the fun it that? B

11-23-2003, 07:21 PM	#18
cky211 Scooby Specialist Member#: 31129 Join Date: Dec 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Spokane WA Vehicle: 02 WRX MPB No TGV + lots of P&P	ttt

11-23-2003, 11:51 PM	#19
drifterx Scooby Specialist Member#: 25128 Join Date: Sep 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Yakima, Washington Vehicle: 1983 911sc Matte Mexico Blue :)	if you have anyone elese on your insurance you can fight it and say you may have not been driving the car at the time. by you have someone elese on you insurance this will help you in court because there is a possibility that someone elese was/ couldve been driving your car at the time. at least when this type of thing happended to me. good luck

11-24-2003, 01:16 AM	#20
cky211 Scooby Specialist Member#: 31129 Join Date: Dec 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Spokane WA Vehicle: 02 WRX MPB No TGV + lots of P&P	How can a ticket stand up in court with no officer to back it up? -Scott A.

11-24-2003, 01:19 PM	#21
pdxscoob Scooby Newbie Member#: 28732 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: '03 WRX Wagon Silver	I am not sure why this was ressurrected, but I went down to the courthouse and the court clerk told me my options were if I pleaded guilty or no contest than she would cut the ticket in half so about $50 or I could plead not guilty and have to set up a hearing to go in front of the judge in a month or two. The photo radar thing is just a scam for the city to make money. I just read that they are now going to give the cops quotas to meet, where they have to hand out 10 tickets or written warnings every month. If we had a sales tax or if the idiot voters would pass measures like measure 28, we would not have these problems. climbs off soap box and goes back to bed. franz

11-24-2003, 01:26 PM	#22
CosmoTheCat Scooby Newbie Member#: 3409 Join Date: Jan 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Woolley Vehicle: 1998 Ram 2500 Green.	There's no need for the government to take 1/2 of our income. What the government needs to do is cut the fat, not increase taxes. Washington has a sales tax and they're talking about adding a state income tax. Great. Once they start a tax it's very difficult to get them to give it up - they'll waste the money to show they HAVE to keep it before they willingly give it up.