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Old 06-16-2003, 02:33 AM   #1
BALISTC
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Default Just had ANTI LAG installed on my WRX :)

Hey guys

Last week, I had my Link ECU upgraded to Group N spec (as well as fitting the latest update chip), which means its now running ANTI LAG

First impressions..

Its the best thing I've ever heard, it puts many cammed V8s to shame when its in rotational idle mode....the whole car shakes from side to side, and I must say, it turns a LOT of heads

As soon as the revs come up, full anti lag mode operates automatically, and when I come off the throttle, there are massive pops and bangs out of the exhaust, and a VERY loud anti lag idle...its very loud because the throttle is almost completely open, but the engine uses cyclical fuel limiting to keep the rpm down.

Driving impressions?

VERY loud, and very difficult to drive...the car bucks around at low rpm because of the massive throttle opening, but once the throttle is applied, it takes off! My VF22 turbo is making full boost in the low 2000rpm range with the anti lag, and as for launching, as soon as the revs are up and ANY load is put on the motor, the boost shoots to 1.2 bar in an instant, and the car takes off in a flurry of wheelspin and tyre smoke. I managed to lay 4 strips of rubber coming out of a street yesterday when I tried to take off very quickly in front of oncoming traffic!

If I rev it out to 5000rpm whilst in gear and back off, there are much bigger bangs and flames shooting out of the exhaust.....MUCH louder and more aggressive than the smaller pops and bangs you get when revving the engine in neutral. As soon as the throttle is applied again, the car rockets forwards with maximum boost INSTANTLY.

My anti lag system is setup to make 0 psi at idle, but no vacuum either, so as soon as any load is placed on the engine, the boost shoots up. Even cruising around at 40 mph in 4th gear, is making 0.2-0.4 bar! The brakes are quite hard though, because there is no vacuum, so you have to press harder on the pedal to stop.

At the track yesterday, it assisted me in running a 12.87 1/4 mile, and I must say, off the line, it would produce some serious wheelspin, often smoking the tyres as the car took off. I deflated them a bit later on to get traction and I ran the 12.87.

Here is a small video my friend took of my car at the track yesterday (parked after a race), with the anti lag system running.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/rx7power/antilag.avi

You can hear the pops and bangs and the loud anti lag idle, but he didnt record the lumpy rotational idle, which I'll be video taping soon and putting up on the forums

Cheers guys,

Joe
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Last edited by BALISTC; 06-16-2003 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:42 AM   #2
Brahmzy
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COOL!
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:45 AM   #3
AntiochCali
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Default

Congradulations!

Looks like fun

Anti-Lag is VERY hard on turbo's though. I was with another guy who had a Garrett hybrid and he blew through 3 turbos in about 3 months...the first one only went a couple of weeks.

He gave up after that because the turbos were costing him about $800 each to rebuild.

Please keep us posted, because the VF-22 is a relatively weak turbo, if yours lasts for a few months then I am certain I will want it too
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:57 AM   #4
BALISTC
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by AntiochCali
Please keep us posted, because the VF-22 is a relatively weak turbo, if yours lasts for a few months then I am certain I will want it too
APPARENTLY, IHI turbos are slightly more suited to anti lag applications than Garrett turbos....

In Australia, especially where I live, there are quite a few WRXs running anti lag, and they all have IHI turbos...I havent heard of any giving up because of the anti lag, but I have heard of a few Garrett equipped cars blowing turbos due to anti lag.

The reasoning behind it is that the IHI turbos are actually used in Group N rally cars which run anti lag 100% of the time, so they are "made for it", so to speak, or at least slightly more suited to the application than Garrett turbos

But I'll let you guys know how it goes...I'm sure the turbo will last a LONG time, because I dont intend on using the anti lag very often...in fact, I've used it for no more than about 5-10 minutes since I got it, and about 1 minute of that time was at the drags, the rest was taking mates for blasts on the street the first day I got it...

Now I just intend on using the rotational idle, not only for that all important "BLING BLING" factor, but because rotational idle is beneficial to the motor and turbo because it uses fuel to physically cool down the engine, turbo and exhaust
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Old 06-16-2003, 05:18 AM   #5
FloridaWRX
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how much quicker is the 12.8 than you have run previous ? i dont know your mods or state of tune.. but i was expecting a faster 1/4 mile
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Old 06-16-2003, 05:33 AM   #6
BALISTC
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Default

Previously, I ran a 13.8, with no anti lag or VF22, and an up pipe leak..

