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Old 09-20-2000, 06:44 AM   #1
Boxer4Racing
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Member#: 167
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Marshall, North Carolina
Thumbs up Unorthodox Underdrive Pulley / Belt kits for SVX

We now have the belt numbers to offer the Unorthodox Underdrive pulley for the SVX. We sell the pulley in kit form with the belts for $185.00 plus shipping. If you would like more information visit our web site at http://www.teaguesauto.com and drop us a email. The Underdrive pulley is good for 5-7 hp. and allows the engine to build rpm's faster by reducing the weight on the end of the crank.

Dale Teague (Teague's Auto)
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Old 11-13-2000, 01:37 PM   #2
Pski
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Greetings,

Many SVX owners have questioned the use of an underdrive pulley with our anemic alternators. I contacted Unorthodox Racing (www.unorthodoxracing.com) and their reply was "read our FAQ" which states it shouldn't be a problem. I was wondering if the pulley in conjunction with shotsky's alternator/battery cable upgrade would effectively cancel each other out. I am still waiting for them to produce a pulley system which will include all accessories...

Pski
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Old 11-13-2000, 03:17 PM   #3
kastle
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1999 Outback Sport
Steel Blue Mica

Post

What is "shotsky's alternator/battery cable upgrade"?
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Old 11-13-2000, 03:56 PM   #4
Pski
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Greetings,

Shotsky's upgrade is running 4 guage cable from the alternator to the battery. Less resistance...more power. Those of have performed the upgrade have noted a 2V increase at the cigarette lighter with a voltmeter.

I will try to post a pic here...

Pski
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Old 11-13-2000, 07:25 PM   #5
Pski
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Greetings,

No picture but you can find lots of good stuff about electrical upgrades at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/shotsky1?...l=fld7&.src=ph

He has also upgraded his alternator it appears...and he swears by the Optima battery or is it Ultima?

Pski
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Old 11-13-2000, 09:07 PM   #6
kastle
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Steel Blue Mica

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thanks for the info.
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Old 11-13-2000, 09:53 PM   #7
Never2phat
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I personally am going to upgrade my wires on Thursday afternoon. I've noticed recently that my dash lights have been diming a lil' when I come to a stop sign or when I'm in 'park'. I checked my battery and it seems to be okay. I checked the belt tension and it seems okay. I checked the alternator output and it's doing as well to be expected for how crappy our electrical sytems are. One more small problem to track down Hopefully getting those 2 extra volts will take care of it.

Have a great day everyone
B.C.

P.S. Anyone, Do you think it could just be the cold weather causing the car to work a lil' harder? Any ideas? "Thanx" in advance

[This message has been edited by Never2phat (edited November 13, 2000).]
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Old 11-16-2000, 09:33 AM   #8
Pski
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Greetings,

I have been thinking about this for awhile...

Is it possible to overdrive the alternator...ie...make the pulley even smaller so that it turns even faster? What effect would this have on the alternator other than shortening its lifespan?

Pski
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Old 11-28-2000, 03:40 PM   #9
immortal_suby
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140 rogue points!
2013 GBS BRZ Limited 6MT

Question

My alternator is now on its way out - I think the tech tightened the new belts a little too much and stressed the already 122k miles old bearings and now it is grinding pretty bad but has not exploded yet.
Carparts.com has a couple options, 2 are 95 amps, and another is 110 amps with internal regulator and its a bosch. All are priced close enough that I don't care about the difference ($200 - 250 + core). I am wondering if I should go for the 110 amp. Will the extra amperage somehow fry my wires? I figure on the bright side it would allow for an underdrive pulley in the future without sacrificing as much. I also plan on doing shotsky's upgrade along with a new alternator.
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Old 11-28-2000, 06:33 PM   #10
glenstiles
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Silver, baby, silver

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I think an upgraded alternator is fine- shouldn't have any negative effect on the electrical system. Underdrive pulleys sound cool, does any SVX owner have them right now? With the UD pulleys, a decent cold-air intake and custom exhaust, an SVX should be able to realistically put out like what, 250 hp?

Glen
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Old 12-24-2000, 02:28 PM   #11
blonde_man
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My current stock crank pulley is wobbling. It might not have been torqued down properly when the timing belt was changed a year ago. If it wobbles for too long, things start to break on it. Now it is offbalance, because a ring is broken. So even if I retighten it, it will still wobble.

I want to get the Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pulley from Teague's. At $185 INCLUDING smalled belts, they're the best priced source. Stock crank pulleys are about the same price WITHOUT the power gain. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which is the best deal.

