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Old 06-14-2003, 07:06 PM   #1
rlavalle
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Default Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Well, I just completed the break-in and took the beastie onto the track for some truly aggressive driving. We went to Spokane Raceway Park, a nice road race course with a couple fast (147MPH/6th gear) straights and slow corners (2nd gear).

The Good:
Wonderful power & torque. The thing just claws out of corners. Great power for out accelerating Porsches & Beemers on the straights. The brakes are solid, with no big issues once race pads (Porterfield R4) and high temp fluid (Super Blue) are fitted.

The Bad:
It needs more camber adjustment! My alignment shop could only get -1 degree in the front and -1.5 in the back (with camber bolts installed). I'd like to get -2 and -1.5.

This isn't too bad, but the brake lines need to be upgraded to steel braided units. The pedal is too soft for easy heel-toe (or in my case, left/right foot pivot).

The Ugly:
I had the engine cut out on me a handful of times while at WOT in 5th gear at around 5k RPM, followed by a CEL. Pulling the code showed code 0244 "Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid A Range/Performance". So I'm thinking the ECU thinks the boost is too high to control with the Boost Solenoid. Strange, since the only mods are silencer removed and Turbo-back exhaust. The boost gauge showed boost at about 16psi. EGTs at WOT, high RPM were 1560F or so.

No noticeable knock though.

All in all, a great time. But the CEL & engine cut are disturbing.

Russ
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Last edited by rlavalle; 06-14-2003 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 06-14-2003, 07:23 PM   #2
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FWIW,

I had the same code (P0244) on my WRX WAY back when I had a BPM down pipe and the wastegate valve was contacting the divider plate on the DP not allowing the wastegate to open fully. Filed the divider plate down and never had the light again.
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Old 06-14-2003, 07:59 PM   #3
rlavalle
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr2guru
FWIW,

I had the same code (P0244) on my WRX WAY back when I had a BPM down pipe and the wastegate valve was contacting the divider plate on the DP not allowing the wastegate to open fully. Filed the divider plate down and never had the light again.
Hmmm... Did you get a chance to check your Boost readings? Did they get too high?

My ScoobySport Downpipe has no divider, so I need to keep looking.

Thanks,

Russ
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Old 06-14-2003, 09:48 PM   #4
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According to the service manual, if there are no other trouble codes then the wastegate control solenoid valve should be replaced. But you probably already knew that! Maybe you just have a faulty solenoid.

I just got through my break-in today as well and went on some of my favorite back roads. I felt the brake pedal was pretty good for heel/toe, much better than my WRX. I agree on the torque and power comments, it is really amazing. Even at high altitude. Oh yea, no pinging here either, even after over 45 minutes of pretty hard driving.

TRS
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Old 06-14-2003, 09:52 PM   #5
hatchy
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Default Re: Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Russ,

Are you sure about the EGT? Unless our pistons are iron (which wouldn't work on a block with iron sleeves), I think they would start to melt around 1500F.

Quote:
Originally posted by rlavalle
The boost gauge showed boost at about 16psi. EGTs at WOT, high RPM were 1740F.


Russ [/b]
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Old 06-14-2003, 09:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re: Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Quote:
Originally posted by hatchy
Russ,

Are you sure about the EGT? Unless our pistons are iron (which wouldn't work on a block with iron sleeves), I think they would start to melt around 1500F.

No way, even the crappy cast wrx pistons hang tough at 1600f
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Old 06-14-2003, 10:09 PM   #7
rlavalle
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Wow! I don't know where I got that 1740F number... My GReddy EGT gauge showed 850C (1560F), so I must have converted wrong.

I've corrected the initial post.

Thanks,
Russ
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Old 06-14-2003, 10:37 PM   #8
hatchy
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Default Re: Re: Re: Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The melting point depends on what the piston is made of. Aluminum has a melting point of around 1500F (pure AL I think melts at 1200F). I think even forged pistons melt at 1700F?



