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Old 06-17-2003, 11:48 PM   #1
soloracer
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Default Porsche engine swap - SVX or WRX?

Hello,

I have a 1973 Porsche 914 with a widebody kit and am considering a Subaru engine for it. I bought the car for autocrossing and road course racing. The car currently is set up for a Porsche six but after looking at the cost of buying a Porsche six and the cost of repairing one I am looking at other alternatives. I've looked into Chevy 350's, Mazda 13B rotaries and even purchased a Toyota 3SGTE with thought of using it. After doing some more research I am intrigued by the thought of using a Subaru flat six or flat four.

So my question is, which would be the better choice for the car with a 350 rwhp goal with decent torque and a broad power band? I know the STi engines are close to that level stock but a turbo'd or N/A flat six really lights my fire. Could a 3.3 SVX engine be made to produce the power levels I desire? Would it be difficult and expensive to do? Or should I stick to the 4 cylinder engine?
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Old 06-18-2003, 02:34 AM   #2
soloracer
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Wow, lots of viewing but no posting going on. Surely someone must have some knowledge on the subject. Feel free to post....I won't bite I promise.

I have pictures of my 914 but don't know how to post them here. Do I have to have a website with links or can I somehow just upload them here?

Also, I noticed the 3.3 H6 has the same bore and stroke as the 2.2 STi engine. Could the STi pistons be used to lower the compression and set up the flat six for turbocharging?
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Old 06-18-2003, 03:24 AM   #3
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if u really want the best motor for what you are doing, wait till the forrester xts and legacys and bajas come out with a 2.5t in them, then wait for people the crash them. Those motors will be SIIIIIICK! (in a good way)
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Old 06-18-2003, 10:27 AM   #4
NotFast
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Quote:
Originally posted by soloracer
Wow, lots of viewing but no posting going on. Surely someone must have some knowledge on the subject. Feel free to post....I won't bite I promise.
I think your technical knowledge is already way above most of us & we're scared to answer!

Last edited by NotFast; 06-18-2003 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:14 AM   #5
mdot
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I suggest posting this in the factory forced or even the aftermarket forced induction forums. there are experts there that should gove you a difinitive answer.
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:53 AM   #6
Sea Dragon Rex
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The 2.0 legacy turbo has been done in a 914. A guy who lives near me did it. I'm not sure about the weight difference but I would guess the WRX engine would be lighter. I'll try to see if I can find his website because I think he listed all of the parts needed for the conversion and had pictures of how everything was installed.

The car was pretty quick with the Legacy engine. Can you imagine the performance of a WRX engine in a 2000# car? I used to have have a 914-6 with a 2.5L short stroke motor that had 220+ WHP. That was a fun car!
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Old 06-18-2003, 12:43 PM   #7
Jon [in CT]
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I recall that kastle (see http://www.scoobymods.com) once had a turbocharged SVX - low boost, though (3PSI). Since the SVX's EG33 engine has a bore and stroke identical to the Legacy Turbo EJ22 engine, perhaps using turbo EJ22 pistons and rods might reduce compression a little.
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Old 06-18-2003, 12:53 PM   #8
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People have already swapped 4 cylinder Subaru engines into VW Buses. Since the 914 and the bus both use the Type IV engine, you should be able to do the swap using the existing adaptors. The major problem will the radiator.
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Old 06-18-2003, 12:58 PM   #9
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The EJ20G was a closed deck motor that was initially designed to run in Group B WRC before they had hp limits on the cars, so it is considered to be the most bulletproof block and bottom end Subaru ever made. The EJ20G was in all JDM WRX's until 1996 then they only came in the WRX wagons until 1997. I think the US 2.2 turbo legacy motors have at least a semi-closed if not fully closed deck.

Are you looking to build from the block or buy something complete and mod it?
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Old 06-18-2003, 01:41 PM   #10
Kha0S
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Well, if you're looking to build up a motor, I'd start with the EJ22 closed deck legacy turbo block, and building it up from there... also, there's always the option of picking up one of the staged EJ25 systems from Cobb Tuning...

/Andrew
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Old 06-18-2003, 10:43 PM   #11
geronimo66
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Hey,

I am having a USDM ej20 swapped into my L, and I would like to start building a new shortblock, I figure I will end up killing this one. I was thinking that the ej22 was a good way to get a strong block with a little more kick.

Do you guys know of a good source for an EJ22 block?
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:26 PM   #12
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what about trany, he wants rear wheel drive. i know you can get the awd trany to just be a front or rear wheel but would you be able to bolt up a porche trany to a boxer? that would be cool.
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:33 PM   #13
soloracer
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Actually Kennedy Engineering makes adapter plates that will bolt a variety of engines to Porsche transmissions. Subaru engines are commonly used by sand rail guys, volkswagen Vanagon guys and kit plane guys. Most of them use the Kennedy adapter plates. Thanks for the replies.
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Old 06-19-2003, 12:00 AM   #14
soloracer
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Puck: I'm looking to buy something complete and modify it but if I have to I will build one from the ground up. I found an SVX engine with 170,000 miles for $500 US. I would consider rebuilding it but don't want to start down that road if the power goals can't economically be met or if the engine wasn't going to be reliable.
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Old 06-19-2003, 12:54 AM   #15
soloracer
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Here are some pictures:







