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Old 08-28-2003, 12:51 PM   #126
gadget951
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Just talked to Cort and I am number 9 so after the next person he will be able to ship on Tuesday.

So 8Complex call soon and you can get yours out too.

Scott
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Old 08-28-2003, 03:48 PM   #127
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Damn, I went to call in and Cort was out of the office. Well, I hope that he stays a little later in the office tomaro... I don't wake up until 1pm or so. :-/
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Old 08-28-2003, 05:39 PM   #128
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Sorry 8, but the #10 slot has apparently been filled by someone on the MR2 board (at least he posted at 1:52 pm EDT that he was). Hopefully group 2 will pay quickly.

Tim
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Old 08-28-2003, 07:54 PM   #129
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Damn... well did anyone have an idea as to the ETA of the second batch? I think I read that the first batch was going on Tuesday...
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Old 08-28-2003, 09:00 PM   #130
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Call him tomorrow and see if he can add yours to this batch. There should be no reason why he can't.

Scott
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Old 08-28-2003, 09:37 PM   #131
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I think it would be a very reasonable request that all payments by tomorrow noon go out Tuesday. Shouldn't be a big deal to send out 12 or 13 instead of 10.
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:38 AM   #132
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Yeah, hope so.

I was thinking about it tonite, a well... I'm just going to try it just past my turbo in the downpipe since there is already a bung there with just a plug in it and if I get errors, then I'll move it when I get the chance. *shrug* The things I do to get this thing running right.
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Old 08-29-2003, 04:45 AM   #133
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OK, i read the posts but I hope I didn't miss the answer... can the Bosch sensor be installed to run all the time?

My buddy has the Motec meter, with a Bosch sensor (similar sensor I'm assuming) and the manual recommends not to use 100% of the time.

Matt
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Old 08-29-2003, 05:06 AM   #134
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I'm not sure why most of the wideband companies recommend not using the sensors all the time... after all, they ARE all OEM sensors that are out there on existing cars. The NTK sensors are stock on 95 Honda Civic HX (lean-burn) models, and the Bosch sensors are stock Volkswagon components. Personally, I'm going to install mine permanently... even if it does burn out, they're only $30!
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Old 08-29-2003, 12:27 PM   #135
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I put my sensor in the bung in my uppipe- before the turbo. No sensor errors so far. Seems very accurate
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Old 08-29-2003, 12:29 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
I'm not sure why most of the wideband companies recommend not using the sensors all the time... after all, they ARE all OEM sensors that are out there on existing cars. The NTK sensors are stock on 95 Honda Civic HX (lean-burn) models, and the Bosch sensors are stock Volkswagon components. Personally, I'm going to install mine permanently... even if it does burn out, they're only $30!
hmmm, I need to get the part number off the Motec unit, because that particular sensor is around $300.

http://www.motec.com/products/plm/plm.htm

They charge around $1050 for the Motec with the Bosch LSU sensor, and $1350 for the Motec with the NTK UEGO sensor.

Last edited by I am mattjk; 08-29-2003 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:00 PM   #137
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If you read here: http://www.motec.com/products/plm/sensors.htm, Motec says that these sensors only have a life of 500 hours on unleaded fuels!! How would OEMs (VW and Honda) use these sensors if they foul after such a short duration? My old FJO had the same warning, and it used the NTK L1H1 that I believe is used in some Hondas. I never experienced any problems, but I only used it for a total of 20 hours.

I, personally, intend to install the Bosch sensor permanently and replace them when the need arises.

Tim
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:14 PM   #138
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I think those hours quoted by tuning WBO2 kits are for within original spec performance - but am not sure. Both O2 units adverise much longer MTBF on their manufacturer websites. I suspect their accuracy may fall out of original spec before the point where manufacturers consider there to be an error. Lab grade and lab spec performance is less tolerant than the specs required for OEM usage. And the advice on usage of the aftermarket sensors is for those who are using their tuning kits for competition or to make a living - most dynos certainly don't use them much past 500 hours even if they use for only unleaded.

I also can't get my hands around the OEM vs. aftermarket sensors - the OEM are so much less expensive I have to imagine there is some difference other than the manufacturer part number. Certainly tech-edges has tenatively determined some differences.
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:26 PM   #139
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We interrupt your regularly scheduled discussion for the following announcement:
TBeck2000's Innovate LM-1 GB is CLOSED
Just moments ago, I sent the final list of participants to Innovate. We ended up with 36 participants and 38 units purchased Sorry if you didn't get in, but I'm sure Innovate is still willing to sell you an LM-1

Sorry for the interruption.

Tim
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:30 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by TBeck2000
We ended up with 36 participants and 38 units purchased
Can't wait for that CA vote count.
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Old 08-29-2003, 03:39 PM   #141
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Sweet, just got off the phone with Cort and I'm in for delivery next week.

Tim - Forget to tally up an entire board worth of buyers before?
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Old 08-29-2003, 04:05 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
Sweet, just got off the phone with Cort and I'm in for delivery next week.
Great to hear 8, hopefully in time to tune for your event.
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Old 08-29-2003, 04:35 PM   #143
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Yeah... I had about a week to tune before the East Coast Shootout. It's a shame there isn't a stock-block RS-T catagory there... I really think I'd take it. I may not run though since there is no reason and breaking the car 800 miles from home would suck.

At least it'll be a great test for the new wideband setup, though. I'm hoping to pull mid-high 20's for mpg... which'll be a feat since the best I've gotten since putting the Haltech in was 19.7mpg.
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Old 08-29-2003, 09:12 PM   #144
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I just noticed that Innovate has established a message board for discussion of the LM-1:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/InnovateLM1/

I suggest that questions/discussion about the group-buy continue here and that technical questions about the LM-1 or its sensor(s) be directed to that message board.
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Old 08-31-2003, 09:04 PM   #145
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I have been thinking of getting the Ecutek Delta Dash. Could you hook up the aux out of the LM-1 to the rear O2 sensor input on the ECU and be able to data log it that way? It may throw a CEL but it should work if that sensor can be recorded right?

Scott
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Old 08-31-2003, 09:47 PM   #146
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Theorectically yes and possibly just maybe without a CEL.

But the input would need to be scaled to 1 v, calibrated to the stoich the ECU expects and would only report the voltage I don't think the AFR conversion would be accurate. LabJack and a dedicated bung would be a better way with DD.
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Old 09-03-2003, 11:53 AM   #147
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Anyone know the shipping status for the 1st group?
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Old 09-03-2003, 01:31 PM   #148
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So I had found an article somewhere explaining Subaru's o2 sensor... (I wish i remembered the pdf link, it may have even been on this thread) but the ecu expects a certain voltage when it should be reading rich, and it can't go any higher than that, the same goes for the lean reading of the factory wideband... I don't know if you can tell this bad boy to do that, but if you can... then you could probably log through delta dash?

PS: I claim to be an idiot for all of your safety. I'll look some more for that article so you can read it for yourselves...
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Old 09-03-2003, 01:37 PM   #149
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The articles were posted by Jon in this thread. They are regarding the front O2. This particular question was geared towards use a rear O2 bung - like in a cat-delete and fake the 1v NB signal to the ECU. The ECU is less picky about the rear it just wants to see stoich when under certain parameters and could care less what it reads other times.
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Old 09-03-2003, 07:11 PM   #150
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Hehe that's what I get for not rereading the thread... It was the thing that popped to mind when I read the question... Hopefully i didn't mislead anyone!

--fed
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