Ok, it look like #4 passed out

Elliot · 06-28-2003, 09:03 PM

So to keep the story short it looks like my engine is dead!!!
I have a nasty ticking sound near #4. I pulled out the plugs and guest what? #4 plug had no gap at all . Looks like something hit the plug inside the chamber!!!

Just for the record
There is no white or blue smoke ( or any type of smoke coming out of my tail pipe)
Car runs and moves but feels a bit weak
No oil over the engine
Plenty of oil in the oil pan

Can this be something relate to the valves?

Any way my real question is
Should I get a new 2.5 NA or a 2.0WRS engine for a swap?
what would be the price for each path?
Those people with experience please advice!!!

thanks
Elliot

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

EJ25 · 06-28-2003, 09:31 PM

You'll find that part of the #4 crown is gone, usually on the upper right... voice of experience

Shinji N · 06-28-2003, 09:32 PM

damn, condolences

8Complex · 06-28-2003, 09:34 PM

Ticking noise? Perhaps you need to do a compression test first off to see how bad it all is.

If you get the chance, look at the exhaust wheel of your turbo and see if there is any damage... that is where shrapnel from blowing pistons & rings end up in the end.

A word of experience... if you can find a borescope, you're golden to figuring out what is up in there, otherwise you won't be able to tell without really straining yourself to see or opening up the block.

Unsung Boxer · 06-29-2003, 02:50 PM

if your plug is missing the end of it, you wont be firing is cylinder 4.. which accounts for your loss of power.

If the end of it managed to fall in the head, it could cause a valve to bind up, or it could have fallen into the combustion chamber and be caught there. Since there is no smoke, no oil is making it past the rings or the valve stem seals. So rings and part of the valve is in tact. Still could be a bent valve though. I wouldnt plan on scrapping the motor. Here is the route i would take:

1. Replace the plug, pull the turbo and up pipe and try to find that crown. Make sure its not caught in there.

2. Get a compression test and a leak down test done so you can determine if you are losing pressure.

3. Have a professional shop diagnose it. Expect to pay about 1-2 hours diagnosing.

4. If it is head work, pull the head yourself and bring it to a shop to get the valve replaced. If it is block work... well, that is another story.

Let us know how it goes. I am apprentice mechanic, so if i dont know the answer already, i have plenty of people i can ask to help you.

-Jake

Unsung Boxer · 06-29-2003, 02:53 PM

...

Elliot · 06-30-2003, 08:32 AM

I performed a compresion test yesterday.

#4 and #2 have around 150psi
the diference between 2,4 and 1,3 is less that 8% so it look like the rings are ok.
My mayor concern is to find damage to the block that will lead to a new block or to bore the current one!!!

Kaos, you have a build engine. I'll install Je pistons 8.5:1 but I need to know more about this setup. I want around 230WHP. What else I need? engine management?

Elliot

EJ25 · 06-30-2003, 01:18 PM

>> My mayor concern is to find damage to the block that will lead to a new block or to bore the current one!!!

Usually the cylinder wall doesnt get damaged unless you pushed it hard. Your valves will prolly have aluminum deposits on them which will need to be polished off...

Wiseco or J&E pistons?? I'd like to get some Wiseco.

Here is another company that has some good looking pistons:

http://www.techworkseng.com

Wedge · 06-30-2003, 01:39 PM

FYI.
Just got off the phone with Wiseco....they do not carry 'off the shelf' replacements for our cars.

So it's either JEs or Rollerwaves for me.

Elliot · 06-30-2003, 05:07 PM

just place the order for je pistons but to push more than 10 psi do I need cams?
Elliot

Wedge · 06-30-2003, 06:32 PM

Yeah, so did I too!

Got em @ wholesale $$ too.

Cams will just let your engine breath better. But it's not like you 'need' them over 10psi.

DoctorNick · 06-30-2003, 07:39 PM

What pistons did you get compression wise (if that makes sence)
8.2:1
8.5:1
9:1
10:1

What bore did you get on them. 100?