My current mph indicates I can do a mid 12, which is VERY quick for an Australian WRX..

Its weird, because for some reason the USA WRXs are doing times which just arent possible in Australia, for example, running 12s on a stock turbo is completely unheard of over here!

And the cars over there are making much more power on the dynos than we are over here. 260hp at the wheels is considered very modified here, where as over in the USA, many people are doing it every day!

Maybe the cars are slightly different? Or maybe the drag strips are timed differently???
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Old 06-16-2003, 06:50 AM   #7
AK_2002_WRX
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Talking

so is it like the Evo III in initial D? j/k.
what does the system look like?
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Old 06-16-2003, 07:12 AM   #8
flyingace
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Question

Ok Guys ! What is Anti-lag ?
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Old 06-16-2003, 07:41 AM   #9
el~sharko
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by flyingace
Ok Guys ! What is Anti-lag ?
read the first post
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Old 06-16-2003, 08:09 AM   #10
BALISTC
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Default

I'll explain it a bit better

Anti-lag systems retard the ignition timing so unburned fuel passes through the engine and, instead of igniting in the engine, ignites in the exhaust manifold, and spins the turbo over.

The air needed for this combustion is provided by the standard throttle body, which is opened to a greater extent than normal whilst anti-lag is running...thus the reason it has a solenoid to keep the throttle open

The ECU uses an idle control sequence so that once you've set the target idle speed, the anti-lag will cut a spark in a rotational sequence with each cylinder, which is why they idle so lumpy, and thus the reason its called rotational idle. If there was no rotational idle, the engine wouldnt idle at all, because the throttle is so far open that the engine would just rev.

The theory is, as soon as you open the throttle, you have full boost and no lag
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Old 06-16-2003, 09:38 AM   #11
sherifx
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Default

Congrats man!

I've been very interested in this for a long time. I'm very curious to see how the turbo and drivetrain stand the test of time. Can you get screen shots of the software and the setting? I'm curious to see what its like. Thanks alot. Oh and please keep us updated.


sherif
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Old 06-16-2003, 10:03 AM   #12
ZoomnWRX
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Default

wow thats pretty cool. i've never seen anyone put it in a street car before. you crazy australians! hehe
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Old 06-16-2003, 10:28 AM   #13
BALISTC
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Default

I havent got any screen shots of the AL setup because I didnt do the Link tuning myself, but I do have the PC Link software....what I CAN do though, is get my hands on a serial link ASAP (if I can find a willing lender), upload my map to the computer and then grab some screen shots

Cheers guys
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Old 06-16-2003, 10:50 AM   #14
O2-GGA
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Linky no worky
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Old 06-16-2003, 11:21 AM   #15
vile
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Default

that's pretty cool.....never heard of anti-lag till now.....so i assume this can be turn on and off at anytime? also, it sounds like it would foul you're plugs up quit quickly wouldn't it?
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:03 PM   #16
silverscooby
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Default

Anti-lag sounds like a way cool modification to a race car but I wouldnt want it on my street car. That is alot of stress on the car!

For those who don't know what anti-lag is, read THIS
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:36 PM   #17
RiftsWRX
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Default

heheh yeah, no doubt!

People are breaking stuff on something simple like launch control, much less anti-lag

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 06-16-2003, 01:41 PM   #18
Orson
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An engine engineer once told me that exhaust manifold metalurgy is marginal as it is. When I told him about anti-lag used in WRC vehicles, his eye-balls nearly fell out.

Me? I don't know squat.
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:04 PM   #19
PaulRex
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Thats sweet, I would love to drive around everyday with anti-lag system It's definatly hard on the turbo/engine though, and IMO should be left to actual rally cars.
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Old 06-16-2003, 03:30 PM   #20
kenshiro
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Dude, this is a very cool thread.

I would love to try this on my car. So anti-lag is just a way of tuning the engine? I always thought there were additional parts needed.

