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Old 06-23-2003, 10:27 AM   #1
dyswtric27
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Question motor build: p&p or GT turbo?

Well I have just about all the parts to start my ej22t hybrid motor. I am going to run the ej22t block with 2000 SOHC ej25 head and headgasket. I am getting custom grinded cams, stiffer springs and retainers. Now I am considering getting the head ported and polished as well as the intake manifold (possibly extrude hone) but I am not sure if it will be worth it. The money that is spent on all of this could easily be put a nice GT30R or such, as a huge upgrade from my t3/t04e. I know it will be highly beneficial to upgrade all the motor at once, but is the port and polish really worth the money. I would like to have a nice powerband from the motor and be able to acieve 350 whp or so.

If I am totally unrealistic let me know. So it comes down to the question, is it worth it for the port and polish or upgraded GT turbo?

Jason
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Old 06-23-2003, 07:45 PM   #2
kaos200
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look at it this way

P&P, easy to do when engines out.
Turbo upgrade, easy to do whenever (or hard, however you look at it)

Do the port and polish and save up for the turbo later.
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Old 06-23-2003, 07:50 PM   #3
dyswtric27
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yeah, throughout the day i thought about it and that was the conclusion i came to. The port and polish is definitely easy while the motor is out, plus iON is going to do the p&p, custom grind the cams and throw in their springs and retainers. This way I can be sure the entire head is assembled correctly by them.

Also on a side note, i am running the ludespeed stage II kit (but with a Link and 550s now) so a GT series will supposedly not fit the up and downpipe combination. So iON said they would take the t3/t04 and use the turbine housing, throw on a bigger compressor housing and a GT cartridge. As well as do there special turbo treatment. Just thought I would pass this on to any ludespeed guys looking for some more power.
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:50 PM   #4
Midwayman
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Eh.... If I were going to the trouble of buying a gt30 I would get the pipes to fit it instead of fiddleing with all the housings and such. One of the benefits of the gt series is improved aerodynamics of the wheels and housings. Dont give that up.
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Old 06-23-2003, 11:13 PM   #5
Eric SS
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Your heads will flow quite enough air without being ported and polished for the EJ22T. spend your money elsewhere.

You don't want to lose even MORE low end power than you will with the EJ22T and bigger cams.

Make sure you get an aftermarket ECU as well because cams will not benefit you at your stock 6,250rpm redline.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:05 AM   #6
kaos200
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eric v5.7 beta
Your heads will flow quite enough air without being ported and polished for the EJ22T. spend your money elsewhere.

You don't want to lose even MORE low end power than you will with the EJ22T and bigger cams.

Make sure you get an aftermarket ECU as well because cams will not benefit you at your stock 6,250rpm redline.
right but would they flow enough for 350whp? I highly doubt that myself, better flow and headwork can't hurt for the goals he's aiming for, provided that the cams aren't crazy!
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:38 AM   #7
Eric SS
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaos200


right but would they flow enough for 350whp? I highly doubt that myself, better flow and headwork can't hurt for the goals he's aiming for, provided that the cams aren't crazy!
Not sure but 350whp on stock EJ22T internals is probably pushing it also.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:56 AM   #8
dyswtric27
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true, 350 on the stock ej22t internals may be near the edge. But without the head ported I dont think i can get anywhere close. I will simply not be able to get the air into the motor that I need. In terms of cams, i dont think they will be crazy, just suited to my application. I also run the Link+ now and will raising the redline to around 8000 or so.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:25 AM   #9
Eric SS
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Quote:
Originally posted by dyswtric27
true, 350 on the stock ej22t internals may be near the edge. But without the head ported I dont think i can get anywhere close. I will simply not be able to get the air into the motor that I need. In terms of cams, i dont think they will be crazy, just suited to my application. I also run the Link+ now and will raising the redline to around 8000 or so.
You might want to talk to DannyRS. He had an EJ22T and was pushing around 18-19psi through it I think using the stock heads and cams with a t03/04 (with some special impeller) and he literally bent a rod about 90 degrees. It was actually hitting the bottom of the bore on its way up. There's a great (yet tragic) video of what it sounded like.

He was probably making about 300hp at the wheels I'm guessing.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:32 AM   #10
dyswtric27
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I am surprised at only 300 at the wheels and blowing the block. There are a couple guys running the stock ej22t block with some built heads and probably a good bit of power more than that.

But then again, 300 at the wheels would translate to about what at the crank, 450 or so? This is assuming 35% drivetrain loss, do we have that much?

I am also wondering why guys on the usdm ej20 can easily push 300+ at the wheels on the stock block. Is this motor just that much stronger than the ej22t?
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Old 06-24-2003, 02:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaos200


right but would they flow enough for 350whp? I highly doubt that myself, better flow and headwork can't hurt for the goals he's aiming for, provided that the cams aren't crazy!
Kian's right, heads are where the power's made...some headwork would definitely help out the motor in the long run.
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Old 06-24-2003, 02:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by dyswtric27

But then again, 300 at the wheels would translate to about what at the crank, 450 or so? This is assuming 35% drivetrain loss, do we have that much?
It doesnt work quite like that. If you run fuel calcs with straight percentage loss numbers you end up with HP number you couldnt possibly achieve.

Its more like a set amount of hp lost + a small percentage.
Stock RS loses about 45 hp on a mustang dyno. so 300 whp would be like 350-360 most likely.
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Old 06-25-2003, 08:26 AM   #13
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Are you the first to get this job done from ION? i'm not a fan of theres for serious work. I would look around for another who has done this to thier heads first...

BTW i choose the turbo route... since my car is not out... but cams aren't all thier cracked up to be...
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Old 06-25-2003, 09:36 AM   #14
dyswtric27
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HOK-

ION said they have done this before as they have built many race motors. I do trust their work as I have looked at some of the motors and cars they have built.

Shoot me an email at jml66@cornell.edu .

Jason
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:20 AM   #15
HOK
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Thats quite interesting because i'm positive that ION has never built a race motor. but it could be the organization that they are contracting... but regardless i would urge caution and research your project... Large projects like these are tough when even the smallest things go wrong... I was wondering have you looked at Cobb? or axis? i've seen some of the blocks they build... very impressive... have you turbo charged your RS for a while?
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:03 AM   #16
dyswtric27
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They told me they built the motor for the fast 2.0L wrx wagon in the UK, even sent me an article on it.

As for the buildup, they are simply having the port and polish done, and throwing in some cams, springs and retainers. I am going to use the stock ej22t block and put that together myself. I would think its hard to mess up a cam, spring and retainer install as well as a port and polish, but your right you never know.

I have had the RS turbo for about 1.5 years now, just worried the motor will let go eventually so I decided to start a cheap motor build.
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Old 06-26-2003, 07:58 PM   #17
jeff22
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I p&p my heads myself. When i built my motor before the turbo, I P&P and extrude honed the manifold and port matched everything and played with the trottle body. Only that performed i gained 6th's in the quarter mile! Not bad for doing everything myself(Except the valve job) After i put the turbo in it I built the bottom end 8.5-1JE's, crower rods, stainless valves, cobb cams and spring, I ran 13.5 with 6 pounds of boost! Not bad for not having the tec2 tune properly. I just turned up the boost to 12psi I think with more tuning it will be in the mid to high 12's!!
How fast do you want to go and how much money do you want to spend. Jeff p
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