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Old 07-13-2003, 08:29 PM   #1
KiKoBa
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Default And they say you can never go home again... need some help deciding.

So... the time has come... and I have decided that my next car will be a Subaru. I actually owned a Legacy many years ago, and it was very near and dear to my heart, but when the lease was up I no longer needed a vehicle (had moved back home to NYC) so I gave it up. When it was time to get a set of wheels again, I went with a VW GTI because I wanted a sporty hatchback and the WRX was not available at thet time. Now, it seems like there are too many options in the Subaru world.

I test drove an '04 WRX, an '04 Forester XT, and a Baja today and was happy with each of them (though, obviously, the WRX and Forester are more fun than the Baja). Let me tell you my situation, and then perhaps you can send some advice my way.

Aside from the sporty driving element (which they all have... I would wait for the Baja Turbo if that's what I really wanted), what I need is a backpack on wheels... something that I can take hiking/camping, biking, sailing, rockclimbing, skiing, and all the many other outdoor activities I enjoy. I know that each of these vehicles fit this bill in their own way... just as my Legacy did... but does one outshine another when taking in the big picture. I hear the Forester XT, due to it's 2.5 engine, has better power at high altitudes vs. the WRX. Is this noticibly true? The Forester also has a higher ground clearance... but the Baja Turbo is supposed to have the highest of all three when it comes out. Which of the vehicles, if any, has the more rugged suspension for when I tackle old logging roads and other unpaved/precarious routes? Aside from a sportier look, what does the WRX have over the Forester in the way of advantages? In spite of its marketing, does the Baja really offer enhanced versatility vs. the other two? Or, rather, does it limit what you can take with you because of the narrow hole in the switchback pass-through and the lack of cargo security. Basically, I'm looking for the Subaru for all seasons, for all reasons (at the risk of sounding corny... too late). Which would you choose?

I'm hoping to get advice from people who have lived with their vehicles for a little while and have gotten over the honeymoon... though advice from all is more than welcome.

Also... I prefer the '03 look of the WRX. Are there any major advantages that really mean anything (i.e. brakes, suspension, stabilizer bars, etc.) that the '04 has vs. the '03? I know there was a link somewhere that listed all of the features that were new on the '04... but I couldn't seem to find it with the search function. (yes, apparently I'm that stupid). If someone could direct me to that link, that would be a great help.

I know this is a pretty basic and possibly silly post... but it never hurts to ask... and perhaps someone who has lived with their vehicle can pass on some wisdom that can only be gained over time.

Thank you, in advance, for all of your help and advice. I'll take it upon myself to welcome myself back to the Subaru family... and I happy to be home again.

Regards,

Trip
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Old 07-13-2003, 08:48 PM   #2
Turbo X
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The 03 and the 04's WRX is pretty much the same car except the appearance and the price. Since you perfer the look on the 03, you may want to check with your local dealer asap 'cause they're trying to get rid of the 03 so they have rooms for the new shippment of 04 and the STi. My friend just drive a 03 WRX off the dealer's lot like a week ago for little bit less than 23Gs (tax included)with no options on it. (still a sweet deal!) Hope that helps. Late.
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Old 07-13-2003, 09:45 PM   #3
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Well - if you are actually going to be off-roading the car on trails which are much worse than a bad dirt road, I would say get as much ground clearance as you can, which would mean the Baja turbo (Motor trend review said it has 1" more clearance than the non-turbo)

The 2.5L is probably better suited to off-roading (more torque down low than the 2.0L)

as far as altitude goes, a turbocharged engine looses much less than a NA engine.

You should post a question to the Baja and Forester boards - opinions will be biased (face it - we all know the WRX is best )

I want an STi wagon...
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Old 07-13-2003, 11:54 PM   #4
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My other car is a 2000 Jetta VR6 for similar reasons -- the RS just wasn't fast enough for me. But my other other car (which the WRX is replacing, sort of) is a high clearance Toyota 4x4 pickup that I used to drive on roads consisting of rocks the size of bowling balls and larger. So I have a hard time imaging taking any Subaru down anything I don't consider a pretty reasonable road. Then again I grew up almost 10 miles from the nearest paved road, so maybe I have different standards.

