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Old 06-30-2003, 10:05 PM   #1
Jon [in CT]
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Default Yet another XT review

This one was published in "Florida Sports" and was written by Nina Russin. It's at http://www.floridasports.com/story.c...blicationID=27. I do have problems with two spots.
Quote:
Turbocharging increases the engine's low-end torque (power) ...
I don't think so.
Quote:
The engineers determined that the two-liter engine was not appropriate for turbocharging, ...
I hope the WRX folks don't see this.
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Old 06-30-2003, 10:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: Yet another XT review

say it ain't so

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
I hope the WRX folks don't see this.
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Old 06-30-2003, 11:23 PM   #3
Peaty
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There was a link I had to send them an e-mail.
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Old 06-30-2003, 11:29 PM   #4
Mike Wevrick
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That's a pretty clueless review ... the comment about high-altitude testing was interesting but likely also wrong.
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Old 06-30-2003, 11:36 PM   #5
Peaty
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Wevrick
That's a pretty clueless review ... the comment about high-altitude testing was interesting but likely also wrong.
I agree, clueless. Also, all NA motors don't do well at high altitudes anyway.
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Old 07-01-2003, 12:23 AM   #6
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This review is terrible.

It gives little new information, is simplistic, and, in several instances, outright wrong.

Don't these writers fact check, or at least have someone else to do it for them?

I, too, sent them an email.
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Old 07-01-2003, 01:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Wevrick
the comment about high-altitude testing was interesting but likely also wrong.
Car and Driver also mentioned high-altitude testing as a reason for the turbo engine. Might not be true, but if it isn't its a pretty rapidly spreading urban legend.
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Old 07-01-2003, 04:47 PM   #8
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"Car and Driver also mentioned high-altitude testing as a reason for the turbo engine. Might not be true, but if it isn't its a pretty rapidly spreading urban legend."

I can't speak to the 'testing' part of that, but all the official Subaru announcements and press releases referred to the high-altitude advantage. Maybe these subsequent references are just parroting SOA's blurbs, embellished slightly with the 'testing' bit.

jb
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Old 07-01-2003, 04:58 PM   #9
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But, but all turbos have a high altitude advantage, don't they?
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Old 07-01-2003, 06:05 PM   #10
Jack Brown
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Peaty chides, "But, but all turbos have a high altitude advantage, don't they?"

Not when yours is on a Messerschmitt, and mine is on a P-51 Mustang...
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Old 07-01-2003, 07:36 PM   #11
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Default P-51

Actually the P-51 had a 2 stage supercharger, and good high octane fuel, whereas the BF109 had to use water alcohol injection due to the low quality fuel, and still didn't match the power of the merlin engines.

Cheers
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Old 07-01-2003, 07:43 PM   #12
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Post Nina Russin

Nina Russin
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Old 07-02-2003, 12:55 AM   #13
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Default Another surprising C&D factoid:

Disregard if you already read this at Edmunds

Peaty faxed a zip of the full C&D test to me today. Remember that 129mph observed top speed? It was NOT drag limited! Even though it was reached at about 300 rpm past the HP peak, according to C&D it was GOVERNOR limited!

My previous calculations indicated that (with what I then assumed was a 4.11 final drive), the XT would reach a drag-limited max at around 134-135mph at about 5,500-5,600 rpm (in other words, almost exactly at its stated horsepower peak).

If in fact C&D's test car was governor limited at 129 mph, that implies that without the governor, there would have been more left. Any additional mph above 129 would have carried the car even farther down the curve past the HP peak.

I interpret this as a modest indication in support of several peoples' educated guess that the XT may indeed be developing more than its rated 210 hp.

I'm now estimating that minus the governor and geared correctly (probably 3.9:1), it's quite possible an otherwise stock XT might reach or slightly exceed 140 mph at 5,500-5,600 rpm.

If so, that wouldn't be too shabby for a $24,000 all-wheel-drive brick.

jack
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Old 07-02-2003, 12:59 AM   #14
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Pat chides, "Actually the P-51 had a 2 stage supercharger,"

Correct. I was exercising a large dose of writer's license...

jb
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Old 07-02-2003, 01:03 AM   #15
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Default Re: Another surprising C&D factoid:

Quote:
Originally posted by boomer1

I'm now estimating that minus the governor and geared correctly (probably 3.9:1), it's quite possible an otherwise stock XT might reach or slightly exceed 140 mph at 5,500-5,600 rpm.
Now why would anybody want to go that fast?
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Old 07-02-2003, 01:36 AM   #16
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Default Re: Another surprising C&D factoid:

Quote:
Originally posted by boomer1
Disregard if you already read this at Edmunds

Peaty faxed a zip of the full C&D test to me today. Remember that 129mph observed top speed? It was NOT drag limited! Even though it was reached at about 300 rpm past the HP peak, according to C&D it was GOVERNOR limited!

jack
Is this governor only on the automatic or on the 5 speed, too?

