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Old 04-30-2003, 12:25 PM   #1
maciek
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Default KYB AGX compatibility

Does anybody know if I can take my KYB AGX (which are for an Impreza anyway) off my '98 wagon and throw them on a '96 sedan w/ no problems?

I like the struts and all...but the 1/2" higher perch doesn't give me the drop I'm looking for.

If anybody is interested in these (7 months old) let me know. If not I might throw them on my GF car.


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Old 04-30-2003, 02:14 PM   #2
jacobhorn
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I'll take the struts if they didn't lower your car more in the rear than in the front. You say that the rear strut perch is 1/2 inch higher than stock? I've heard that the AGX rear perch is actually 1/2 inch lower than the stock location, causing the rear to drop unevenly. Please explain. Thanks!

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Old 04-30-2003, 03:56 PM   #3
maciek
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I have seen posts claiming that the front perch is 1/2" higher and ones claiming that the rear is 1/2" lower.

Jacob, when I saw pics of your car, I noticed that your front was lower then mine, and we used the same springs. My conclusion is that the front is higher, but I will try to measure the stock struts and the AGX's when I get off work.

I will post results later tonight.

maciek
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Old 04-30-2003, 09:19 PM   #4
ciper
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What does the AGX have to do with the spring perch and strut top?
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Old 04-30-2003, 10:01 PM   #5
maciek
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Ciper - sorry, maybe my terminology is incorrect...I always thought that the area of the strut assembly where the spring sits is called the spring perch.

Anyway, I just swapped the AGX in front to stock, and it is indeed 1/2" lower w/ the same springs. I think I might be getting the GR2's tomorrow.

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Old 04-30-2003, 10:14 PM   #6
ciper
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You are right, the spring perch is a correct term, but on the front of the vehicle and the rear of most vehicle the strut top is seperate from the spring perch. The AGX themselves shouldnt determine the height of the vehicle, this is controlled by the strut top and spring.
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Old 04-30-2003, 11:38 PM   #7
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These are AGXs for the 93-01 Impreza correct? They should fit perfectly on the 2nd gen Legacy (Sedan or Wagon). This Monovich struts link, compliments of Steve's STI strut install on his BG, gives you a good idea of the strut "parts" that determine your potential ride height

The spring perch is the part at the bottom of the strut (looking up from the bottom of the picture) where the spring bottom rests and you can already see that there is a difference between the one on the left and the one on the right. in terms of spacing "up" the strut from the bottom. In theory, the STI struts should technically "raise" the car because the spring perch is about 1/2" higher than the stock strut but that's only part of the equation

The coil spring itself plays a large role in the ultimate height of your car due to its physical construction. Some are made longer top to bottom and other are made shorter. Some are more compliant meaning they 'yield" under the weight of the car and drop while some are made to be non-compliant and are like rocks stuck in there (and they can feel that way when you drive too)

The spring top "perch" sits immediately below the stut top mount (top hat) and typically just holds the top of the coil sping in place and keeps it from getting squirrely on compression but, again, depending on it's fabrication it can also serve to "compress" the spring height, and while keeping the spring more "loaded" can also lower your car somewhat.

The top hat really functions to keep the strut centered on its up and down plane and provides some defensive measures against wheel NVH being transmitting to the rest of the car through the strut mount. Some tops hats, like the STI Group N hats, are very stiff and NVH is increased but they are able to keep the strut more firmly centered and consequently, most drivers notice enhanced steering response, turn-in etc. Some, like the Cusco pillow-ball mounts enable you to dial in/dial out additional camber in excess of that available with the factory camber settings.

Bottom line, spring perch, spring height and compliance, and even the spring top mount can all effect your ride height. It's not just one thing or another, it's a combination of all of those things added up or subtracted that will give you your final "approximate" change. When you see a Whiteline spring advertisement that says 1" drop, that's typically on stock struts using existing stock hardware. All of that can and usually does change if you use other than stock struts.

Sorry for the long post. I just keep seeing similar questions so it's good to keep these things in the back of your mind as you make your mod decisions.

Br, Dale
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Old 05-01-2003, 10:58 AM   #8
maciek
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Over the past couple of years there has been numerous posts claiming that the application of the AGX Impreza strut on a Legacy caused the front to sit higher. This could of been due to the front perch on the AGX to be higher or the rear to be lower.