Overall, I'd say you sound like the Forester is the car for you. It has a little more room than the Impreza, and better low end torque, and better ground clearance (although once again, if you can't drive over a bowling ball...). So it will be better in the mountains. But you probably wouldn't be disappointed in the WRX wagon -- I intend to use mine for exactly what you want to use a car for. I got it because I may be off to the mountains on the weekends, but I'm on the highway the rest of the week. Plus, I'm not off road nearly as much here as I was when I lived in New Mexico or when I was in Utah a few times a year.

Have you thought about the Impreza TS wagon? It has a 2.5L, better low end torgue. Or, even better, the Forester XT, 2.5L plus turbo? That should take care of all your needs!

I don't know which engine would be better at altitude, I haven't had experience with these engines in the mountains yet (next weekend!) just others -- you feel it in a small engine, but a turbo is able to make up for it some. If you don't mind it screaming all the time in order to shove in the extra air.

The Baja is cute, but it doesn't really seem to me like it has all that much really usable space. It's like a sedan without a trunk lid. I'd rather have a trunk. Or a wagon. Or a pickup with a camper shell. But not in that order.
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Old 07-14-2003, 08:34 AM   #5
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I live in Colorado and I do not notice any "real" loss of power in my WRX wagon. You can easily hold 75-80 going up the Eisenhower pass using the A/C and cruise control

j.
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:10 AM   #6
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I think it comes down to what shape you like your vehicles in. I would not get a BAJA or CRUCK as my wife calls them. Like mentioned, not a lot of usable space. I think the turbo forester is a sleeper and a very nice car. The new body style is quite nice too. If you like the way it looks, and don't mind owning a "compact SUV" then get the forester turbo. I wanted a sport compact car, and I was coming out of a outback. I wanted something I could get to handle very well. I ended up in my 02 wrx and I loved it. It was totalled and I went back to the drawing board. I decided to get another wrx, but an 04 this time. I couldn't afford the STi, and I loved the tightness of the wrx. Here are the differences between 02 and 04

Front end redesign (duh)

Better night vision with new headlights!

The tach and MPH are swapped on the dash. Great for driving, but leads to tickets.

Much nicer seats (different cloth and shape)

Different mirrors (shape change and more black plastic)

Interior plastic is a darker gray color as opposed to bright silver.

No antenea on the outside of the car (very nice)

Color of instuments has changed. (red needles are much better at night)

Different rear suspension (the car might be tighter, but I had to wait 3 months between driving a pickup, so it might just be tighter than the pickup...)

Transmission problems fixed? (rummor has it the studder or shake which my nad many other 02s had is gone, but time will tell)

Different ECU (can't tune it YET)

Lit keyhole (02 didn't have this, but 03 did)

Avaliable premium package with sunroof, heater seats, heater mirror, and heated winshield squiter.

more, but I'll add them when I can remember....

At first I was 50 50 as to which was better, but after owning the 04 for 3 months+ I love the 04 now, no question it is a better car. Not much, but all these things add up, and I am very glad to have the 04 over getting another 02/03.

As for wrx versus forester... thats up to you. I never like forester until the new body that just come out was launched. Now they are nice, and the new turbo makes for a very fast car with a ton of potential... That is up for you, but I went for the wrx because I really wanted a sedan for a change from my outback. I live a very active life, and do everything you listed with no problems in a wrx sedan, but I don't drive on bad dirt raods, just the fun ones that are easily drivable with a car. (no huge ruts or rocks). As for power, when I was in MT with my WRX it was fast enough to have fun.