The XT that I drove today had H-rated Yokohama Geolanders on it. Since H-rated tires are only certified to 130 MPH, I think that is either explanation, corroboration, or both.
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Old 07-02-2003, 01:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: Re: Another surprising C&D factoid:

Quote:
Originally posted by agent007kimball


Now why would anybody want to go that fast?
Well there are some lonely freeways in Nevada where you might get a little bored...
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Old 07-03-2003, 07:39 PM   #18
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Default Heads up, XT fans...

The August issue of Car & Driver finally arrived at local newsstands today...

jb
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Old 07-03-2003, 11:01 PM   #19
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boomer--

Question for you--

My XT does 3000 rpm at 70 mph indicated. I should be hitting 138 at 5900 rpm, not the 129 at 5900 as indicated by C/D. I'm just wondering if maybe

A) Somethings goofy on my XT (maybe I've got a 4.11 gearset or my indications are off)

or

B) Did C/D get a ringer for the test?

Have any of the other XT owners observed where their rpm/speeds are and calculated their final drive?

Thanks--

Marc
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Old 07-03-2003, 11:46 PM   #20
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On a recent XT 5-speed testdrive I measured 2500rpm@65mph.

Ken
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Old 07-03-2003, 11:56 PM   #21
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I have 70 MPH at 3K and around 90 at 4K
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Old 07-04-2003, 01:27 AM   #22
boomer1
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Default XT mph/1000

Marc says, "My XT does 3000 rpm at 70 mph indicated. I should be hitting 138 at 5900 rpm, not the 129 at 5900 as indicated by C/D. I'm just wondering if maybe A) Somethings goofy on my XT (maybe I've got a 4.11 gearset or my indications are off) or B) Did C/D get a ringer for the test?"

I'm beginning to believe the latter is true, and if so, one wonders why C&D wouldn't have asked what axle ratios 'production' XTs will use, or why Subaru would have supplied a very non-typical example for C&D's tests...

I see Peaty's 5-speed matches your 3,000rpm @ 70mph. That's also exactly what mine shows. For all three of us, then, that's 23.33mph/1000, versus C&D's 21.8. IF we happened to have 4.11 axles (same as other Foresters), this difference would indicate 4.40 for C&D's XT - awfully close to their published 4.44, and certainly within the margin of error that our speedos might be showing. But unless the speedos on my, your, and Peaty's XTs are all WAY off - and all by the same error factor - then it certainly seems as if we may all be running 4.11 axles instead of C&D's 4.44.

On the other hand, you'd think that would translate to better gas mileage than C&D reported. They got 20 mpg during their test. That would have included full-bore performance testing and (doubtless) VERY enthusiastic driving during the remainder of their miles. I, on the other hand, just completed my first tankful:
284.1 miles, using 14.27 gallons. That's only 19.9 mpg, and I have been babying this thing the whole time, using only 2500-3000 rpm MAXIMUM and light to moderate throttle.

I like to think I'm pretty savvy about automobiles, but all of these conflicting and inconsistent factors are beyond my limited comprehension.

Several people with automatics say they run 3,000 at an indicated 75mph. If true, that would suggest that automatic XT's might possibly be running 3.9 axles...

jb
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Old 07-04-2003, 03:30 AM   #23
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according to the parts cd (FAST2)

the XT has 4.444 LSD

-victor
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Old 07-04-2003, 08:31 AM   #24
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vsigma wrote, "according to the parts cd (FAST2) the XT has 4.444 LSD"

I hope to check my speedo calibration today on a holiday run to Bonneville Dam by clocking it through true, measured 5-mile intervals. Unless the speedo indicates at least 8% higher than true speed, I don't see how the 4.44 axle spec (and C&D's 21.8mph/1000) can be consistent with what's in our cars.

I'm not saying it doesn't FEEL like 4.44, but the indicated speed per revs doesn't match up.

jb
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Old 07-04-2003, 09:04 AM   #25
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whoever wrote this article is an idiot
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