Cancel Order Due to Det Probs?

E. Nick · 07-11-2003, 12:50 AM

I have an STi on order, delivery in late July, and am having second thoughts due to the detonation issues I've been reading about. I live in New York, so finding 94 octane isn't a problem, and I do plan to add a FMIC. However, I would hope that my car would be just as reliable with the stock TMIC in 90 degrees, running on 91. It's starting to make my original consideration set (Volvo R, S4, and Evo) sound more appealing. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

WorldOne · 07-11-2003, 02:15 AM

Hi there..

I personally have an opinion that might be contrary to what most on here will say, however I will divulge it anyways. I am currently involved in the "battle" with the dealership getting them to recognize that they are a problem, and I think that if I had to do things again, I would have waited till the next model year.

I can not tell you how agonizing it is to have pined over this car for more than 6 months, receiving it and having it be everything I hoped it would be, and finally to hear miniture craters being blasted into my piston heads and cylinder walls each time I go WOT.

I am certainly not saying that owning an STI is a gaurantee you will have a run in with detonation, however you can save your self the headache if you simply wait one model year.

I realize that this isn't the enthusiasts attitude, and I realize that buying a car in its first model year is asking to be part of the shake down process. However, I feel that this is more than just a minor problem.

Finally I want to close by saying that perhaps its to early to make this decision. Afterall, our STI has less then 2K miles and the cars are less than 2 months old. Lets give subaru some time to clean this us up and then ask this question again. On the flip side, the more time we give them, the closer you are to a MY05.

Cheers,

edit: This is all on 92 octane!

RA29 · 07-11-2003, 02:22 AM

A good rule of thumb is not to buy a new car in the first year. It will likely have a ton of problems. The Mini Cooper and RSX had a host of problems when they first came out.

This pinging issue is a bit worrisome as it isnt something that you can really control (other than driving at below 4000rpm but then why get an STI then).

In the end, it's up to you though.

liigod · 07-11-2003, 02:30 AM

just put high octane gas in it... and if you cant get high enough... go buy toluene in bulk and add it to your tank.

CoOlSlY · 07-11-2003, 07:04 AM

WorldOne: I just hope you don't run in the Mustang Cobra SVT 99 story... They were advertised at 320hp, they were delivering 300-305hp... Some had to sue Ford to get the problem fixed... Hope that if some of you are having problems, you won't have any probs getting your car fixed.

Sylvain

JDMTEG98 · 07-11-2003, 08:28 AM

300 miles plus and running fine. 93 octance gas and you should A OK

PS: I have taken the car over 4000K just a few times and still no knocks or pings

omahasubaru · 07-11-2003, 08:31 AM

I waited until the '03 MY to buy my WRX for this exact reason. Same reason my friend is waiting until next year to get his Forester XT.

If you can wait, then do.... it will be worth it in the end even if the changes are minor (like '02-'03).

Guyver · 07-11-2003, 08:43 AM

Why wait ? Just because some small percentage of STi's have a det problem. Hogwash. I have over 2000 miles and no det problem. Buy good 93 Octane Fuel and you should have no problem.

The people with problem can rightly complain but that does not mean anything but a small minority has a problem.
Subaru should fix it for them.

If you are afraid but want the car buy the extended warantee if you are not going to mod the thing.

PM me if you want some info on extendeds.

Guyver:

kenzo · 07-11-2003, 09:17 AM

If I had to do it over again, I would have waited.

Subaru will only honor their warranty if they feel a "real" problem exists - that judgment is up to them.

So far they have been telling people that what they hear (det/ping) isn't a problem. They may be right, but I wish I had let others be the guinea pigs to ensure that it's just a perception issue rather than a long-term reliability issue.

amdmaxx · 07-11-2003, 09:17 AM

detonation has nothing to do with quality of gas..
just call subaru of America and report the problem, the more of us report this, the better SOA will recognize that this is a mass problem and will probably issue a fix/recall/ecu reflash..

CALL SOA and report your detonation!!!!

deadbolt · 07-11-2003, 09:30 AM

You guys are making this sound like all the cars are doing it. We have delivered 7 here, mine included and have yet to have the first one report a detonation, ping, knock, or other wierd sound.

'04 STi · 07-11-2003, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by amdmaxx
CALL SOA and report your detonation!!!!

Don't call SoA. Take the car to the dealer. That's the only way for things to get resolved. The dealer needs to document it.

Bill

gtguy · 07-11-2003, 09:59 AM

This is like the WRX "glass transmission" problem. It gets chattered about and grows and grows until it becomes the stuff of legend, and a fundamental characteristic of the car, rather than an aberration.