WRX 555 STi · 06-30-2003, 10:30 PM

Just a reminder...

Cylinder #4 - weakest link, weakest point on cylinder wall.

Car will been down for 4 months on July 1st. It will be fixed next week, as I am awaiting for a 27k mile used 01 rs engine. Since the heads are bad, it costs about the same to get new heads and put the valves in there as I would buy this engine. After I got disappointed at what I got sent to me from junkyards (heads), I really think this is worth it. The picture is not detonation, only headgasket went out, car was going on 3 cyl's for 5 miles, and fully overheated. I have JE pistons on order, Pauter rods, Total Seal rings, ARP rod bolts and an engine to be built up. Putting the used engine back in the car while I await for my build-up to be on "active" status until i get allparts in.

NEAL: I know I owe you man, i just work late and can't make it to the meets anymore

. I will make time for it though or senD you a check in the mail.

~Anthony.

kaos200 · 06-30-2003, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elliot

Kaos, you have a build engine. I'll install Je pistons 8.5:1 but I need to know more about this setup. I want around 230WHP. What else I need? engine management?

Elliot

Quote:

Originally posted by Elliot
just place the order for je pistons but to push more than 10 psi do I need cams?
Elliot

You called?

I had a built engine. I miss it so

(sold)
What do you want to know about the setup? 230whp isnt hard on the engine at all. However Id say its worth it to install aftermarket rods at the same time, O-ring the block, and just reinstall the RS heads, and if money is coming out of your wallet more easily than mine

, some nice turbo cams would make power alot easier.

a nice mild setup would be
stock block bored and honed 100mm bore
9:1 pistons
Pauter Rods (make sure you get the STOCK SPEC rods, they have one slightly off size for a custom setup that some local company had them make. So they think that those sizes were stock (WRONG)
O-ring (not necessary, recommended for 15psi up
Mild Turbo cams (so you can actually breathe with those heads)

Pat L.I. · 07-01-2003, 09:00 AM

WRX 555 STi, Elliot how much boost were you guys running?
Pat

Elliot · 07-01-2003, 12:40 PM

I was running 5psi, but it looks like my brother change the fuel settings and had a bad fuel tank!!

Elliot

WRX 555 STi · 07-01-2003, 07:25 PM

I'd say ~6psi. Don't really know.

~Anthony.

cpu77 · 07-01-2003, 08:04 PM

Where any of you guys running any engine management?

Elliot · 07-03-2003, 01:26 PM

Well actually the engine failure was not related to engine management. It was related to poor understanding of my brother, when he changed the fuel settings!!!! In Puerto Rico Mariano is running at 11psi daily with ITC and SAFC and the car pulls hard!!

Elliot

cpu77 · 07-03-2003, 05:31 PM

I see no worries wan't going to turn it in to a should of used engine management I told you so things

Just wondered if you had it.

WRX 555 STi · 07-03-2003, 06:14 PM

Link + here.

~Anthony.

Elliot · 07-04-2003, 12:39 PM

Kaos,
Can you explain a bit more about your set up.
like injectors size, engine management settings, fuel delivery and power ( dyno graph).
what about cams or working on the heads? It looks like a lot people dont think it is needed for 230WHP. I use my car for SOLO 1 so 230WHP is enough to kick some ass!!

What about the WOLF 3D? I know a guy here that can make that install in my car and tuned it.

Elliot

Unsung Boxer · 07-04-2003, 01:18 PM

Ok, we are getting way off of this guys origional question.

Elliot. I asked a few guys at my work. They dont feel like your engine shoudl be scrapped at all. If the crown of the plug just popped off. it is likely still in there. It could even be stuck holding a valve open. But if you passed a compression test, that means the valves are closing and hte rings are in tact. If that little piece of metal is in there you can certainly fish it out. Get a telescoping magnet or some sort of magnent and throw it in the spark plug hole and fish that bastard out. Since the head flow downward, it might be easy to pull the header off and fish it out through there if it got into the head.