Has anybody made an anti-lag map for the UTEC?
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Old 06-16-2003, 07:18 PM   #21
Chuck H
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Yeah, I can only think of a few problems with anti-lag on a street car -- it's going to burn up your O2 sensors in no time flat, probably blow up the turbo in pretty short order, and it will definitely blow out the cats as well. Other than that, it's a great mod for all-out race cars.
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Old 06-16-2003, 08:07 PM   #22
BALISTC
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck H
Yeah, I can only think of a few problems with anti-lag on a street car -- it's going to burn up your O2 sensors in no time flat, probably blow up the turbo in pretty short order, and it will definitely blow out the cats as well. Other than that, it's a great mod for all-out race cars.
Well I dont have any cats, so thats all good.....my up-pipe was made out of thick wall stainless steel, because we contemplated me running anti-lag in the future, and the IHI turbos are actually more suited to anti-lag than any of the garretts because they are made as a Group N rally turbo, meaning that they can take a bit more anti-lag, which is a start

One of my friends has an MY99 Version 5 STi 2 door (yep, we got these in Australia), and he has been running anti-lag on and off quite often, for the best part of 2 years, and done about 40 thousand miles.....its MUCH more aggressive than my anti-lag, and he is still on his original VF28 turbo, so thats a good sign

The anti lag is NOT a good street modification. When the engine is in anti-lag stand by mode, the idle is lumpy and makes the whole car shake, not to mention it being super loud.

To take off, you have to bring the revs up or it'll stall and buck around like a demon, which isnt good for the clutch (I've already gotten a whiff of burning clutch a couple of times).

The actual engine is MUCH louder with the anti-lag turned on, because of the massive air flow, its pops and jumps around at low speed, and if you go over the anti-lag rpm threshold, the car gets even LOUDER, and pops flames. It has very hard brakes due to the lack of vacuum, and it can catch you out if your not careful. Rally cars dont have to worry about vacuum because they run pedal boxes anyway

Even though it is hard to drive, it looks and sounds VERY hardcore

Different story at the track though. It produces tyre smoking launches, boost comes on instantly, and there is no need for flat changing or anything like that, because the anti-lag does all the work for you keeping the engine on boost

The rotational idle is actually beneficial to the turbo, it cools it right down after a run, and if you feel the engine bay, you can actually feel how cool it is if you leave the rotational idle on for a while.

Lucky the whole system is switchable, if it wasnt I wouldnt like to drive it!
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Old 06-17-2003, 01:47 AM   #23
BALISTC
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Default

Here's some food for thought..

After speaking to WRX and rally experts, Race Torque Engineering this morning, the director said he has NEVER seen a turbo die from anti-lag use, not even on any of the Group N rally cars he has prepared!

He said the thing that kills the turbos, exhaust valves and exhaust manifolds are excessive EGTs and the only way you can make an EGT excessive with antilag, is to rev it out at high rpm and back off the throttle, and throw flames for minutes at a time, which no one in their right mind would do anyway...

Apart from that, even though the turbo is boosting more often than normal, the mixtures are incredibly rich, meaning the EGTs will not get excessively high in normal use
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Old 06-17-2003, 12:40 PM   #24
worry
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I've been running occasional mild antilag on a scooby roadcar since late 1999. This was originally on Motec M48 Pro management, but is now running on a Pectel T6. The car has been through a series of different flavour turbo's and various different engine configurations through that time and, as yet, i haven't had any real issues with the ALS. The Pectel T6 ALS system includes an EGT recovery strategy that reduces or disables ALS when EGT's hit user mapped figures, so you can reduce ALS agression as EGT's rise to prevent over heating the turbo. To date, I have yet to see more than 800C at the turbo in the current configuration, (currently a TD05/06 18G hybrid with external WG) at any time.
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Old 06-17-2003, 03:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by worry
I've been running occasional mild antilag on a scooby roadcar since late 1999. This was originally on Motec M48 Pro management, but is now running on a Pectel T6. The car has been through a series of different flavour turbo's and various different engine configurations through that time and, as yet, i haven't had any real issues with the ALS. The Pectel T6 ALS system includes an EGT recovery strategy that reduces or disables ALS when EGT's hit user mapped figures, so you can reduce ALS agression as EGT's rise to prevent over heating the turbo. To date, I have yet to see more than 800C at the turbo in the current configuration, (currently a TD05/06 18G hybrid with external WG) at any time.
with tiny 440 injectors
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