Kevin

deadbolt · 07-11-2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gtguy
This is like the WRX "glass transmission" problem. It gets chattered about and grows and grows until it becomes the stuff of legend, and a fundamental characteristic of the car, rather than an aberration.

Kevin

Exactly my point.

boxerT · 07-11-2003, 10:23 AM

2K miles on my STi and no detonation problems. The STi is basically a 3-year old platform, all components on it have been used previously on the GC and GD platforms. I don't see how waiting to the next model year will resolve anything. Subaru is not a Ford, you know.

My '02 Blaze Yellow WRX (first USA shipment) was perfect for 20K miles with heavy auto-x use. All the monkeys that complained about broken transmissions need either learn how to shift smoothly, or stop modifying their cars beyond what factory parts can handle.

...and what if there isn't a '05 model?

LimeyWRX · 07-11-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boxerT
...and what if there isn't a '05 model?

I'm betting that they won't be around until the fall of 2004 (possible early 2005) as the WRX was a 18 month model before the 03's were released and very little changed.

robmarch · 07-11-2003, 10:37 AM

I'm not sure if I'm DET'ng or not, because all I hear is the turbo and the tires

ToddStratton · 07-11-2003, 10:38 AM

2500 miles on mine and the car has zero problems. I use 93 octane and have tried my best to replicate the problems _some_ people have reported. I've done low rpm pulls through every gear up-hill, nothing. I've given rides with 3-4 people in the car in 80 and 90 degree weather, up hill, and with WOT runs through the first few gears. Nothing. I autocrossed in 95+ degree heat last week, nothing. I drive up a 3000ft elevation gain to get home everyday. No problem, even in 90+ degree heat down low. The car just keeps hammering and it gets better as time goes on. If you have access to the proper gas, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

TRS

wolverine · 07-11-2003, 11:09 AM

It sounds like it is a production problem of some sort, because some STis are pinging, others are not on the same gas. If that's the case, then it is just a manufacturing mishap. Sure, like when you manufacture PC boards (for example), there will be some bad ones with shorts/gaps, no matter what. That's what warranties are for. So, I don't see how next year (or year after next) model will help--They may be able to reduce the margin of error, but a margin of error will always be there.

essogas · 07-11-2003, 11:31 AM

I will say this about my Sti. So far (crosses fingers, knocks on wood) my car has no det problems anytime even at wide open throttle. I have 2000Km on it and run 91 Esso Octane. Perhaps, it might be the better Canadian qaulity gas but so far it's been good.

jagcars26 · 07-11-2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gtguy
This is like the WRX "glass transmission" problem. It gets chattered about and grows and grows until it becomes the stuff of legend, and a fundamental characteristic of the car, rather than an aberration.

Kevin

Agreed,,
My dealership has delivered 4 with no reported det or ping probs.We do have 94 octane here also and that is what is used in the car from the dealer for the 1st free fill at delivery.
My two cents
Rudy

CANAILLE · 07-11-2003, 02:55 PM

I also have had no det. problems. I could never have waited another year for this car, I love it.

wrx what · 07-11-2003, 03:15 PM

the only problem i have is cash......

i need so much sheet

davidm_sh · 07-11-2003, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToddStratton
2500 miles on mine and the car has zero problems. I use 93 octane and have tried my best to replicate the problems _some_ people have reported. I've done low rpm pulls through every gear up-hill, nothing. I've given rides with 3-4 people in the car in 80 and 90 degree weather, up hill, and with WOT runs through the first few gears. Nothing. I autocrossed in 95+ degree heat last week, nothing. I drive up a 3000ft elevation gain to get home everyday. No problem, even in 90+ degree heat down low. The car just keeps hammering and it gets better as time goes on. If you have access to the proper gas, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

TRS

Todd this is sort of an unfair comparison for 2 reasons.

1) We live at altitude. Here in Colorado Springs we have 3.5 less psi than sea level. So equivacally it would be like running the STi at 11psi or so at sea level = probably not going to have detonation issues

2) You are running 93 octane. Most people seem to have this problem when running 91 octane.

Personally I am not too worried because we can get away with a more aggressive tune (read timing bumps) up here than sea level people can. BUT I am going to keep a CLOSE eye on the car when I go down to sea level.

E. Nick · 07-11-2003, 03:40 PM

Thanks for all the input. I won't be cancelling my order. With 94 octane and the FMIC, the chances of me seeing det will be further reduced... and once the aftermarket comes out with some good engine management, det won't be a concern at all. Thanks again.