There is no reason why this would have damaged ur motor enough to toss it. I wouldnt even think about new pistons at this point, you already proved w/ compression test that they are fine.

Now stop worrying so much... stop thinking about JE pistons and new blocks and get to work!

-Jake

EMAIL me or IM me if u got questions:
AIM: Unsung Boxer
Email: UnsungBoxer@hotmail.com

8Complex · 07-04-2003, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unsung Boxer
There is no reason why this would have damaged ur motor enough to toss it. I wouldnt even think about new pistons at this point, you already proved w/ compression test that they are fine.

Now stop worrying so much... stop thinking about JE pistons and new blocks and get to work!

You should see what happens when you leave random metal in the combustion chamber while running the motor... it all of a sudden becomes like one of those popper toys that kids have (the one you push around and the balls all pop up in the clear dome). If it's a hard metal, it will have gotten sandwiched between the piston and head a few times, maybe caught under the valve, and left indentations on everywhere it was pinched in there.

Unsung Boxer · 07-04-2003, 02:34 PM

yeah, but if the rings and valves are still in tact, it didnt likely hurt much.

Have you ever seen inside the combustion chamber? it is so nasty and filthy anyways, a few nicks and dents are not gonna effect much... if anything it would slightly lower compression... but since he already ran a compression test that showed even compression comparing 1 and 4, it shows no major damage has been done.

Stuff like that is not gonna hurt ur motor so much. You peeps worry way to much.

BTW, i think it is totally unrelated that someone posted a pic of their headgasket blowing. This is totally different.

06-28-2003, 09:03 PM	#1
Elliot Scooby Specialist Member#: 12732 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dorado Puerto Rico Vehicle: 2000 2.5RS-T Titanium silver	Ok, it look like #4 passed out So to keep the story short it looks like my engine is dead!!! I have a nasty ticking sound near #4. I pulled out the plugs and guest what? #4 plug had no gap at all . Looks like something hit the plug inside the chamber!!! Just for the record There is no white or blue smoke ( or any type of smoke coming out of my tail pipe) Car runs and moves but feels a bit weak No oil over the engine Plenty of oil in the oil pan Can this be something relate to the valves? Any way my real question is Should I get a new 2.5 NA or a 2.0WRS engine for a swap? what would be the price for each path? Those people with experience please advice!!! thanks Elliot * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

07-04-2003, 12:39 PM	#22
Elliot Scooby Specialist Member#: 12732 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dorado Puerto Rico Vehicle: 2000 2.5RS-T Titanium silver	Kaos, Can you explain a bit more about your set up. like injectors size, engine management settings, fuel delivery and power ( dyno graph). what about cams or working on the heads? It looks like a lot people dont think it is needed for 230WHP. I use my car for SOLO 1 so 230WHP is enough to kick some ass!! What about the WOLF 3D? I know a guy here that can make that install in my car and tuned it. Elliot Last edited by Elliot; 07-04-2003 at 12:49 PM.

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06-28-2003, 09:31 PM	#2
EJ25 Scooby Newbie Member#: 10768 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada... bent and broken 2000RS Rally	You'll find that part of the #4 crown is gone, usually on the upper right... voice of experience

06-28-2003, 09:32 PM	#3
Shinji N Scooby Specialist Member#: 3987 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Los Angeles, CA Vehicle: 1999 Miata Black	damn, condolences

06-28-2003, 09:34 PM	#4
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Ticking noise? Perhaps you need to do a compression test first off to see how bad it all is. If you get the chance, look at the exhaust wheel of your turbo and see if there is any damage... that is where shrapnel from blowing pistons & rings end up in the end. A word of experience... if you can find a borescope, you're golden to figuring out what is up in there, otherwise you won't be able to tell without really straining yourself to see or opening up the block.

