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Old 07-12-2003, 12:16 AM   #1
MANGO
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Default Is it really that hard to get a STI now?

I found this STI on Autotrader....

http://autotrader.com/findacar/vdeta...or=&cardist=27

this guy asking $38900 for his STI..........stock,4300miles...

Please tell me the price is not that step for a STI......
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Old 07-12-2003, 12:31 AM   #2
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STI's should be readily available in the next 6 months or so once the initial burn has faded. Iím sure you will be able to get one for under $30,000, brand new, by then. But for now, there are some dealers who are selling for MSRP, but most dealers are trying to squeeze extra money out of them. Personally I cant justify paying MSRP let alone MSRP + Markup.

That guy is seriously trying to make an imaginary extra buck, almost $39,000 and 4,300 hundred miles, I doubt he will even sell the car for the price. That is probably more humiliating than trying to sell a marked up STI on Ebay.

Im probably going to get heat for this comparison but, look whats happening with the Evo, ive been seeing more dealers selling them for under MSRP, infact there is a dealer in TN who is selling for $500 over invoice, since they got about 13 on there lot. Most of the Mitsu dealers here have 4 to 6 sitting on there lots... Yeah, real limited production alright.....
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Old 07-12-2003, 01:22 AM   #3
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Default Overpriced

I agree with LinuxGuy. This Sti's way overpriced.
With 4300 miles, my guess is that it's been autocrossed and raced into the ground. Bad investment. Just wait a few months.

Peace out,
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Old 07-12-2003, 01:32 AM   #4
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thanks for the clarifications....ya that what i thught too......maybe I should send the seller a email and just lowball him...hehhehehe
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Old 07-12-2003, 03:16 AM   #5
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Default STI price

I'm new to this forum. I'm thinking about getting an STI, but I am discouraged by the 5K markup by my local dealers. I found some at MSRP but that still make it 35K which I think is too much to pay for an STI. So, do you guys anticipate the price will drop later? how long did it take for the EVO to drop below the MSRP? The first WRX were hot also, my friend got a wrx in 04/02 with $2200 disc from MSRP. When was the WRX first introduced? Thanks in advance. My friend just bought a 03 s2000 at $500 over invoice.
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Old 07-12-2003, 04:54 AM   #6
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As long as STi's are snatched up at every allocation to a dealer, the price will remain high (MSRP or higher). Looking around me, STis are picked the day they are delivered if they are at MSRP. So, as long as that happens, there's no motivation to sell under MSRP.
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Old 07-12-2003, 09:05 AM   #7
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If SOA continue to import only 5000, or so, per year then I'm sure the general demand will be sufficient to keep the price around MSRP i.e. most dealers won't need to offer incentives like invoice and cheap-rate finance to shift them off the lot. Also, future allocations may be shifted around to meet geographic supply-and-demand which will also bolster the price and stop cars from sitting on lots in certain regions of the country or being sold off at ridiculously low prices (my speculation).

I certainly think the mark-ups will slowly drop/disappear though.

Also, I reckon SOA are probably not making a whole lot of profit on this car, given the technology it's packing, so the current price (without mark-ups) is more than fair in my estimation. If anything, MSRPs usually drift upward with new model year releases, so I wouldn't expect to see STis being sold at sub-$30k prices anytime soon (apart from a select few dealerships who do all their business selling just above invoice).
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Old 07-12-2003, 10:59 AM   #8
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Seems to me that Subaru will make as many as they can sell.
My bet is this car becomes a commodity like all the other subaru products. 3-5% over invoice is just around the corner.
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Old 07-12-2003, 02:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by reks
Seems to me that Subaru will make as many as they can sell.
My bet is this car becomes a commodity like all the other subaru products. 3-5% over invoice is just around the corner.
There's no incentive in Subaru doing this, vs. the WRX. The STi is, for Subaru, more important as a marketplace statement than a potential seller. Sure, they'd like to sell some, but the very fact that they got the car out in this market says more about the new way they would like Subaru to be perceived than all of the advertising campaigns in the free world.

WRX=cool.
STi=REALLY cool, and a transformation for Subaru from quirky little car company to one with serious performance credibility.

They won't want their "statements" sitting around, unsold, on dealer lots. It's easy to keep demand high for a car by simply controlling production numbers. After all, Subaru doesn't really NEED to sell STis, just as they don't really NEED to sell Forester XTs. The critical car for Subaru comes next year, when the new Legacy hits these shores.

If the STi doesn't sell as many as they thought, nobody will care a whole lot, because the job of that car has already been done. If they don't sell as many Legacies as they hope, you'll see people jumping out of windows.