07-11-2003, 12:50 AM	#1
E. Nick Scooby Specialist Member#: 8489 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Atherton, CA Vehicle: 1978 Plymouth Volare Maroon / White Vinyl	Cancel Order Due to Det Probs? I have an STi on order, delivery in late July, and am having second thoughts due to the detonation issues I've been reading about. I live in New York, so finding 94 octane isn't a problem, and I do plan to add a FMIC. However, I would hope that my car would be just as reliable with the stock TMIC in 90 degrees, running on 91. It's starting to make my original consideration set (Volvo R, S4, and Evo) sound more appealing. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Today has been cancelled due to lack of interest.	SkirtBoy	Off-Topic	16	10-07-2004 09:56 AM
Any word on if PPIHC cancelled due to fires?	Whit	Rocky Mountains Impreza Club Forum -- RMIC	18	06-24-2002 02:02 PM
FYI.. Devens autocross cancelled due to mud and snow conditions...	Fitz	New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC	9	04-02-2001 12:57 AM
Welsh Rally cancelled due to disease!	SFsube	Motorsports	3	02-28-2001 02:46 AM
Ice Race Cancelled due to ice conditions.	dgosslin	Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC	7	01-10-2001 12:05 AM

07-11-2003, 02:15 AM	#2
WorldOne Vendor Member#: 22731 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle, WA Vehicle: 2002 WRB Do-Luck GDA worldoneperformance.com	Hi there.. I personally have an opinion that might be contrary to what most on here will say, however I will divulge it anyways. I am currently involved in the "battle" with the dealership getting them to recognize that they are a problem, and I think that if I had to do things again, I would have waited till the next model year. I can not tell you how agonizing it is to have pined over this car for more than 6 months, receiving it and having it be everything I hoped it would be, and finally to hear miniture craters being blasted into my piston heads and cylinder walls each time I go WOT. I am certainly not saying that owning an STI is a gaurantee you will have a run in with detonation, however you can save your self the headache if you simply wait one model year. I realize that this isn't the enthusiasts attitude, and I realize that buying a car in its first model year is asking to be part of the shake down process. However, I feel that this is more than just a minor problem. Finally I want to close by saying that perhaps its to early to make this decision. Afterall, our STI has less then 2K miles and the cars are less than 2 months old. Lets give subaru some time to clean this us up and then ask this question again. On the flip side, the more time we give them, the closer you are to a MY05. Cheers, edit: This is all on 92 octane!

07-11-2003, 02:22 AM	#3
RA29 Scooby Specialist Member#: 30598 Join Date: Dec 2002 Vehicle: 2000 Lancer Evo 6 Hot Pink	A good rule of thumb is not to buy a new car in the first year. It will likely have a ton of problems. The Mini Cooper and RSX had a host of problems when they first came out. This pinging issue is a bit worrisome as it isnt something that you can really control (other than driving at below 4000rpm but then why get an STI then). In the end, it's up to you though.

07-11-2003, 02:30 AM	#4
liigod Scooby Specialist Member#: 30512 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Yonder Vehicle: 01 2.5rs black	just put high octane gas in it... and if you cant get high enough... go buy toluene in bulk and add it to your tank.

07-11-2003, 07:04 AM	#5
CoOlSlY Scooby Newbie Member#: 31625 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Montréal, Qc, Canada	WorldOne: I just hope you don't run in the Mustang Cobra SVT 99 story... They were advertised at 320hp, they were delivering 300-305hp... Some had to sue Ford to get the problem fixed... Hope that if some of you are having problems, you won't have any probs getting your car fixed. Sylvain

07-11-2003, 08:28 AM	#6
JDMTEG98 Scooby Newbie Member#: 38671 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: I am Out, I am Out Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi World Rally Blue w/ Gold	300 miles plus and running fine. 93 octance gas and you should A OK PS: I have taken the car over 4000K just a few times and still no knocks or pings

07-11-2003, 08:31 AM	#7
omahasubaru Scooby Guru Member#: 1594 Join Date: Jun 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Gretna, NE Vehicle: 1995 WRX 2011 WRX	I waited until the '03 MY to buy my WRX for this exact reason. Same reason my friend is waiting until next year to get his Forester XT. If you can wait, then do.... it will be worth it in the end even if the changes are minor (like '02-'03).

07-11-2003, 08:43 AM	#8
Guyver Scooby Newbie Member#: 37319 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Silver/Silver	Why wait ? Just because some small percentage of STi's have a det problem. Hogwash. I have over 2000 miles and no det problem. Buy good 93 Octane Fuel and you should have no problem. The people with problem can rightly complain but that does not mean anything but a small minority has a problem. Subaru should fix it for them. If you are afraid but want the car buy the extended warantee if you are not going to mod the thing. PM me if you want some info on extendeds. Guyver:

07-11-2003, 09:17 AM	#9
kenzo Scooby Specialist Member#: 6422 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Had '02 WRX, '04 STi, '05 LGT Vehicle: 2008 Spec.B / 2008 Tribeca	If I had to do it over again, I would have waited. Subaru will only honor their warranty if they feel a "real" problem exists - that judgment is up to them. So far they have been telling people that what they hear (det/ping) isn't a problem. They may be right, but I wish I had let others be the guinea pigs to ensure that it's just a perception issue rather than a long-term reliability issue.