Good luck!
Ben
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Old 07-14-2003, 12:07 PM   #7
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I'm waiting for Baja T. I ride bike, but I can't lift up my bike (broken shoulder - not much upward movement) to the roof. I don't like hitch, so truck bed suites me the best. I have impreza NA, and in high altitude, it chugs. No punch. Ah need a turbo. B-T comes out with sportshift this summer - you can choose which gear you'll be driving in. Souding from XT owners, 2.5T 1st gear is pretty useless, so I don't think you lose too mcuh by going to WRC feel shifting. Choice was very simple for me...
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Old 07-14-2003, 02:51 PM   #8
KiKoBa
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Thanks for all of the responses so far.

Here's something... when I test drove an XT the other day, I was amazed and how short the uptake was on the clutch. I would hit the friction point having only just come off the floor the slightest bit. When I drove the WRX, with a short throw shifter, it wasn't nearly as sensitive. Though I would, of course, get used to the XT after a few hours on the road, has anyone who owns an XT, or has driven one for an extended period, found it to be particularly tempermental or twitchy in normal day to day driving? I love the speed at which I could shift with the short uptake in spirited driving... but am concerned it would become very tiresome and jumpy during my city commute.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Was this clutch an exception to the norm? As I said, the WRX with short throw, and an OBS and Baja (though those don't really count, I guess), felt much smoother off the line when I wasn't trying to break any landspeed records. Or was it just that I had driven the XT first, and had gotten used to the short uptake by the time I got to the WRX?

Thanks, again, for the advice I've been getting.
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Old 07-14-2003, 04:10 PM   #9
FuJi K
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Default Re: And they say you can never go home again... need some help deciding.

Quote:
Originally posted by KiKoBa
So... the time has come... and I have decided that my next car will be a Subaru. I actually owned a Legacy many years ago, and it was very near and dear to my heart, but when the lease was up I no longer needed a vehicle (had moved back home to NYC) so I gave it up. When it was time to get a set of wheels again, I went with a VW GTI because I wanted a sporty hatchback and the WRX was not available at thet time. Now, it seems like there are too many options in the Subaru world.

I test drove an '04 WRX, an '04 Forester XT, and a Baja today and was happy with each of them (though, obviously, the WRX and Forester are more fun than the Baja). Let me tell you my situation, and then perhaps you can send some advice my way.

Aside from the sporty driving element (which they all have... I would wait for the Baja Turbo if that's what I really wanted), what I need is a backpack on wheels... something that I can take hiking/camping, biking, sailing, rockclimbing, skiing, and all the many other outdoor activities I enjoy. I know that each of these vehicles fit this bill in their own way... just as my Legacy did... but does one outshine another when taking in the big picture. I hear the Forester XT, due to it's 2.5 engine, has better power at high altitudes vs. the WRX. Is this noticibly true? The Forester also has a higher ground clearance... but the Baja Turbo is supposed to have the highest of all three when it comes out. Which of the vehicles, if any, has the more rugged suspension for when I tackle old logging roads and other unpaved/precarious routes? Aside from a sportier look, what does the WRX have over the Forester in the way of advantages? In spite of its marketing, does the Baja really offer enhanced versatility vs. the other two? Or, rather, does it limit what you can take with you because of the narrow hole in the switchback pass-through and the lack of cargo security. Basically, I'm looking for the Subaru for all seasons, for all reasons (at the risk of sounding corny... too late). Which would you choose?

I'm hoping to get advice from people who have lived with their vehicles for a little while and have gotten over the honeymoon... though advice from all is more than welcome.

Also... I prefer the '03 look of the WRX. Are there any major advantages that really mean anything (i.e. brakes, suspension, stabilizer bars, etc.) that the '04 has vs. the '03? I know there was a link somewhere that listed all of the features that were new on the '04... but I couldn't seem to find it with the search function. (yes, apparently I'm that stupid). If someone could direct me to that link, that would be a great help.

I know this is a pretty basic and possibly silly post... but it never hurts to ask... and perhaps someone who has lived with their vehicle can pass on some wisdom that can only be gained over time.

Thank you, in advance, for all of your help and advice. I'll take it upon myself to welcome myself back to the Subaru family... and I happy to be home again.