I decided to do the experiment and throw on the stock struts keeping all else the same. This has dropped my car another minimum of 1/2".

I'm getting each corner down to about 25min

I'm going to take the AGX to a shop here and compare the perch to a GR2 they have in stock....will post results later.


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Old 05-01-2003, 08:16 PM   #9
maciek
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Just got back from comparing a brand new GR2 w/ my AGX takeoff, and they are identical. So it seems that the GR2 also has a 1/2" higher perch than stock.

Looks like I'm going to have to go w/ Eibach and my AGX's to fix this huge front wheel gap.

maciek
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Old 05-01-2003, 08:34 PM   #10
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How would the Gr2 (and AGX) have a higher spring perch than stock if they are meant to be direct bolt on replacements?!

Something else is causing the height difference.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:00 PM   #11
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Are you using stock springs? If so, I can see how it might raise the car. If the lower perch is .5" higher, then the spring is already being compressed more, just upon assembly. This would result in a stiffer spring when it went on the car, and keep the car a bit higher off the ground.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:31 PM   #12
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I'm using the Whiteline Low springs...1" drop.
When I put them on ~7 months ago I always wondered why the front set up way higher then the rear...front only lowered 0"-1/2" and the rear 1" .

I saw pics of jacobs sedan (same springs and stock struts) around the same time and the front looked a lot lower.

I measured the perch heights when I removed my AGX's yesterday....and for sure they are different. It might be the fact that my car is the 'L' model.

Makes sense that if the whole spring assembly area set higher on the strut, the car would sit higher.
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Old 05-01-2003, 10:19 PM   #13
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In the past KYB has been AWSOME when answering questions, they explained what all the adjustment settings are equal to and even told the specific compression and rebound rates of different struts. Someone should mail them!
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:52 PM   #14
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It may have something to do with the KYB AGXs being "Impreza" struts but you'd have to put a stock Impreza strut next to ithe AGX to make that comparison rather than you're stock Legacy strut. I know that Nuburu2 has swapped his stock GT struts/springs out for a set of AGX/Eibach (think I got that one right) and he's had no issues and his car (BG) looks great all the way around.. Me thinks that it may have something to do with the springs, rate and perch height.... so that's where I'd start in that order. Also, the springs are specifically for the front and back and are usually marked with a Front P/N and a Rear P/N. Not sure if you installed them yourself or had them installed but I'd also check that just to make sure. Visually, you should have no problem telling the two apart off the car but if some else did the install...then I'd recheck the work. Just my .02 worth

Br, Dale
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Old 05-02-2003, 12:20 AM   #15
maciek
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I'm going to try H&R springs next.

I have seen probably a dozen thresds where someone mentions a ride height change just w/ the AGX's.

I stood the stock strut next to the AGX, they visually have a big difference in perch height...I measured to make sure.

When I compared the AGX (Impreza) with the GR2 (Legacy), they appeared to be identical....which leads me to believe that the KYB's in general have a higher set perch.
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Old 05-02-2003, 11:52 AM   #16
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I was there when maciek changed struts from the AGX to the stock stuts. It was crazy, as it droped the front down at least 1/2 an inch.

maciek, when are the H&R's going on? I will be over to help.

Ryan
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Old 05-02-2003, 01:26 PM   #17
maciek
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finse46 - I need to find a place to order the springs...I'm having difficulty locating wagon specific H&R for the BG.


maciek
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Old 05-02-2003, 03:14 PM   #18
snowone
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Subietonic: Nice break-down top-to-bottom... good to account for all factors when looking for true cause of ride-height.

Clarifications:

Nuburu2 is running KYB AGX w/ Whiteline "low/control" WAGON springs. *reporting an even approx. 1" drop. *Stock upper mounts... if I remember correctly.

JacobHorn is running Whiteline "super-low/flat-out" SEDAN springs on stock GT struts. *reporting 2+ inch drop? with noteable rear "sag". *He received alternate springs upon request from WL, but don't think he installed them?

Whiteling Spring part #'s for BD:
"Control / Low" Springs : 70198 Front Pair & 70381 Rear Pair
“Flat-Out/Super-Low” Springs: 74502 Front / 70370 Rear
Whiteline Spring Full Catalog PDF / Application Guide

I recently setup my BD w/ STI v6 "red" struts (used), STI v6 front upper mounts (used) w/ stock GT upper spring perch & rubber, whiteline "low/control" springs, and new "wrx" STI grpN Rear upper mounts. The WL spec'd 1"/30mm drop was not the result... the front end lwrd only about 1/4", and the rear was approx 1/2-3/4". It has all settled a bit... but I haven't re-measured. While it doesn't look uneven, or have rear sag... the back apparently did lower more.