07-11-2003, 09:17 AM	#10
amdmaxx Scooby Specialist Member#: 31665 Join Date: Jan 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Northern NJ, USA Vehicle: 2006 Saab 9-2x Aero Black	detonation has nothing to do with quality of gas.. just call subaru of America and report the problem, the more of us report this, the better SOA will recognize that this is a mass problem and will probably issue a fix/recall/ecu reflash.. CALL SOA and report your detonation!!!!

07-11-2003, 09:30 AM	#11
deadbolt Scooby Specialist Member#: 990 Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Byoootiful WNC Vehicle: 96 Brighton and... many	You guys are making this sound like all the cars are doing it. We have delivered 7 here, mine included and have yet to have the first one report a detonation, ping, knock, or other wierd sound.

07-11-2003, 09:59 AM	#13
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	This is like the WRX "glass transmission" problem. It gets chattered about and grows and grows until it becomes the stuff of legend, and a fundamental characteristic of the car, rather than an aberration. Kevin

07-11-2003, 10:23 AM	#15
boxerT Scooby Newbie Member#: 16311 Join Date: Mar 2002 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Austin TX Vehicle: 2004 STi WR Blue	2K miles on my STi and no detonation problems. The STi is basically a 3-year old platform, all components on it have been used previously on the GC and GD platforms. I don't see how waiting to the next model year will resolve anything. Subaru is not a Ford, you know. My '02 Blaze Yellow WRX (first USA shipment) was perfect for 20K miles with heavy auto-x use. All the monkeys that complained about broken transmissions need either learn how to shift smoothly, or stop modifying their cars beyond what factory parts can handle. ...and what if there isn't a '05 model?

07-11-2003, 10:37 AM	#17
robmarch Scooby Specialist Member#: 18713 Join Date: May 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Time is the Enemy Vehicle: 06 CRV 04 STi	I'm not sure if I'm DET'ng or not, because all I hear is the turbo and the tires

07-11-2003, 10:38 AM	#18
ToddStratton Scooby Specialist Member#: 8351 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Alabama Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon	2500 miles on mine and the car has zero problems. I use 93 octane and have tried my best to replicate the problems _some_ people have reported. I've done low rpm pulls through every gear up-hill, nothing. I've given rides with 3-4 people in the car in 80 and 90 degree weather, up hill, and with WOT runs through the first few gears. Nothing. I autocrossed in 95+ degree heat last week, nothing. I drive up a 3000ft elevation gain to get home everyday. No problem, even in 90+ degree heat down low. The car just keeps hammering and it gets better as time goes on. If you have access to the proper gas, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. TRS

07-11-2003, 11:09 AM	#19
wolverine Scooby Newbie Member#: 36571 Join Date: May 2003 Location: NorCal Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Black & gold	It sounds like it is a production problem of some sort, because some STis are pinging, others are not on the same gas. If that's the case, then it is just a manufacturing mishap. Sure, like when you manufacture PC boards (for example), there will be some bad ones with shorts/gaps, no matter what. That's what warranties are for. So, I don't see how next year (or year after next) model will help--They may be able to reduce the margin of error, but a margin of error will always be there.

07-11-2003, 11:31 AM	#20
essogas Scooby Specialist Member#: 35703 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Blue/British Black 18's	I will say this about my Sti. So far (crosses fingers, knocks on wood) my car has no det problems anytime even at wide open throttle. I have 2000Km on it and run 91 Esso Octane. Perhaps, it might be the better Canadian qaulity gas but so far it's been good.

07-11-2003, 02:55 PM	#22
CANAILLE Scooby Newbie Member#: 35310 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: South La. Vehicle: 2004 sti TBA	I also have had no det. problems. I could never have waited another year for this car, I love it.

07-11-2003, 03:15 PM	#23
wrx what Scooby Specialist Member#: 19697 Join Date: Jun 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Northern VA Vehicle: 2008 WRX STi Aspen White	the only problem i have is cash...... i need so much sheet

07-11-2003, 03:40 PM	#25
E. Nick Scooby Specialist Member#: 8489 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Atherton, CA Vehicle: 1978 Plymouth Volare Maroon / White Vinyl	Thanks for all the input. I won't be cancelling my order. With 94 octane and the FMIC, the chances of me seeing det will be further reduced... and once the aftermarket comes out with some good engine management, det won't be a concern at all. Thanks again.