Quote:
Originally posted by mlambert


No way, even the crappy cast wrx pistons hang tough at 1600f
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Old 06-14-2003, 11:09 PM   #9
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You can have combustion temps above the melting point of AL because the heat transfers trough the metal. NOx forms at temps above 2500deg F and it does not only happen cast-iron engines.
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Old 06-15-2003, 01:56 AM   #10
rlavalle
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I received some information from Clark Turner, a tuner in Arizona.

He says the CEL/fuel cut is caused by the ECU seeing 17.5psi for over 2 seconds.

I need to get a Manual Boost Controller to keep pressure in check. He also says that STi's don't have a problem with MBC's causing Part Throttle/Full Boost since the TPS crossover point is 20% TPS.

Russ
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:38 AM   #11
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Good to know, thanks.

Quote:
Originally posted by SubyTechMaster
You can have combustion temps above the melting point of AL because the heat transfers trough the metal. NOx forms at temps above 2500deg F and it does not only happen cast-iron engines.
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Old 06-15-2003, 08:08 AM   #12
Jon [in CT]
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Quote:
Originally posted by rlavalle
I received some information from Clark Turner, a tuner in Arizona.

He says the CEL/fuel cut is caused by the ECU seeing 17.5psi for over 2 seconds.

I need to get a Manual Boost Controller to keep pressure in check. He also says that STi's don't have a problem with MBC's causing Part Throttle/Full Boost since the TPS crossover point is 20% TPS.

Russ
I don't think Clark (AKA AZScooby) has access, yet, to the USDM STi's ECU programming logic. The CEL/fuel cut being caused by 17.5 PSI of boost for 2+ seconds is the logic programmed into USDM WRXes. And I seriously doubt the USDM STi's TPS crossover point for switching from closed-loop A/F control to open-loop is as low as a 20% opening angle, although this may be true of STi's sold in other markets.

The symptoms you describe are consistant with "boost creep" where the wastegate is unable to divert enough exhaust, even though it's commanded open, to prevent boost pressure from continuing to rise. In the past (on WRXes), I believe this has usually been cured by using a different aftermarket turbo-back exhaust system. BTW, which one are you using?

I have no idea why Clark thinks a manual boost controller would help and I, personally, would steer clear of it.
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Old 06-15-2003, 10:15 AM   #13
rlavalle
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Well, an MBC would be a cheap test.

I also plan a quick test by routing pressure output from the turbo directly to the wastegate actuator to see if boost creeps up.

I have a ScoobySport exhaust.

Russ
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:54 PM   #14
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Russ,

Where do you have the EGT gauge mounted? This will also make a difference on temp readings.

I know for the VW/Audi 1.8t, the stage III kits (around 300hp) out there produce around 1600deg temps in the manifold, and this isnt a problem. I would imagine that the STi should be able to take such temps as well, as Subaru has some good engineers
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Old 06-15-2003, 06:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Quote:
Originally posted by rlavalle
The Ugly:
I had the engine cut out on me a handful of times while at WOT in 5th gear at around 5k RPM, followed by a CEL. Pulling the code showed code 0244 "Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid A Range/Performance". So I'm thinking the ECU thinks the boost is too high to control with the Boost Solenoid. Strange, since the only mods are silencer removed and Turbo-back exhaust. The boost gauge showed boost at about 16psi. EGTs at WOT, high RPM were 1560F or so.

No noticeable knock though.

All in all, a great time. But the CEL & engine cut are disturbing.

Russ [/b]
At what RPM, gear and load were you seeing 16 psi - I'd be suprised if you were making 16 psi at redline?

Kevin
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Old 06-15-2003, 10:36 PM   #16
Jon [in CT]
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Default Re: Re: Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket


At what RPM, gear and load were you seeing 16 psi - I'd be suprised if you were making 16 psi at redline?

