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Old 07-01-2003, 09:25 PM   #1
Heather
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Question After new tires when letting go of the wheel the car follows the angle of the road

After we put on the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires and the Whiteline Anti-Lift-Kit on our Legacy and had an alignment the car will now follow the path of the road. If the road slants off to the right an we let go of the steering wheel the car will quickly go off to the right, same with the left side on a left sloping road. Is this due to wheel alignment or the ALK or the tires.

Is this normal or what? Any thoughts?
Heather
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Old 07-01-2003, 09:28 PM   #2
Heather
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Post the WRX too

Please note my WRX has the same ALK and the same tires and will also veer off the way the road goes but much less then the Legacy. It veers off slowly but it does follow the angle of the road as well. This seems to have happened right after the ALK and the alignment. Yes we got a good alignement with zero toe all around and -1 front camber and -.7 rear camber. Caster after the ALK was changed from 2.6 to 3.1 on the Legacy and from 2.8 to 4.2 on the WRX.

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Old 07-01-2003, 10:23 PM   #3
Dr Ken
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So, the Legacy trends downhill...? I've always though this was normal. I gather the "crowning" the road is for the water run off, and debris as well as sleeping drivers to trend to the outside, away from oncoming trafic. Interesting to note variation between your destinct cars of similar tires.
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Old 07-02-2003, 12:27 AM   #4
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Default Same experience

I have had a similar experience with my sedan. I put on 18's with yoko ES100s. I usually get "tracking" through the "worn" sections of the road. I believe it has to do with the dirtectional pattern of my tires grabbing the road.
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Old 07-02-2003, 01:32 AM   #5
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I'm no expert, but I believe what you're experiencing is called tramlining and is common when you put on higher performance tires. From what I understand, the grippier rubber is simply sticking more tightly to the road, thus your car's tracking. Did you put on 225 width tires too? If you did, the increased width would of course heighten the effect. Playing with tire pressures is probably the best way to lessen the amount of tramlining, but I'll let others chime in on that.

It certainly doesn't sound like an alignment issue as the car is not pulling consistently to one side.
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Old 07-02-2003, 05:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: After new tires when letting go of the wheel the car follows the angle of the road

Quote:
Originally posted by Heather
After we put on the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires and the Whiteline Anti-Lift-Kit on our Legacy and had an alignment the car will now follow the path of the road. If the road slants off to the right an we let go of the steering wheel the car will quickly go off to the right, same with the left side on a left sloping road. Is this due to wheel alignment or the ALK or the tires.

Is this normal or what? Any thoughts?
Heather
Probably a combination of the tires & ALK (which does affect the alignment). It's normal.

-Steve
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Old 07-02-2003, 05:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by dunny
I'm no expert, but I believe what you're experiencing is called tramlining and is common when you put on higher performance tires. From what I understand, the grippier rubber is simply sticking more tightly to the road, thus your car's tracking. Did you put on 225 width tires too? If you did, the increased width would of course heighten the effect. Playing with tire pressures is probably the best way to lessen the amount of tramlining, but I'll let others chime in on that.

It certainly doesn't sound like an alignment issue as the car is not pulling consistently to one side.
Tramlining is actually caused by a tendancy for certain tread designs to follow the grooves in roads (concrete finish lines, grooves from wear, etc.). Tramlining is typically (but not always) on wider tires. Bridgestone S-03's are notorius for this tendancy. FWIW - My 225-width Falken Azenis don't tramline at all. (but they are darned noisy!)

Alignment could certainly cause issues other than pulling to one particular side. More aggressive camber and/or toe settings can make the car feel more "darty" (put another way - less stable) .

-Steve
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Old 07-02-2003, 07:06 PM   #8
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Heather, are you describing tramlining or something different?
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Old 07-02-2003, 08:03 PM   #9
Heather
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Exclamation humm...

Odd I have to subscribe to my own thread to see it now, never had to before- Is from being a Specialist as of yesterday? Odd!

I just now saw the 7 replies. Yes it is trambling- the car will follow the angle of the road- if the road slopes to the right (as most roads do) she will go off to the right fast. My WRX has the exact same Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 205/55/16 tires as my Legacy, both of which are wider then the average for their size at 8.6 inches. I did not want the 225/50/16 due to there weighing 2 pounds more per tire. They both have 16 x 6.5 stock rims as well. But my WRX trambles much less. She will follow the slope of the road but will go off very slowly after I let go of the wheel, wheras the Legacy goes off quickly to the right- she almost darts off the road if I let go of the wheel, but there is no pulling of the steering wheel feel at all. If the road goes left, she goes left as well.

I have to admit that my WRX will now follow potholes and cracks in the road with her tires after the ALK that she never did before the ALK with the same Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires. And I think the ALK is causing the trambling effects in the Legacy, but we got the tires after the ALK in her and I got the tires before the ALK in the WRX, so it's hard to say.