06-29-2003, 02:50 PM	#5
Unsung Boxer Scooby Specialist Member#: 37196 Join Date: May 2003 Location: WA state	if your plug is missing the end of it, you wont be firing is cylinder 4.. which accounts for your loss of power. If the end of it managed to fall in the head, it could cause a valve to bind up, or it could have fallen into the combustion chamber and be caught there. Since there is no smoke, no oil is making it past the rings or the valve stem seals. So rings and part of the valve is in tact. Still could be a bent valve though. I wouldnt plan on scrapping the motor. Here is the route i would take: 1. Replace the plug, pull the turbo and up pipe and try to find that crown. Make sure its not caught in there. 2. Get a compression test and a leak down test done so you can determine if you are losing pressure. 3. Have a professional shop diagnose it. Expect to pay about 1-2 hours diagnosing. 4. If it is head work, pull the head yourself and bring it to a shop to get the valve replaced. If it is block work... well, that is another story. Let us know how it goes. I am apprentice mechanic, so if i dont know the answer already, i have plenty of people i can ask to help you. -Jake

06-29-2003, 02:53 PM	#6
Unsung Boxer Scooby Specialist Member#: 37196 Join Date: May 2003 Location: WA state	...

06-30-2003, 08:32 AM	#7
Elliot Scooby Specialist Member#: 12732 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dorado Puerto Rico Vehicle: 2000 2.5RS-T Titanium silver	I performed a compresion test yesterday. #4 and #2 have around 150psi the diference between 2,4 and 1,3 is less that 8% so it look like the rings are ok. My mayor concern is to find damage to the block that will lead to a new block or to bore the current one!!! Kaos, you have a build engine. I'll install Je pistons 8.5:1 but I need to know more about this setup. I want around 230WHP. What else I need? engine management? Elliot

06-30-2003, 01:18 PM	#8
EJ25 Scooby Newbie Member#: 10768 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada... bent and broken 2000RS Rally	>> My mayor concern is to find damage to the block that will lead to a new block or to bore the current one!!! Usually the cylinder wall doesnt get damaged unless you pushed it hard. Your valves will prolly have aluminum deposits on them which will need to be polished off... Wiseco or J&E pistons?? I'd like to get some Wiseco. Here is another company that has some good looking pistons: http://www.techworkseng.com

06-30-2003, 01:39 PM	#9
Wedge Scooby Specialist Member#: 2279 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: South East Location: The MIA Vehicle: 2000 Slingshot/99RS Pastelito Racing / SFSOC	FYI. Just got off the phone with Wiseco....they do not carry 'off the shelf' replacements for our cars. So it's either JEs or Rollerwaves for me.

06-30-2003, 05:07 PM	#10
Elliot Scooby Specialist Member#: 12732 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dorado Puerto Rico Vehicle: 2000 2.5RS-T Titanium silver	just place the order for je pistons but to push more than 10 psi do I need cams? Elliot

06-30-2003, 06:32 PM	#11
Wedge Scooby Specialist Member#: 2279 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: South East Location: The MIA Vehicle: 2000 Slingshot/99RS Pastelito Racing / SFSOC	Yeah, so did I too! Got em @ wholesale $$ too. Cams will just let your engine breath better. But it's not like you 'need' them over 10psi.

06-30-2003, 07:39 PM	#12
DoctorNick NASIOC Supporter Member#: 7022 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago, Il. Vehicle: 2013 BRZ Limited SWP	What pistons did you get compression wise (if that makes sence) 8.2:1 8.5:1 9:1 10:1 What bore did you get on them. 100?

06-30-2003, 10:30 PM	#13
WRX 555 STi Scooby Specialist Member#: 8042 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Elmwood Park, IL Vehicle: MY00 WRS - '04 WRX 2002 Dragon slayer :)	Just a reminder... Cylinder #4 - weakest link, weakest point on cylinder wall. Car will been down for 4 months on July 1st. It will be fixed next week, as I am awaiting for a 27k mile used 01 rs engine. Since the heads are bad, it costs about the same to get new heads and put the valves in there as I would buy this engine. After I got disappointed at what I got sent to me from junkyards (heads), I really think this is worth it. The picture is not detonation, only headgasket went out, car was going on 3 cyl's for 5 miles, and fully overheated. I have JE pistons on order, Pauter rods, Total Seal rings, ARP rod bolts and an engine to be built up. Putting the used engine back in the car while I await for my build-up to be on "active" status until i get allparts in. NEAL: I know I owe you man, i just work late and can't make it to the meets anymore . I will make time for it though or senD you a check in the mail. ~Anthony.