The car weighs in at 1400 lbs without an engine or transmission. It has Kinesis 17" wheels (17 x 12 rear and 17 x 10 front) with 315/35 and 285/40 rubber on them. Needless to say I believe the car will need some decent power to make full use of the rubber.
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Old 06-19-2003, 10:40 AM   #16
M32WRXin3seconds
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Default why not an axis motor...

or a turbo ej20...or STI motor...those are your best bet for a whole bunch of power in that car....if your car weighs 2000lbs divided by 350hp= you still have under 6lbs per HP...thats INCREDIBLE...and 350 is just the beginning for an axis motor...or achieveable wheel HP for an sti
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Old 06-19-2003, 01:12 PM   #17
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look here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2419285594
this guy out of colorado sells the engines +link computers preprogramed

the air to water intercooler would be a better solution for a mid engine car ..i have no expirence with him

these guys work with the same motors for sand rails http://www.outbackmotors.com/home.htm and http://www.sandstallion.com/



that said i have seen where there was a guy back east that was using a SVX motor for his top-fuel syle dragster ..

if your willing to play with engine managemt the eg33 would be fine ... just don't plan to use the stock ecu

point 3 the EG33 is REALLY heavy compaird to the other motors
you might aslo consider an EZ30 out of hte new legacys
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Old 06-19-2003, 01:27 PM   #18
DanzBorin
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I have seen stuff about V8 shortblocks in those bad boys... my friend was going to do it, but didn't have the time or money... the end result is supposed to whip up on any street car for acceleration #s... even the 911 TT...
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Old 06-19-2003, 07:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by geronimo66
Do you guys know of a good source for an EJ22 block?
Chris,

You just missed one locally. Yamarocket (John) had a brand new EJ22t shortblock for sale.
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Old 06-19-2003, 07:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaxx
that said i have seen where there was a guy back east that was using a SVX motor for his top-fuel syle dragster ..

if your willing to play with engine managemt the eg33 would be fine ... just don't plan to use the stock ecu

point 3 the EG33 is REALLY heavy compaird to the other motors
you might aslo consider an EZ30 out of hte new legacys
EG33 weighs about 400 pounds fully dressed (alternator, AC comp, etc). I know since I recently had one shipped.

Frank Aragona (sp?) has been very successfully drag racing an EG33 powered car for a couple of years now.

Axis Power Racing has been working on the new EZ30 for a while now with a 1000hp goal. I'd recommend you speak to Ron about your engine.

Todd
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Old 06-19-2003, 07:45 PM   #21
serious
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What engine you go with will depend on your budget. A local guy tried putting a 3.3 H6 svx motor into his 76 911 just to find out it didn't fit. It could've fit if he would've turned the intake runners around and did some cutting, but that was too involved for him.
So he bougt an older 2.7 H6 from a xt6 and it fits nicely. Only problem is these engines are guttless and don't have the techincal support the other engines do.
I would suggest looking into the newest EZ3.0 engine. They are lighter, more powerful and a lot shorter than most of the 6's out there.
Good luck.
Brent
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Old 06-21-2003, 02:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: Porsche engine swap - SVX or WRX?

Quote:
Originally posted by soloracer
So my question is, which would be the better choice for the car with a 350 rwhp goal with decent torque and a broad power band? I know the STi engines are close to that level stock but a turbo'd or N/A flat six really lights my fire. Could a 3.3 SVX engine be made to produce the power levels I desire? Would it be difficult and expensive to do? Or should I stick to the 4 cylinder engine?
I think that you should be able to build an svx motor to make 400 crank HP, with high compression, hot cams, etc. But would it be worth it?

I think you'd just be better off with an sti swap of some sort, either the 2.0 RA, or the US 2.5 motors. Both would meet your performance goals with a low level of drama.

Kevin
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Old 06-22-2003, 04:32 AM   #23
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as big of a subaru fan i am, i have to tell you a chevy 350 would be alot easier and cheaper. For one many have put v8's in these, my buddies put a 383 in one, the thing is wicked. There are many examples to follow with v8's. but an ej20 would be pretty cool too. whatever you do mid engine rear wheel dr is the most fun you can have in a car.
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Old 06-22-2003, 10:29 PM   #24
206legacy
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Default Re: Porsche engine swap - SVX or WRX?

Quote:
Originally posted by soloracer
Hello,

I have a 1973 Porsche 914 with a widebody kit and am considering a Subaru engine for it. I bought the car for autocrossing and road course racing. The car currently is set up for a Porsche six but after looking at the cost of buying a Porsche six and the cost of repairing one I am looking at other alternatives. I've looked into Chevy 350's, Mazda 13B rotaries and even purchased a Toyota 3SGTE with thought of using it. After doing some more research I am intrigued by the thought of using a Subaru flat six or flat four.

So my question is, which would be the better choice for the car with a 350 rwhp goal with decent torque and a broad power band?
350 whp and broad torque? i myself would just go with the small block chevy. its been done many times, is more documented, and when you want more power, your only limitation is money. the chevy swap would be cheaper by far, better power, but far heavier. If your set on the suby engine, go with a legacy turbo engine (ej22t). better for boost and more torque. whatever way you go, it will bee really cool and really fun. good luck.
skole
jeremy
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Old 06-22-2003, 11:28 PM   #25
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A 350 is a lot of power, but it's HEAVY, even with an aluminum block. Z cars a RX7s and lots and lots of other imports make a good drag car with one, but it throws the weight balance all out of whack for racing. Stick to the turbo Porsche or Suby motor.
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