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Old 06-28-2003, 10:03 PM   #1
Elliot
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2000 2.5RS-T
Titanium silver

Default Ok, it look like #4 passed out

So to keep the story short it looks like my engine is dead!!!
I have a nasty ticking sound near #4. I pulled out the plugs and guest what? #4 plug had no gap at all . Looks like something hit the plug inside the chamber!!!
Just for the record
There is no white or blue smoke ( or any type of smoke coming out of my tail pipe)
Car runs and moves but feels a bit weak
No oil over the engine
Plenty of oil in the oil pan

Can this be something relate to the valves?

Any way my real question is
Should I get a new 2.5 NA or a 2.0WRS engine for a swap?
what would be the price for each path?
Those people with experience please advice!!!

thanks
Elliot
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Old 06-28-2003, 10:31 PM   #2
EJ25
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You'll find that part of the #4 crown is gone, usually on the upper right... voice of experience
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Old 06-28-2003, 10:32 PM   #3
Shinji N
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damn, condolences
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Old 06-28-2003, 10:34 PM   #4
8Complex

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Ticking noise? Perhaps you need to do a compression test first off to see how bad it all is.

If you get the chance, look at the exhaust wheel of your turbo and see if there is any damage... that is where shrapnel from blowing pistons & rings end up in the end.

A word of experience... if you can find a borescope, you're golden to figuring out what is up in there, otherwise you won't be able to tell without really straining yourself to see or opening up the block.
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Old 06-29-2003, 03:50 PM   #5
Unsung Boxer
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if your plug is missing the end of it, you wont be firing is cylinder 4.. which accounts for your loss of power.

If the end of it managed to fall in the head, it could cause a valve to bind up, or it could have fallen into the combustion chamber and be caught there. Since there is no smoke, no oil is making it past the rings or the valve stem seals. So rings and part of the valve is in tact. Still could be a bent valve though. I wouldnt plan on scrapping the motor. Here is the route i would take:


1. Replace the plug, pull the turbo and up pipe and try to find that crown. Make sure its not caught in there.

2. Get a compression test and a leak down test done so you can determine if you are losing pressure.

3. Have a professional shop diagnose it. Expect to pay about 1-2 hours diagnosing.

4. If it is head work, pull the head yourself and bring it to a shop to get the valve replaced. If it is block work... well, that is another story.

Let us know how it goes. I am apprentice mechanic, so if i dont know the answer already, i have plenty of people i can ask to help you.

-Jake
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Old 06-29-2003, 03:53 PM   #6
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...
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Old 06-30-2003, 09:32 AM   #7
Elliot
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I performed a compresion test yesterday.

#4 and #2 have around 150psi
the diference between 2,4 and 1,3 is less that 8% so it look like the rings are ok.
My mayor concern is to find damage to the block that will lead to a new block or to bore the current one!!!

Kaos, you have a build engine. I'll install Je pistons 8.5:1 but I need to know more about this setup. I want around 230WHP. What else I need? engine management?


Elliot
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Old 06-30-2003, 02:18 PM   #8
EJ25
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>> My mayor concern is to find damage to the block that will lead to a new block or to bore the current one!!!

Usually the cylinder wall doesnt get damaged unless you pushed it hard. Your valves will prolly have aluminum deposits on them which will need to be polished off...

Wiseco or J&E pistons?? I'd like to get some Wiseco.

Here is another company that has some good looking pistons:

http://www.techworkseng.com
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Old 06-30-2003, 02:39 PM   #9
Wedge
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FYI.
Just got off the phone with Wiseco....they do not carry 'off the shelf' replacements for our cars.

So it's either JEs or Rollerwaves for me.
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Old 06-30-2003, 06:07 PM   #10
Elliot
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just place the order for je pistons but to push more than 10 psi do I need cams?
Elliot
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Old 06-30-2003, 07:32 PM   #11
Wedge
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Yeah, so did I too!
Got em @ wholesale $$ too.

Cams will just let your engine breath better. But it's not like you 'need' them over 10psi.
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Old 06-30-2003, 08:39 PM   #12
DoctorNick
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What pistons did you get compression wise (if that makes sence)
8.2:1
8.5:1
9:1
10:1

What bore did you get on them. 100?
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Old 06-30-2003, 11:30 PM   #13
WRX 555 STi
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Just a reminder...

Cylinder #4 - weakest link, weakest point on cylinder wall.

Car will been down for 4 months on July 1st. It will be fixed next week, as I am awaiting for a 27k mile used 01 rs engine. Since the heads are bad, it costs about the same to get new heads and put the valves in there as I would buy this engine. After I got disappointed at what I got sent to me from junkyards (heads), I really think this is worth it. The picture is not detonation, only headgasket went out, car was going on 3 cyl's for 5 miles, and fully overheated. I have JE pistons on order, Pauter rods, Total Seal rings, ARP rod bolts and an engine to be built up. Putting the used engine back in the car while I await for my build-up to be on "active" status until i get allparts in.