Regards,

Trip
With all that said...I can say something. Maybe a larger vehicle will suit you... Say Toyota 4Runner Sport w/ the V8 and 5 spd auto. But yea, it depends if you really need a vehicle for those activities or for fun around like a WRX.

Sorry I don't drive nor have a car but my brother always tells me to get a truck, he has a '00 Tundra SR5 4WD extended cab because we go fishing, hunting and other various outdoor activities. hehe I'd get a truck but not at a early age where I'm not settled and stable with a job, I'm only 17!. Those big V8's eat up a lot of gas! I'd get one though because of what I do but maybe later. A Subaru Forester or Baja might get me my activities done but...power is one thing that needs to be considered. One day I just might have to use my Baja Turbo, if I were to have a Baja then, to tow my 22' Bass fishing boat.

If your activities donít involve in a lot of towing and carrying large equipment, you can surely get by from either vehicle choice, WRX, Baja, Forester. I'd get a Baja Turbo if I were to throw stuff in the rear like, well I dunno.

You can't go wrong with either, well maybe a WRX sedan...preferably WRX Sport Wag.
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Old 07-14-2003, 05:28 PM   #10
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I have an 03 WRX Wagon, I mountainbike, camp and kayak. and I have a dog that sits in the back. The wagon is great. I doubt you would be unhappy.
The turbo is great, the bug eye headlights are great and the seats are easier to clean in my opinion than the new 04 ones, which have small mesh holes to trap dust and dirt.

Buy a good roof rack, Yakima's rock, buy a cargo area liner and a bumper cover. I also got a rear diff protector for when i'm diving down ruts, not that that happens much <peace of mind>

The WRX wagon is a good size for me and my stuff, but you should make sure it's cool with you, coz the forrester prolly fits more stuff, but the turbo sure is wicked.

- james
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Old 07-14-2003, 05:45 PM   #11
cjbruce
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Default WRX Wagon and Happy to Have It

I have a WRX wagon that has served well. It happens to be just big enough for my wife and I to stretch out and sleep in the back, though I am 5'6" and she is a few inches shorter. We can also fit our kayak with all the gear for a week (Long Haul foldable). We haven't been out in really rough stuff, but the car handled washboards and ruts in Joshua Tree just fine. I wouldn't try to take it through deep snow.

As far as basic transportation goes, I do not like the premium gas requirement, and the mileage is very poor compared to other small cars its size. It does a fine job for normal commuting and I am *very* happy with it in the rain. It is probably the most confidence-inspiring car I've even driven in slick conditions.

Finally, when it is just you and a twisty road, the car is a blast. For me it doesn't have quite the fun factor of, say, an S-2000 when the pavement is new, smooth, and dry, but as soon as conditions deviate it is amazing. I used to drive logging roads in the middle of nowhere Alaska and though this car has never been there I think it would be the perfect combination of power/weight/surefootedness for those roads.

Take a good look at your requirements and figure out exactly how much space/towing capability you need. If you can fit everything into the WRX wagon, you will love your choice. If not, move up to the Forester. My only problem with the Baja is your stuff is exposed to the elements and to theiving hands. If you live in the country, not a problem. In the city...

All in all, the three Subaru options are different takes on the same chassis. Any of them could possibly work.
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Old 07-14-2003, 06:06 PM   #12
KiKoBa
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It seems, going on specs alone, the Forester only has a few cu. ft. advantage over the WRX (64.1 vs. 61.6). What does that difference equate to in the real world?