There are two issues to consider when replacing the stock crank pulley with the Unorthodox Racing Pulley. One issue is the lower voltage generation by the Underdrive Pulley. I bought a volt meter that plugs into the cigarette lighter plug, and have been monitoring voltage levels. Even in stock form, the voltage is rather low at idle with high electrical loads(headlights, fans, defroster, etc). The alternator will spin even slower with the Underdrive pulley, and could be a problem at idle, as reported by the Impreza owners with the SAME Unorthodox pulley installed. Offseting the low generation with upgraded wires and perhaps an upgraded alternator would be great.

The other issue is installation. I want to do the installation myself to save money on labor, but I need a special tool to loosen and tight the pulley nut while keeping the crank pulley stationary. Subaru crank pulleys have four holes in them, where the four pins of that special tool are inserted. The tool doesn't seem to be available for purchase, and even if it was, I doubt it would be well priced. I wouldn't get it anyway because the Unorthodox Pulley doesn't have those four pin holes.

I asked for ideas on the Yahoo! SVX Club. One member made his own tool by drilling 4 holes in a piece of 2x4 wood, and inserting bolts that fit into the crank pulley pin holes. He then made a larger hole in the center that allowed you to stick the 22mm socket onto the pully bolt. He said it worked fine. This makeshift tool wouldn't work on the Unorthodox pulley though.

Another few members suggested that I use a plumbing tool. It's a pipe wrench with either a rubber chain or a STRONG strip of cloth that would wrap around the pulley and hold it stationary. If long enough, it would work on both the stock pulley and the Unorthodox Racing one, but only if the belts were removed. That's not a big deal, so I'm trying to find one of those pipe wrench tools that can fit around LARGE diameter pipes. The stock pulley is over 5.5 inches in diameter. I have been looking around for this tool, and haven't had much luck so far. Does anyone have a source for this tool?

That's the only thing holding me back from ordering the pulley. So as soon as I get the tool, I'll order the pulley and throw it in. Hopefully I'll get it in a week or two. Then I can report to you all about it's effects on performance and the electrical system.

Wish me luck!
Eric
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Old 02-16-2001, 03:37 AM   #12
blonde_man
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Talking

Well I FINALLY got the Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Crank Pulley from Teague's Auto! Unfortunately the price went up at the start of this year. I had to pay $225 plus $10 shipping. Also unless you're willing to wait, you might not be able to choose from all 4 available colors. Sometimes they run out of a certain color and have to send more out to get anodized.

I installed it Wednesday night! It was a tight fit, but eventually slid on after some sand paper and filing. The aluminum pulley is too soft to use a strap wrench, so the directions say to stick a tool(flat-bladed screwdriver) into the teeth of the torque converter to keep the crank from turning while the pulley bolt is torqued down. After that it was easy. I took it out for a couple test drives, with a volt meter plugged into the cigarette lighter outlet. I couldn't go too fast because of some THICK fog, but it seems to accelerate MUCH easier. Voltage at a stop with warm idle is kind of low(high 11's with head/brake lights on). Also the headlights would dim a little at a stop, and brighten back up as soon as i gunned it. So hopefully the alternator/battery cable upgrades will help out and get system voltage at least into the 12 volt range(minimum).

I weighed both pulleys and took pics comparing them. As listed, the stock one weighed in at around 5.5lbs as it crumbled away, and the shiny new silver one weighed only 1lb!! The shorter AC belt that I got, was barely tense even with the tensioner all the way out at the tightest setting. The other belt was the complete opposite, even with the tensioner as loose as possible it was still TIGHT to get on! So the belt selection should be a little different than the recommended ones.

Alright well so far I'm satisfied. I sure wish it wasn't foggy that night! I was dying to stomp on it!! Oh well patience. I did get it up to 60 on this STEEP hillclimb (5mph rolling start), and then later up to 70 on this short clear (of fog) section(WOT from a stop). I am very familiar with that road, and both times I hit those speeds earlier than usual. I'll be taking it to a drag strip as soon as they open up around here (few more weeks), and hopefully i'll have finally broken into the 15's! (best time for me so far is just over 16). As soon as I get those times, to see the performance effect of the pulley, I'll put in the ram air setup, and hopefully that'll help even more!

Stay tuned!
Eric
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Old 02-16-2001, 11:52 AM   #13
KEVINL
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Sounds like a lot of trouble for 5-7HP I'll stick with the turbo kit for mine.