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Old 07-12-2003, 02:40 PM   #10
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I don't think so..........the STi isn't simply a re-badged WRX that comes off the normal assembly lines at prodigious rates........even if they wanted to incease supply SIGNIFICANTLY for the US market it's not clear that STi could meet the increased demand.
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Old 07-12-2003, 03:37 PM   #11
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In Europe, I think the statistic is that 30% of all imprezas sold are STi's. Or is it 30% of all WRX's are STi's? I guess we'll find out by how many are on the lots at the end of the year.
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Old 07-12-2003, 04:09 PM   #12
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I really question the limited number produced. BMW got sued a few years ago for selling more M5 than advertised. I have a c32 which is limited to 1000/yr, but I see more c32 on the road than the sti. So I think MB makes more than that per year.

I have been looking for cars for a while. Have you guys seen the new car disc offered by makers? I almost bought a 30k 4 runner for 23.5 today, but I decided not to take it. MB E500 sports are selling for 5.5k off. That is the situation of the new car market.

The rest of the Subarus are not exactly selling like hot cakes. The dealership can not survive on just those 6000 car per year. When there are people to keep working in Japan and USA, the car maker will keep pumping out cars to keep the net work going. Toyota on average looses $600 per new car, but they make it up in the long run from service and they keep their market share. Also, it does not cost the car maker that much to make WRX into STI. (Not as much as we think) It does not cost MB that much to make a regular c into a c32. Since they don't have to throw away the old parts like we do when we do it aftermarket.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-12-2003, 07:32 PM   #13
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Two points:

1. I see most of you complaining about availablity are out in CA - where I'm sure every dealer price gouges. Case closed. I'm in MA, and if I wanted an STi by next weekend, I'm sure I could find one at MSRP within 500 miles.

2. The sti will not be a limited edition or special edition car. Subaru will meet demand no problem - they have no interest in withholding product from the public. How much exclusiveness do you genuinely expect from a pimped out econobox, really? In the real world, most people buy a nice BMW 325 over an sti, for 30K. I picked up my WRX at $400 over invoice in August 2001, 5 months after it was released. Just picked it up right off the lot. Given the state of the economy, I think you should see sti's stocked on dealers lots, selling for under $30000, within 3 months.

Kevin
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Old 07-12-2003, 09:02 PM   #14
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If they are selling well, they are not going to cap their supply to retain a "statement" automobile. Unless, of course, they want to their statement to go something like this:

"We are business morons."
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Old 07-12-2003, 10:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by drfrink24
If they are selling well, they are not going to cap their supply to retain a "statement" automobile. Unless, of course, they want to their statement to go something like this:

"We are business morons."
Couldn't have said it better myself!!!



Kevin
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Old 07-12-2003, 11:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by drfrink24
If they are selling well, they are not going to cap their supply to retain a "statement" automobile. Unless, of course, they want to their statement to go something like this:

"We are business morons."
Ha Ha, I like the way you put that
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
Two points:

Given the state of the economy, I think you should see sti's stocked on dealers lots, selling for under $30000, within 3 months.

Kevin

Under $30K in 3 months? No way!
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
Two points:

How much exclusiveness do you genuinely expect from a pimped out econobox, really? Kevin

I wouldn't describe the STi as a "pimped out econobox" I agree that the interior parts could use some upgrading, but the engine, tranny, suspension and AWD system are all top notch.

I agree with everything else you said though.
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Old 07-13-2003, 10:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoso



I wouldn't describe the STi as a "pimped out econobox" I agree that the interior parts could use some upgrading, but the engine, tranny, suspension and AWD system are all top notch.

That's what I mean. It's basicly a $15,000 car with an extra $15,000 put into the drivetrain, brakes and suspension. I think most of the public is not interested in a car like that. I am, however.

Kevin
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Old 07-13-2003, 11:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket


That's what I mean. It's basicly a $15,000 car with an extra $15,000 put into the drivetrain, brakes and suspension. I think most of the public is not interested in a car like that. I am, however.

Kevin
Me too
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Old 07-13-2003, 11:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoso



Under $30K in 3 months? No way!
Wouldn't surprise me a bit. There are all of the folks worried about getting the car in the first or second allocation, and then there are the rest of us that don't care about when we get it, as long as we have a shot. I'm pretty sure I can test drive one at a dealer by fall without having to jump through a bunch of hoops. Over the winter, they'll start to sit on lots for more than a week. I don't think it will be a car that dealers are trying to get rid of at the end of the year, but I think it's entirely possible that they'll be available for just over invoice by the early part of next year. Especially if they tweak more hp/torque or improve the suspension on a MY05 model to stay a step ahead of Mitsu. In that case, you might see 04's going cheap.
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by C-daleRidr


