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Old 06-24-2003, 02:38 AM   #1
JonnySubaru
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Default Ok.. is a whiteline RSB stiffer than my Cusco?

I'm currently running Cusco sways on my WRX Wagon, but would like to get that throttle-off oversteer it had when I had only upgraded the rear bar. Is the Whiteline 24 mm bar actually stiffer? All things being equal one would think going from the Cusco 22mm to the 24mm would do the trick, but these bars aren't equal (besides the 22-24 thing!).

Has Anyone tried both?
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Old 06-24-2003, 05:51 AM   #2
Z1 Performance
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If you are not getting off throttle overstear, you are honestly not going fast enough.....you can easily get a bone stock WRX and RS to off throttle overstear, just takes the right entry angle and speed.

Adam
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:35 AM   #3
JonnySubaru
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Quote:
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
If you are not getting off throttle overstear, you are honestly not going fast enough.....you can easily get a bone stock WRX and RS to off throttle overstear, just takes the right entry angle and speed.
Adam
Believe me, when I'm drifting and do a snap-off the throttle it is either totally neutral or understeers. Remember, this is with a 21mm cusco front bar installed. Maybe gruppe-s sent me a thinner Cusco rear (I never checked to verify it was 22mm).
My rear bar is currently set to full stiff, too.

Does anyone have experience using both Cusco and Whiteline (or other) rear bars? How about the 26mm whiteline??

Last edited by JonnySubaru; 06-24-2003 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:03 PM   #4
Z1 Performance
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Believe me, I actually do know what I am talking about.......we have arguably been modding these cars for longer than anyone else in the country, and I have a good handle on what works and what doesn't.

When you say drifting, obviously there are alot of other factors involved...tires, pressure, suspension, rideheight and dampening settings.

I read that you have the 21mm front sway bar...its only 1 mm bigger than stock, so virtually no difference there. If you really must have oversteer off throttle overstear, there are few things you can do:

1. remove the front sway bar completely

2. increase front tire pressure, decrease rear pressure.

3. alter the driving style.....trail braking will certainly get the desired effect

The Whiteline is the same size as the Cusco (highest level of adjustment is (24mm).

I have never seen anyone bring in the smaller adjustable Cusco rear bar, so I assume you have the normal 22-24 one.

Adam
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Old 06-24-2003, 04:27 PM   #5
JonnySubaru
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Quote:
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Believe me, I actually do know what I am talking about.......we have arguably been modding these cars for longer than anyone else in the country, and I have a good handle on what works and what doesn't.

I read that you have the 21mm front sway bar...its only 1 mm bigger than stock, so virtually no difference there.
I have never seen anyone bring in the smaller adjustable Cusco rear bar, so I assume you have the normal 22-24 one.

Adam
Pardon my previous sarcasm.
There was a drastic difference after putting on the Cusco front bar. While it makes the car feel more stable and responsive during spirited driving, it noticeably causes understeer at the edge. I was hoping someone had found a bar that would have the same bias as when I was running the stock front (has 19mm marked on it I think) and the cusco in the rear on full-firm.
I'm guessing I need the 22-26mm Whiteline bar. (was hoping someone could confirm this).
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Old 06-24-2003, 08:11 PM   #6
Arnie
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I believe your larger front is the key. larger front bars equals more understeer. it gives you more roll resistance but at a cost. I also found that before I added my front bar, it was very easy to get the rear around at a medium setting on my Whiteline 22-24mm bar. Going to the 22mm front bar brought a lot of the stock understeer back. And that is to be expected. I tried the 24mm setting and was tail happy again but went back to the 22mm for a bit more security. Adam is correct when he says that driving style has a lot to do with how easily the car can be rotated. I can still get the ass end to swing around just like with the 24mm setting through proper set up in the turn.

You can, of course, go to a larger rear bar, the XRD series from Whiteline but i don't really recommend that. You will lose more of the compliancy/independence of your rear wheels. this can lead to lifting an inside rear wheel on sharp turns or bad traction on rough surfaces. Go back to the stock front bar/cusco rear if you really want to the ease of rotation that you had.

One question for you. did you also lower your car? If your rear camber is higher than before then you might be getting much more traction when turning from the rear wheels making them less susceptible to kicking out.
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Old 06-25-2003, 08:59 AM   #7
omahasubaru
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I have the same swaybars on my wagon as you say & I only have the bar set on the middle setting. I can still easily get off-throttle oversteer. It can be driver induced on almost any car.

I also ran with just the rear (no CUSCO front installed) & kept it on the softest setting as it was most neutral with a mild tendancy to oversteer. Obviously when I put the front on I bumped up the rear. I have yet to run the rear at full stiff as I haven't seen the need for it.

What setting do you have you're rear bar on? Maybe you've got it on the softest setting (furthest hole out).

Also what kind of tire/wheel package do you have on your car.. that can make a difference as well as tire pressures.

Still though not matter what your settings are, you can still induce oversteer by applying the proper inputs to your car.
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:59 AM   #8
jimb
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I'm running the 21/22 cusco combo on my sedan (thanks Adam!), anyway, it's pretty easy to get off-throttle oversteer with this combo, even more so now that my front camber is at 1.2. Hell, I remember being able to do it pretty easily with the stock sways and alignment as well. I wouldn't dare run my rear sways at any higher than 22 for fear of things getting out of control in an emergency maneuver situation.

jb
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:40 PM   #9
markus
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnySubaru
There was a drastic difference after putting on the Cusco front bar. While it makes the car feel more stable and responsive during spirited driving, it noticeably causes understeer at the edge. I was hoping someone had found a bar that would have the same bias as when I was running the stock front (has 19mm marked on it I think) and the cusco in the rear on full-firm.
I'm guessing I need the 22-26mm Whiteline bar. (was hoping someone could confirm this).
If I may make a suggestion, perhaps just looking at the rear bar isn't the only issue to consider.

I've been trying to get my RS to rotate without the snap oversteer that can sometimes be associated with a big rear bar. After looking for a long time, I finally found an alignment guy that has probably forgoten more about alignemnts than I will ever know in my lifetime. Simply put, he made some minor adjustements to my front alignment and added a bit more toe out in the rear (about 1mm). It made a significant difference in the way my car handles and lessend the effect of snap oversteer.

Just thinking out loud.

Cheers,
MB
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Old 06-26-2003, 02:54 AM   #10
JonnySubaru
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Thanks for all the replies. I did a spirited drive last night and overall the balance is just fine. I guess I was looking for an excuse to buy another sway bar =). With the front cusco bar, the car does tend to understeer initially- but overall this is probably safest considering my wife may drive it in the rain =).

In a high-speed drift, the car is almost dead neutral but with a snap-off the throttle it feels like it wants to come around (of course I apply the gas before finding out!)

I do have some other handling issues, such as all-season tires and an otherwise stock suspension. Once put in my koni inserts, alk, and new tires I'll head up the hill again to see.
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