NEAL: I know I owe you man, i just work late and can't make it to the meets anymore . I will make time for it though or senD you a check in the mail.

~Anthony.
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Old 07-01-2003, 12:59 AM   #14
kaos200
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elliot

Kaos, you have a build engine. I'll install Je pistons 8.5:1 but I need to know more about this setup. I want around 230WHP. What else I need? engine management?


Elliot
Quote:
Originally posted by Elliot
just place the order for je pistons but to push more than 10 psi do I need cams?
Elliot

You called?
I had a built engine. I miss it so (sold)
What do you want to know about the setup? 230whp isnt hard on the engine at all. However Id say its worth it to install aftermarket rods at the same time, O-ring the block, and just reinstall the RS heads, and if money is coming out of your wallet more easily than mine , some nice turbo cams would make power alot easier.


a nice mild setup would be
stock block bored and honed 100mm bore
9:1 pistons
Pauter Rods (make sure you get the STOCK SPEC rods, they have one slightly off size for a custom setup that some local company had them make. So they think that those sizes were stock (WRONG)
O-ring (not necessary, recommended for 15psi up
Mild Turbo cams (so you can actually breathe with those heads)

Last edited by kaos200; 07-01-2003 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 07-01-2003, 10:00 AM   #15
Pat L.I.
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WRX 555 STi, Elliot how much boost were you guys running?
Pat
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Old 07-01-2003, 01:40 PM   #16
Elliot
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I was running 5psi, but it looks like my brother change the fuel settings and had a bad fuel tank!!

Elliot
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Old 07-01-2003, 08:25 PM   #17
WRX 555 STi
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I'd say ~6psi. Don't really know.

~Anthony.
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Old 07-01-2003, 09:04 PM   #18
cpu77
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Where any of you guys running any engine management?
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Old 07-03-2003, 02:26 PM   #19
Elliot
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Well actually the engine failure was not related to engine management. It was related to poor understanding of my brother, when he changed the fuel settings!!!! In Puerto Rico Mariano is running at 11psi daily with ITC and SAFC and the car pulls hard!!

Elliot
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Old 07-03-2003, 06:31 PM   #20
cpu77
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I see no worries wan't going to turn it in to a should of used engine management I told you so things Just wondered if you had it.
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Old 07-03-2003, 07:14 PM   #21
WRX 555 STi
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Link + here.

~Anthony.
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Old 07-04-2003, 01:39 PM   #22
Elliot
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Kaos,
Can you explain a bit more about your set up.
like injectors size, engine management settings, fuel delivery and power ( dyno graph).
what about cams or working on the heads? It looks like a lot people dont think it is needed for 230WHP. I use my car for SOLO 1 so 230WHP is enough to kick some ass!!

What about the WOLF 3D? I know a guy here that can make that install in my car and tuned it.

Elliot

Last edited by Elliot; 07-04-2003 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 07-04-2003, 02:18 PM   #23
Unsung Boxer
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Ok, we are getting way off of this guys origional question.

Elliot. I asked a few guys at my work. They dont feel like your engine shoudl be scrapped at all. If the crown of the plug just popped off. it is likely still in there. It could even be stuck holding a valve open. But if you passed a compression test, that means the valves are closing and hte rings are in tact. If that little piece of metal is in there you can certainly fish it out. Get a telescoping magnet or some sort of magnent and throw it in the spark plug hole and fish that bastard out. Since the head flow downward, it might be easy to pull the header off and fish it out through there if it got into the head.

There is no reason why this would have damaged ur motor enough to toss it. I wouldnt even think about new pistons at this point, you already proved w/ compression test that they are fine.

Now stop worrying so much... stop thinking about JE pistons and new blocks and get to work!

-Jake

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Old 07-04-2003, 03:11 PM   #24
8Complex

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Quote:
Originally posted by Unsung Boxer
There is no reason why this would have damaged ur motor enough to toss it. I wouldnt even think about new pistons at this point, you already proved w/ compression test that they are fine.

Now stop worrying so much... stop thinking about JE pistons and new blocks and get to work!
You should see what happens when you leave random metal in the combustion chamber while running the motor... it all of a sudden becomes like one of those popper toys that kids have (the one you push around and the balls all pop up in the clear dome). If it's a hard metal, it will have gotten sandwiched between the piston and head a few times, maybe caught under the valve, and left indentations on everywhere it was pinched in there.
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Old 07-04-2003, 03:34 PM   #25
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yeah, but if the rings and valves are still in tact, it didnt likely hurt much.

Have you ever seen inside the combustion chamber? it is so nasty and filthy anyways, a few nicks and dents are not gonna effect much... if anything it would slightly lower compression... but since he already ran a compression test that showed even compression comparing 1 and 4, it shows no major damage has been done.

Stuff like that is not gonna hurt ur motor so much. You peeps worry way to much.

BTW, i think it is totally unrelated that someone posted a pic of their headgasket blowing. This is totally different.
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