Kevin
As you can see from the extract you quoted:
Quote:
I had the engine cut out on me a handful of times while at WOT in 5th gear at around 5k RPM, followed by a CEL. Pulling the code showed code 0244 "Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid A Range/Performance".
I'm guessing that, under those conditions, he's not paying strict attention to his boost gauge. I think we're talking about at least 140 mph.
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Old 06-16-2003, 01:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
He also says that STi's don't have a problem with MBC's causing Part Throttle/Full Boost since the TPS crossover point is 20% TPS.
Uhh, you sure he understands how the drive by wire system works? This statement makes me think he's never even seen an STi, let alone read the service manual.

Were you cornering hard when the engine cut?

Glenn
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:00 AM   #18
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Glenn

FWIW
I fitted my STI with an EBC and tried to get part throttle high EGT's but can't. Boost set at 16psi but can only get 16psi in 5th and 6th above 5500rpm. I live at 3600ft BTW. Small turbo sucks.

EGT's go straight to 1550f in all gears but not 1 degree more. Good A/F sensor me thinks.

As far as the wheel alignment one should mention the caster on the STI is 4.5degs stock which is a full degree more than a WRX fitted with ALK. You can also flip the 2 bolt mount that joins the aluminum arm to the rear pivot to get even more, its offset if you look. I was also able to get 1.5 neg camber on the front stock.
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:50 AM   #19
rlavalle
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I placed my sensor where the two passenger side exhaust ports meet. Probably about 5 or 6 inches from the exhaust valves.

Russ

Quote:
Originally posted by Turbobug
Russ,

Where do you have the EGT gauge mounted? This will also make a difference on temp readings.

I know for the VW/Audi 1.8t, the stage III kits (around 300hp) out there produce around 1600deg temps in the manifold, and this isnt a problem. I would imagine that the STi should be able to take such temps as well, as Subaru has some good engineers
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:51 AM   #20
rlavalle
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Default Re: Re: Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket


At what RPM, gear and load were you seeing 16 psi - I'd be suprised if you were making 16 psi at redline?

Kevin
It was about 5000RPM, WOT in 5th gear.

Russ
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:53 AM   #21
rlavalle
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Default Re: Re: Re: Sti Track Day: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

No... 5th gear tops out at 120 to 125. 5k RPM is more like 100 or so.

Russ

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
As you can see from the extract you quoted: I'm guessing that, under those conditions, he's not paying strict attention to his boost gauge. I think we're talking about at least 140 mph.
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:56 AM   #22
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I think so. This guy is a well respected tuner, doing UTEC, and WRX ECU mapping. He is working on the STi now. He picked it up and immediately took it to his dyno.

I think he knows what he's talking about.

Oh, and no, I was blazing down the straight.

Russ

Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace


Uhh, you sure he understands how the drive by wire system works? This statement makes me think he's never even seen an STi, let alone read the service manual.

Were you cornering hard when the engine cut?

Glenn
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Old 06-16-2003, 11:54 AM   #23
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Speaking of blazing down the straight(and corners too), here's a few shots I got of you Russ. Let me know if you want any of the full size originals.



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Old 06-16-2003, 01:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by rlavalle
I placed my sensor where the two passenger side exhaust ports meet. Probably about 5 or 6 inches from the exhaust valves.

Russ

fwiw, 9x% of WRX failures occur in #4 cylinder (driver's side), which tends to run the hotest. Most of us put the EGT on the 2-4 header merge. I'd rethink your location if I was you.

-C
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Old 06-16-2003, 01:44 PM   #25
rlavalle
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Quote:
Originally posted by Razlak
Speaking of blazing down the straight(and corners too), here's a few shots I got of you Russ. Let me know if you want any of the full size originals.

These are great shots! I'd love full res. versions!

My email only allows about 3MB worth of enclosures, but if you place them somewhare I can grab 'em from I'd be happy to.

Thanks,
Russ
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