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Old 09-16-2003, 12:17 PM   #201
2000vfr800
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Yea...that's why when the a/f only changes a little bit around 14.7, the led's jump all over the place.
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Old 09-16-2003, 12:32 PM   #202
turboICE
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Quote:
Originally posted by TBeck2000
It just cracks me up that people try to "tune" using a display like that
Tell me there isn't anyone seriously attempting to tune from those things.

Edit: I do mean while attached to a NB sensor. How much crack would you have to be on to think that it actually tells you anything useful?

Last edited by turboICE; 09-18-2003 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 09-16-2003, 03:16 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally posted by jehcpa
Tell me there isn't anyone seriously attemption to tune from those things.
Do you want to hear the truth or do you want to hear that noone is trying to seriously tune from those things?

Sounds like an idea with the Autometer guage... I actually have an opening in my gauge pod that is currently held by a monkey that could be filled with one of those gauges. I'd probably use a range like 11:1 to 15.75:1, though. It'd extrapolate through the 20 LED's at .25 per LED and actually be pretty accurate.
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Old 09-16-2003, 03:31 PM   #204
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I had the same issue. It would get to the point where it asked where I wanted it installed, but it wouldn't actually install anything, just create the folder under Program Files.

I tried and was able to launch the LMCONFIG.EXE

I found that there is a zip file on the CD that contains everything on the CD. I copied the zip file to my HD, unzipped it, and it installed fine. Funny thing is, after I installed it, the install off the CD worked find.

Very strange, not sure if it was because it needed to be installed off the HD, or if launching LMCONFIG did something to make it work?

Quote:
Originally posted by jehcpa


Innovate are you still out there now that these have been sold? My software will not install either.
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Old 09-16-2003, 03:36 PM   #205
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It's a 3.5mm stereo plug (according to the manual).

I thought maybe it was something special, so I ordered it from Innovative. I can't believe I paid $8 for it, and that was at a reduced rate - normally $15!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by jehcpa
Looking for which wire on the output cable (wish I knew what it was I was buying looks like a 1/8" stereo cable plug) is for which output? Is red output 1 or 2? Ditto for the white wire.

Never mind found it in Appendix A just hadn't read far enough.

Red is output 1.
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Old 09-16-2003, 03:42 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally posted by xr4tic
I can't believe I paid $8 for it, and that was at a reduced rate - normally $15!!!
Hmm.....I guess that's my screwup then. Cort said he was giving it to us at almost half-off and I also thought that it was a special piece. Sorry, I didn't do enough homework to locate a cheaper source. I even remember reading on misterblu's site about the cable, but I guess I didn't pay enough attention. Sorry.

Tim
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Old 09-16-2003, 03:51 PM   #207
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I bought one from them as well, but I figured for the convienence it was decent. Not to mention we were already getting the units at a discounted rate anyway. *shrug*

I just wish this thing came with a manual and set up information regarding the output cable and whatnot. I actually unplugged the 9V battery yesterday and the unit worked fine off just the cigarette lighter. Kinda a stupid design, it should just shut off the 9V battery when it's receiving 12V from the car instead of draining it.
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Old 09-16-2003, 03:55 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally posted by TBeck2000
Hmm.....I guess that's my screwup then. Cort said he was giving it to us at almost half-off and I also thought that it was a special piece. Sorry, I didn't do enough homework to locate a cheaper source. I even remember reading on misterblu's site about the cable, but I guess I didn't pay enough attention. Sorry.

Tim
Nah, I could've checked the on-line manual as well. It's not that big of a deal. I would have been mad had I spent full price though.
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Old 09-16-2003, 04:09 PM   #209
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$8 bucks as a convenience is fine and it wasn't a secret - since it was online (when the manual was online). I just didn't do my due diligence. If I didn't have 10 of these laying around of different lengths I probably wouldn't have minded so much.

I ended up copying the files to the directory - then the install process would go fine just didn't want to overwrite the files. I didn't use the zip file since the dates were different in the zip than on my CD. Didn't check file sizes. The CD dates were 9/8 though - so they were burnt just before shipping. The installer on my CD is definitely bugged. I just hope I am not missing a registry entry that is expected by the program or something.