Also I'll wait for you at the end of the track
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Old 02-16-2001, 01:53 PM   #14
phastSVX
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Myth: "With my intake and exhuast, my svx is making well over 250 hp"
Fact: the 230hp rated by subaru is NOT to the wheels...its measured with engine on a Dynometer. Which is 10x the amount of air you can get in wiht your intake filter. The fact of the matter is your NOT "MAKING" horsepower, your merely converting more power to the wheels. I dont care what you do, unless you used forced air(i.e. turbo/supercharger) you are not making horse power. A brand new SVX dyno's at the wheels on a 4 wheel dyno at 179hp and 175lb-ft of tourqe.(2 wheel dyno's are slightly more due to loss inthe transfer case, not much though. With my intake and exhuast, and now the new IRIS solenoid, im probably getting close to 199-204 to the wheels, which is considerably less loss then most automatics lose. Avg loss in an automatic transsmission is 27% loss from the driveshaft as compared t the wheels. Also wile im at it, Power mode does not "Add 30 hp"....it adds 30 lb-ft remember from physics class:
tourqe=
(perpenduciler lateral force)/(length force is applied)

Later all,
phast
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Old 02-17-2001, 10:13 AM   #15
blonde_man
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Question

Quote:
Sounds like a lot of trouble for 5-7HP!
It was no trouble at all really. I just had a pulley that was falling apart, which had to be replaced. I had two choices: to either get a stock SVX pulley from Subaru for about $200 which WILL fail again, or to get the Unorthodox Pulley for the same price and not have to worry about it failing, and even free up a little hp at the same time!

I just wanted to let SVXers know that they HAVE A CHOICE when it comes to replacing that crank pulley.

Quote:
I'll stick with the turbo kit for mine. Also I'll wait for you at the end of the track!
Go ahead, get your turbo. I'd hope you'd be waiting at the end of the track if you got one. This underdrive pulley was never meant to compete with a turbo but you probably won't be waiting as long as you would've had I not gotten the Unorthodox Racing Pulley! Also it's not fair comparing a turbo with a normally aspirated car, because you know the turbo will make more power. Though you can compare my normally aspirated SVX with another, to see how much of of a difference an intake/exhaust/pulley mod makes, because they are on a more level platform.

Why not get the pulley with your turbo kit? You'll probably reduce turbo lag, and get up to boost faster, because the engine is able to rev up sooner! Now tell me what's so bad about that??

Eric
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Old 02-17-2001, 11:00 AM   #16
blonde_man
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Quote:
Myth: "With my intake and exhuast, my svx is making well over 250 hp"
Fact: the 230hp rated by subaru is NOT to the wheels...its measured with engine on a Dynometer. A brand new SVX dyno's at the wheels on a 4 wheel dyno at 179hp and 175lb-ft of tourqe. With my intake and exhuast, and now the new IRIS solenoid, im probably getting close to 199-204

Good points and interesting perspectives. A lot of times, egos (and consciences justifying cost of upgrades) tend to inflate vehicle performance numbers. The underdrive pulley does NOT cause the engine to make more power. It just FREES UP power, that otherwise would've been used to keep the HEAVY STOCK PULLEY spinning, to instead help spin the tires. Also freeing up exhaust and intake restrictions (by putting in custom exhausts and intakes) often doesn't create much power at all, but it can MOVE the power band. Increasing backpressure gives you peak power sooner, and decreasing backpressure gives you peak power later. If you modify the power/torque band on the engine, you also should modify the gearing/shift points of the transmission, or you will not take advantage of the full benefits of your engine upgrades. If you cannot modify your transmission, you'd better only modify the engine to BEST match the transmission! Also when modifying your exhaust, you could relieve so much backpressure, that the peak power could be pushed beyond use way above redline, which would be highly counter productive.

How would modifying exhaust/intake change the amount of power the transmission and driveline absorbs? The only way to increase the power transfer efficiency of a transmission is to MODIFY the transmission! You can put in fluid that causes less driveline drag. You can modify/lighten the torque coverter. But modifying the engine will do nothing.

I am just wondering how you came up with those AWD dyno figures of the SVX? Do you have some documentation to back up those claims? If I remember correctly, Kinetic Concepts put their SVX on an AWD dyno and got around 140 hp at the wheels even with their intake and exhaust upgrades(search their website). Also I believe that a stock Impreza 2.5 RS (165hp claimed by SOA)only gets around 90hp at the wheels on an AWD dyno(source SCC Mag Proj. Impreza)!!!

So hopefully you're able to provide some documentation of your claims, whether they be dyno charts or 1/4mile time slips! I look forward to seeing some hard data from you soon!