07-01-2003, 09:00 AM	#15
Pat L.I. Scooby Specialist Member#: 20498 Join Date: Jun 2002 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: West Haven CT Vehicle: 2006 WRX TR Aspen White	WRX 555 STi, Elliot how much boost were you guys running? Pat

07-01-2003, 12:40 PM	#16
Elliot Scooby Specialist Member#: 12732 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dorado Puerto Rico Vehicle: 2000 2.5RS-T Titanium silver	I was running 5psi, but it looks like my brother change the fuel settings and had a bad fuel tank!! Elliot

07-01-2003, 07:25 PM	#17
WRX 555 STi Scooby Specialist Member#: 8042 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Elmwood Park, IL Vehicle: MY00 WRS - '04 WRX 2002 Dragon slayer :)	I'd say ~6psi. Don't really know. ~Anthony.

07-01-2003, 08:04 PM	#18
cpu77 Scooby Newbie Member#: 12631 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Vehicle: 2000 RS-T 9psi! BRP	Where any of you guys running any engine management?

07-03-2003, 01:26 PM	#19
Elliot Scooby Specialist Member#: 12732 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dorado Puerto Rico Vehicle: 2000 2.5RS-T Titanium silver	Well actually the engine failure was not related to engine management. It was related to poor understanding of my brother, when he changed the fuel settings!!!! In Puerto Rico Mariano is running at 11psi daily with ITC and SAFC and the car pulls hard!! Elliot

07-03-2003, 05:31 PM	#20
cpu77 Scooby Newbie Member#: 12631 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Vehicle: 2000 RS-T 9psi! BRP	I see no worries wan't going to turn it in to a should of used engine management I told you so things Just wondered if you had it.

07-03-2003, 06:14 PM	#21
WRX 555 STi Scooby Specialist Member#: 8042 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Elmwood Park, IL Vehicle: MY00 WRS - '04 WRX 2002 Dragon slayer :)	Link + here. ~Anthony.

07-04-2003, 01:18 PM	#23
Unsung Boxer Scooby Specialist Member#: 37196 Join Date: May 2003 Location: WA state	Ok, we are getting way off of this guys origional question. Elliot. I asked a few guys at my work. They dont feel like your engine shoudl be scrapped at all. If the crown of the plug just popped off. it is likely still in there. It could even be stuck holding a valve open. But if you passed a compression test, that means the valves are closing and hte rings are in tact. If that little piece of metal is in there you can certainly fish it out. Get a telescoping magnet or some sort of magnent and throw it in the spark plug hole and fish that bastard out. Since the head flow downward, it might be easy to pull the header off and fish it out through there if it got into the head. There is no reason why this would have damaged ur motor enough to toss it. I wouldnt even think about new pistons at this point, you already proved w/ compression test that they are fine. Now stop worrying so much... stop thinking about JE pistons and new blocks and get to work! -Jake EMAIL me or IM me if u got questions: AIM: Unsung Boxer Email: UnsungBoxer@hotmail.com

07-04-2003, 02:34 PM	#25
Unsung Boxer Scooby Specialist Member#: 37196 Join Date: May 2003 Location: WA state	yeah, but if the rings and valves are still in tact, it didnt likely hurt much. Have you ever seen inside the combustion chamber? it is so nasty and filthy anyways, a few nicks and dents are not gonna effect much... if anything it would slightly lower compression... but since he already ran a compression test that showed even compression comparing 1 and 4, it shows no major damage has been done. Stuff like that is not gonna hurt ur motor so much. You peeps worry way to much. BTW, i think it is totally unrelated that someone posted a pic of their headgasket blowing. This is totally different.