Sorry for being OT... but thought information was applicable.

KYB AGX are compatible... but the question of lower perch height diff. and effect of overall suspension results in combination with WL and other springs remains.

Ciper:
Quote:
How would the Gr2 (and AGX) have a higher spring perch than stock if they are meant to be direct bolt on replacements?!
Maybe this is due to the fact that KYB doens't have a specific part/application for the Legacy... only Impreza, which is spec'd to be compatible w/ legacy, but as we've all noted, fits but yeild different ride height.

Who has installed KYB AGX or GR2 into BD/BG withou springs? Was there a difference in ride height?

I'd be interested in seeing measurements/photos of struts for comparision: stock impreza, stock legacy, sti ver5/6, kyb.



* not sure where to buy H&R... surely one of the WRX vendors in the vendor classified section COULD get them... but a vendor with them in stock for Legacy...
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Old 05-02-2003, 03:56 PM   #19
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Didnt even realize that until you posted it. I was going to try and prove you wrong!

If you look around many online vendors are selling the AGX for Legacy/Outback models. You are right that these are actually the Impreza units that are incorrectly labeled as applicable for Legacy.

Though I dont have the Legacy model in question, Im using the AGX with whiteline springs on one of my vehicles.
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Old 05-02-2003, 09:48 PM   #20
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Default Springs & Height

maciek, I can't speak for the BD specifically, but if you'll look at the pics here you can see for yourself that my WhiteLine springs are significantly shorter in the front. I fact they were "sloppy" in the mounts B4 dropping the car onto them, to the point that I was concerned, but no problems with them shifting around or anything since finishing the install well over a year ago.

http://home.earthlink.net/~nuburu2/

So, I'm wondering, like Dale, if you got the springs arranged correctly? Mine are wagon specific, applying I believe, to the rear springs only, but there was definitely no big difference front to rear. I know also that WhiteLine is very good about answering, and in some cases replacing questionable products, so try e-mailing them. Best of luck with your continuing efforts!

Glenn O
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Old 05-02-2003, 10:03 PM   #21
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FWIW - I have the GR2's (Legacy versions) with Eibachs - you can search for pix of my car - ride height is perfect.

Again, the AGX's are NOT listed as being applicable to the Legacy, only Impreza, which is why, despite the fact we are often asked to, we will not sell them to a Legacy owner. I have not found it to be worth the potential hassle and lack of warranty.

Adam
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Old 05-05-2003, 11:46 AM   #22
maciek
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nuburu2 - My setup is exactly the same as yours. I bet if you swapped the stock struts back on the front, you would get an additional 1/2" drop. It's probably why they always advertise drops w/ stock struts...results start to vary w/ different setups.


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Old 05-07-2003, 12:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by maciek
finse46 - I need to find a place to order the springs...I'm having difficulty locating wagon specific H&R for the BG.


maciek
Maciek,

Try Rallitek. They advertise H&R Sport Springs for the 90-99 Legacy Sedan and Wagon (AWD only). Check this Rallitek Legacy Suspension Link to see if it fits your application and for the part number . Price seems very reasonable given how hard these things are to locate new.

Br, Dale
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Old 05-23-2003, 04:56 PM   #24
240se
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Question

Quote:
Originally posted by maciek
I have seen posts claiming that the front perch is 1/2" higher and ones claiming that the rear is 1/2" lower.
So are both the front AND rear spring perchs 1/2" higher or just the front? I want to RAISE the rear of my 98' L wagon about another 1/2" and I would really like to know if the struts would do it.
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Old 07-09-2003, 07:55 PM   #25
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ok i need to bring this back and ask some questions, for i am now looking for new struts.

First of all, from what i have heard, the KYB AGX struts are ~1/2 higher then the stock struts. even though they are the struts for the impreza not the legacy, is that correct?

Has anyone compared the actual ride height with the KYB AGX's without changing the springs?

I have had H & R springs installed in the past, but they caused rubbing, so i took them out. I am wondering if the AGXs increase ride height, would it keep the drop of the H & R springs from being quite as low, and therefor not rubbing any more.

thanks for any help.
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