Wouldn't surprise me a bit. There are all of the folks worried about getting the car in the first or second allocation, and then there are the rest of us that don't care about when we get it, as long as we have a shot. I'm pretty sure I can test drive one at a dealer by fall without having to jump through a bunch of hoops. Over the winter, they'll start to sit on lots for more than a week. I don't think it will be a car that dealers are trying to get rid of at the end of the year, but I think it's entirely possible that they'll be available for just over invoice by the early part of next year. Especially if they tweak more hp/torque or improve the suspension on a MY05 model to stay a step ahead of Mitsu. In that case, you might see 04's going cheap.
I remember on evolutionm.com forums when everyone was worried about getting a Evolution because alot of the members were brainwashed by alot of the dealers that joined, they were saying that it was going to be this super limited production car, that was only going to be made for a one year run, but 6 months after its release dealers are starting to have alot of Evo's sitting on their lots, selling for under sticker, and one dealer located in TN, has about 13 sitting on their lot, going for $500 over invoice.

If subaru wants to steal the Turbo 4WD craze thats going on in america right now, their going to meet their demand for any of there high performance sedans and sport wagons coming out, and dealers will be able to work on prices so people will get them into their driveways to meet sales expectations.

On the STI webpage on Subaru's website, it says nothing about the car being a limited production run, neither on Mitsubishi's website it says anything about the Evolution being a limited production car, you would think both manufactures would put that if it was since it would be a selling point, but its not. When Car & Driver did their tests on the Evo and STI they both didnt say anything about either cars being limited production run's, since if they know if it is a limited production run, they will usually mention it, like how they did with the Mazdaspeed protege, Protege MP3 and the Integra Type-R.

Last edited by LinuxGuy; 07-13-2003 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:29 PM   #23
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The dealership here in Boise is a Subaru and Mitsu dealer. I've been keeping my eye on their inventory. They have 3 Evo's and 2 WRX STI's sitting on the lot with $5k markups on them. The dealership did get a silver STI and that one lasted a week but the others have been sitting on the lot for atleast a month. I expect them to be sitting there for a while with prices between $35k to $38k. The one model that seems to be selling well is the WRX with the premium package.
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:44 PM   #24
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I think there's a very subtle difference between a "limited production run" and limited production.

The former is usually about maintaining a vehicle's exclusivity and having demand outstrip supply. The STi has never been touted as such a vehicle.

Limited production (in my book) is where the manufacturer earmarks a certain number of vehicles for sale in a certain market based on what they can either physically produce or what they think they can sell. At the STi's launch it was officially stated that numbers imported into the US would be kept below 5000 per annum. To be honest, I reckon that number's probably about right to satisfy "hardcore" enthusiasts based on the current spec. and the price. Now if they decided to make an STi wagon (unlikely) or start offering options like leather upholstery, moonroof, delete-wing etc. I'm sure they would attract a whole new audience, but I don't think that will happen in the short term.

There's no incentive for SOA to "flood" the market with more STis if they're sitting on dealers lots and can't be shifted for MSRP.
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Old 07-13-2003, 04:33 PM   #25
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Can the folks in California (who seem to be plagued by price-gouging dealerships) buy their cars in other States? or is there a California emissions package that needs to be ordered for these cars?
If California folks can buy their cars out-of-State, and drive it back to California (or have it shipped), I would think the price savings would be worthwhile. Plus, they might have their break-in mileage completed, or near complete, by the time they drove home with the new car. Make arrangements with an out-of-State dealer, and then take a vacation by flying out to pick-up the new car, and drive it back to California; see some of America. There are lots of neat sights to see between California and everywhere else. Bring some oil with you in case you need to do your first oil change on the way.

I am in the Chester County PA area (outside Philadelphia), and the big Mitsubishi dealer (D'Ambrosio) out here always has EVO's sitting on the lot. Recently, Roberts Subaru here in Downingtown PA had a blue/silver STi sitting in their showroom for at least two weeks. I haven't been there in a week or two; maybe its still there. It was priced at MSRP.

I agree with the posters who said that these cars will be available on dealer lots in the future, and will be available for purchase below sticker. This is a niche car which will not (and is not meant to) make Subaru a ton of profit. But, like one poster said, the STi is a great advertising vehicle. Every magazine covered it. Its the fastest thing in its class, and many other classes. The STi is a showroom draw, and a "name recognition", and "respect" vehicle for Subaru. The marketing folks for Subaru did the right thing. This is equivalent (as a showroom draw) to the Corvette ZR1 for Chevy, the Viper for Dodge, the Prowler for Chrysler, etc, etc.
I remember when the DeLorean DMC12 vehicle came out on the market around 1982. I went to see one at a local dealer where I lived in Buffalo/Amherst NY, and I recall the dealer saying that he didn't plan to really sell many of them, but it was a great showroom draw. Obviously John DeLorean wanted to sell cars, but this particular dealer made a good point, that this unusual car was important as a showroom draw, not as a money maker by itself.
I think you get the point.
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