Eric
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Old 02-17-2001, 11:58 AM   #17
phastSVX
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<>

Like i said....im using SOA Claims... Also if you went ahead and read in the journals.....you would see that he found out later that he had a faulty tourqe converter that was slipping....He had also tested his car on a 2 wheel dyno WAY TO MANY TIMES....this will loosen the bearings incredibly to the RWD clutch plate.....teh reason being that when you normally put in the front wheel drive fuse the rear differential is dragged by along as the car goes, if you put it on a 2wheel dyno then they obivously are not, and the bearing spin like crazy! Sluggish performance and Rw clutch plate failure(the first thing to usually go in a failing tranny in our car probably 70% of the time....other 30% is usually the reverse gear-set)
I never said that adding an exhuast and intake would help the transmission obsorb more power. Im sorry for not typing it all out and i guess you can attack me on that. I'm only 17 years old, and am learning as i go. With my expereince, the difference from stock to my exhasut and intake was a much faster rise in upper RPM's.,...when the car hits 4k it rising dramatically faster then before. Only problem is that our car is geard so cost effectivly (i tihnk the final drive is 3.5 somthing) that by the time the car gets up that high, the extra tourqe gained by the engine (yes, adding an exhuast and intake ADD tourqe, wiht the faster rev's) is way less dramatic then it could be if you put, say a 4.1 ratio that a legacy turbo has. All though then again we would be running at 60 on the highway at rmps somewhere around 3500 or 4000.....But i'd take it Again sorry blondeman, and thanks for correcting me. As i said im learning here, and im hoping that by the time im older and can aford my car i can have a complete understanding of engine/ driveline correlation.
later all,
phast
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Old 02-17-2001, 10:25 PM   #18
svxboy
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I have ridden in Phast's SVX, and believe me, Its quite a bit faster than stock. Goes to show how restrictive the factory exhaust and intake is in this car. Now Phil, if you would only do a tranny cooler and synthetic fluid flush. By the way Phil, I work at the Sun Prairie Checker now. Later, Greg
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Old 02-17-2001, 10:59 PM   #19
KEVINL
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And Want another STi

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I must admit If my crank pulley took a $hit I would probably just get a unorthdox Pulley but I Don't want to lose any power whatsoever and I live in AZ so I need my ac working at its peak potential. Sorry if I upset anyone but to "ME" the gains don't at all outweigh the losses.

Sorry
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Old 02-17-2001, 11:01 PM   #20
KEVINL
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And Want another STi

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I must admit If my crank pulley took a $hit I would probably just get a unorthdox Pulley but I Don't want to lose any power whatsoever and I live in AZ so I need my ac working at its peak potential. Sorry if I upset anyone but to "ME" the gains don't at all outweigh the losses.

Sorry
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Old 02-18-2001, 03:14 PM   #21
arejay
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Quote:
I'm only 17 years old, and am learning as i go.
It has nothing to do with age, buddy. We all are. You're doin' good. Keep it up.

RJ
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Old 02-18-2001, 06:36 PM   #22
Kevin Thomas
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1989 1989 XT6

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I don't have an SVX but an OBS. When I bought the pulley, it didn't feel like I had more power. The car did accelerate faster and it brought my 1/4 mile times down 3-4/10th's of a second. My trap speed went up between 2-3mph. It was well worth the purchase. If it can work on cars from V8's to 4 bangers, it should work great for your cars.

Eric, you probably will break into the 15's. When you run with your pulley, closely compare your time as well as your trap speed to your past runs. Most likely, you will see a difference. By the seat-of-the-pants, noticing extra 'power' is difficult. The extra 'gained' horsepower isn't like an intake or exhaust where hp jumps up at certain rpms. The power gain is across the board. If you took it to a dyno and notice 8-12hp gain, you'll see it from the start of the dynograph until redline.

Forget theories and logic. Try and see for yourself. It's just allowing your car to better use the horsepower it already has. It's a great product that usually works for 95% of the cars it gets put on. I love it to this day.

Unorthodox Racing still has my testimonial from my old website on their site. The testimonial was using my 'now stolen' G-Tech Pro. Here it is:

Subaru Outback (2.2L):

"My average runs before the pulley came out to 17.3@78.9 MPH. Then I changed my pulley and made four runs averaging 16.9@82.15 MPH. Did you hear me? I shaved almost 1/2 second off my time just changing my pulley!"

Kevin


The quote was taken off my old site and I just noticed it on theirs one day. I can't complain. It's the truth. L8Rs




[This message has been edited by Kevin Thomas (edited February 18, 2001).]
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