I do think it's normal but will have the alignment checked again just incase. It is free since we paid for it 30 days ago and we can have it rechecked so no problem. Odd with the same tires my WRX barely trambles and my husband's GT wagon really trambles! I keep 35/30 air pressure in the WRX and he keeps 33/31 in his Legacy. The only variable that is different.

Good point about sleeping driver's never thought of that one! Makes a lot of sense though
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Old 07-02-2003, 08:09 PM   #10
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Ever Since I have gotten my Nokian NRV tires. They follow every single little rut/crack in the road so I have to pay attention all the time.

The more grip the tires have, the more willing they will follow imperfections on the road, hence grippy tires can be "darty"

FYI, I have no other suspension mods.

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Old 07-02-2003, 09:00 PM   #11
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Congrats on your new promotion, specialist
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Old 07-02-2003, 09:40 PM   #12
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I'm not intending to be funny here, but I believe you are experiencing gravity...If car is aligned correctly, and we remove small variables like toe, your car should track straight and true on a flat surface (if it is indeed flat and devoid of grooves which may not run parallel to the direction of the road)...and if the road cambers to the right( ie, you are in the right lane of a road whose crown is to the left and slopes to the right) the car will go right just like water. As an experiment, set a little red wagon on a sloped piece of pavement ( to the left or right obviously),staighten the steering rack and give her a push....without input from a child to correct it the wagon will follow the slope. I'm not a NASCAR fan but I'm sure those guys know what I'm getting at here...Summary...Quite normal I assure you....gravity. Regards, BriDrive
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Old 07-03-2003, 02:53 AM   #13
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Tip: Try increasing the tire pressure

My old 17's with Khumo 712's had a horrible problem with this if i'd run anywhere bellow like 37psi. If I kept it close to 40psi, the problem went pretty much away. You didnt mention what psi you were at right now, so I cant tell if its an issue.

Also, you could look into eurathane steering rack bushings. Those help a ton with steering responce and feel (and work on legacies too)
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Old 07-03-2003, 09:59 AM   #14
Heather
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Cool Re: humm...

Quote:
Originally posted by Heather
I do think it's normal but will have the alignment checked again just incase. It is free since we paid for it 30 days ago and we can have it rechecked so no problem. Odd with the same tires my WRX barely trambles and my husband's GT wagon really trambles! I keep 35/30 air pressure in the WRX and he keeps 33/31 in his Legacy. The only variable that is different.
I did mention my PSI in both cars afew posts ago. My husband will in no way vary above 1 pound per tire of air pressure ever. He is a by-the-book kind of guy He always comments on my 35 PSI in the front of my WRX stateing that I will destroy my tires. I even checked them a few times and found he let the air out! He hates a rough ride and thinks my tires will wearout fast at 35psi so in no way will he change his tire pressure, unless I sneak it in there
Heather
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Old 07-04-2003, 02:47 AM   #15
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on the gravity bit...

have you also considered that the legacy with the 2.5 is slightly heavier than the wrx with the 2.0 - and that the extra mass up front will exaggerate this effect.

A not so good analogy (its 2:45 am!) would be a shopping cart at the supermarket parking lot.

If it's empty and rolling down a hill, it'll travel slower and tilt way less than say, a full shopping cart.


between the weight balance of the vehicle and the mass difference up front - i believe that is causing what you are currently going through. Not a big deal. More air. Or just a firmer hand at the wheel.

-victor
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Old 07-04-2003, 09:37 AM   #16
Heather
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Smile

Thanks guys! Good analogy Victor with the shopping cart.
We will take it in anyway to have it rechecked. What's odd is it did not do this with the heavy Pilot Sport XGT H4 tires at all- Only after the ALK and the Pilot Sport A/S tires did we notice this phenominon. I think the ALK- which plants the front tires down much more- exaggerates this "gravity" effect. The Legacy is only 300 pounds heavier then the WRX, but I bet it's mostly upfront weight like you said. Interesting. I will have to find a really flat parking lot and test to see if it still drifts to the right. That would be a good test of alignment.

Heather
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Old 07-05-2003, 03:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Re: humm...

Quote:
Originally posted by Heather


I did mention my PSI in both cars afew posts ago. My husband will in no way vary above 1 pound per tire of air pressure ever. He is a by-the-book kind of guy He always comments on my 35 PSI in the front of my WRX stateing that I will destroy my tires. I even checked them a few times and found he let the air out! He hates a rough ride and thinks my tires will wearout fast at 35psi so in no way will he change his tire pressure, unless I sneak it in there
Heather
Send him away somewhere for a day and try out like 40psi and see if the problem goes away. If it works, tell him your tire pressure is now off limits cause he doesnt know what he is doing

But seriously, when you get new tires on new wheels you must try out different pressures to see how the ride responds. And in fact slightly higher pressures will INCREASE the life of your tires not decrease it.
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