The WRX styling, especially on the '03, wins me over every time. Torque and ground clearance seem to pull me in the direction of the Forester. Here's a question, though I kind of already know the answer. When I'm driving up the PCH (for those not familiar, it's a beautiful, twisty road... a Miata's dream... that takes you up and down CA's coast)... will the WRX blow the XT out of the water in the fun factor dept.? Or is it a close race? (I'm not talking about a race between the two... just the joy of driving sensation)

By the way... I should have mentioned earlier that I'm fairly large at 6'3"+. Not that I need a car I can sleep in... I'd rather be out under the stars. If I wanted the backpack on wheels without the fun... I'd definitely go for the Honda Element... probably my second choice after Subaru... but the XT/WRX were just too much fun!
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:44 PM   #13
bclee
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Quote:
Originally posted by KiKoBa
Here's a question, though I kind of already know the answer. When I'm driving up the PCH (for those not familiar, it's a beautiful, twisty road... a Miata's dream... that takes you up and down CA's coast)... will the WRX blow the XT out of the water in the fun factor dept.?
I don't know about the XT, but it was a LOT of fun in our WRX. (We went up the coast to help get it through the 1000 mile break in period.)



The forester is taller and higher off the ground, so it can't handle quite as well. I think you just need to decide whether you want to have more fun on or off pavement. I was looking at a Forester today, and they have more clearance than I gave them credit for in my earlier post. There are roads I know that I would not take my WRX down that I think the Forester would be fine on.

But again, I went for the WRX wagon. But probably as a reaction to how poorly the pickup handles on pavement -- I didn't want to consider anything SUV-like. And I got the toy pickup to replace a Mustang, because I was annoyed at how useless it was on anything but dry pavement. So maybe I'm too reactionary for you to trust my advice!
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by ludecrous
the seats are easier to clean in my opinion than the new 04 ones, which have small mesh holes to trap dust and dirt.
The mesh seat complaint is very true. I eat a muffin (MMMM I love muffins...) every day on my way to work, and the few crumbs I do drop in the 04 won't brush off the seat like in the 02. They must be vacumed up... Butt the cloth is much more comfortable on long trips. It's the perfect cloth for sitting on for a long time, but just not eatting crumby food.

Here are some 04 wrx pics for you....

to start with...
http://www.pbase.com/image/14596969/large

after some changes...
http://www.pbase.com/image/18655212


I used to love my bug eyed beauty, but she ended up looking like this:
http://www.pbase.com/image/18876078

feel free to browse those galleries for other pics of my car on the lot. I am a bug eye convert. I didn't like the 04 look much, even after buying it, but I liked the other things on it enough to switch, and I was considering the resale value of an 04 versus 03. The price difference was less than $500 so I went for the 04. I now love it. I would even go as far to say the new headlights and front end look MUCH BETTER than the bug eyes. I'm not ripping on the bug eyes, I just like the new style better. They just take a while to grow on you. Also after being in the old one when it was totalled there was no way I was getting anything other than a wrx considering how well it held up in the crash. Very safe! I'm not compairing it to other subarus mind you, but other cars I was thinking about replacing it with: MINI S, GTI, Jetta, and other sport compacts.... nothing beats the bang for the buck or safety of the wrx in it's class, and the forrester is the same in it's class.

Good Luck with whatever you decide on. You really can't go wrong with any of the 3. You will love whatever you get so don't worry, I would however recomend that you never test drive, or ride in a STI if you can help it....

Ben
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:17 PM   #15
KiKoBa
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NOTE: I have decided to go with the WRX. I've started a new topic in this forum to focus the advice in another direction. Thank you for all of your help on this thread.
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Old 07-21-2003, 04:02 PM   #16
bclee
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Quote:
Originally posted by bclee
I haven't had experience with these engines in the mountains yet (next weekend!)
Just to follow up: I spent last weekend mostly between 6000 and 8000 ft. The car did great. From a dead stop, below 2000 rpm was roughly like having the A/C on at sea level, maybe a bit worse. Above that, I was having a much easier time than most of the cars (well, SUVs) around me going up hills. Going up 80 to Donner Pass, when an RV would try to pass a semi and bring traffic down to 30mph or less, once it cleared I was right back up to my, um, previous speed while all the SUVs around me were struggling.
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Old 07-21-2003, 04:55 PM   #17
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Ditto in Sequoia National Park between 6000-8000 ft. Turbos are a good thing.
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