Cort got back on line at least briefly to give me my tracking number (of course I had received it by then).
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Old 09-16-2003, 04:27 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
I just wish this thing came with a manual and set up information regarding the output cable and whatnot. I actually unplugged the 9V battery yesterday and the unit worked fine off just the cigarette lighter. Kinda a stupid design, it should just shut off the 9V battery when it's receiving 12V from the car instead of draining it.
The manual is on the CD, which is becoming quite common these days.

I just took the CD to work and printed it off there
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Old 09-16-2003, 04:54 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally posted by xr4tic
The manual is on the CD, which is becoming quite common these days.

I just took the CD to work and printed it off there
Yeah, it's still absurd, though. Not everyone keeps a laptop at hand when working on our cars. *shrug*

Heh, not to mention it's kind of hard to get a hard copy of the manual when you have no job and no working printers.
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Old 09-16-2003, 06:32 PM   #212
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Has anyone else noticed how glitchy the bar at the bottom of the screen on the LM-1 unit is? It acts as thought the LCD is bad but the other numbers and letters that appear on the screen look just fine. I have also found it very difficult to get good acurate readings when I make a WOT pull. Usually the A/F ratio number will get stuck on one set ratio (like 15.1 for example) and will hold that until I let off and hit the gas again. If I go 3/4 throttle then it will give an accurate reading most of the time but as soon as I hit it to the floor it freezes?? Sometimes it will do fine but other times it wont. Is it the sensor or is it just the cheaper of the 2 VW sensors? I also noticed when doing a free air calibration that the O2% with go from 20.9 to 20.8 and just keep bouncing between the 2 numbers. I have also managed to get a sensor timing error so far. I thought from the details given about this unit that it would be superior to the others that are availible, but now I am really having some major second thoughts.
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:04 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally posted by 02scoobyWRX
Has anyone else noticed how glitchy the bar at the bottom of the screen on the LM-1 unit is? It acts as thought the LCD is bad but the other numbers and letters that appear on the screen look just fine.

The v1.1 firmware (from the support page) slows down the refresh rate of that bar and helps with the sensor timing error.

I'm running a beta version of the firmware that helps with the sensor timing error even more. I'm sure Klaus will release an improved version of the firmware as soon as he's satisfied with the results.

Either way, the LM-1 is a digital WB which means that if the LM-1 can no longer control the heater (when it overheats, or is cooled very quickly on decel) it will throw an error. Older analog designs will continue working under these conditions but you won't know that they've become less accurate.

The best fix is to move the sensor back as far as you can in the exhaust (before the cat if you have one). Every single person I've spoken with that did this has had good results.

Barring that, Klaus is working on firmware to allow the LM-1 to continue operating under sensor overheat conditions while displaying an "H" on the display to let you know that the sensor isn't as accurate at that time. At this time, he isn't sure how good the accuracy will be when this condition occurs, but they're testing it.

FWIW, the Techedge 2.0 is suffering from the same problem. Users of the Techedge have also had good results from moving the sensor further back. One thing to note is that the TE 2.0 shows error conditions by changing the way a red light blinks on its case . Imagine trying to figure that one out.

Also, the 7057 VW sensor is rumored to be the more robust design of the two available for the Techedge (6066 or 7057). This might be the reason that VW is selling them so inexpensively as there were evidently problems with the original sensors for that application. I believe they added more shrouding around the ceramic cell.

I'm still quite certain that you've purchased the best inexpensive wideband available. It'll just be a bit of a learning curve until everyone knows how to operate them well.

Regards,
Jon

Last edited by misterblu; 09-17-2003 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 09-17-2003, 03:00 AM   #214
8Complex

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Quote:
Originally posted by misterblu
Barring that, Klaus is working on firmware to allow the LM-1 to continue operating under sensor overheat conditions while displaying an "H" on the display to let you know that the sensor isn't as accurate at that time. At this time, he isn't sure how good the accuracy will be when this condition occurs, but they're testing it.
Rock on! I think I made this suggestion a few pages back in the post, and I love to see a company that actually listens and reasonably considers things.
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Old 09-17-2003, 05:47 PM   #215
Realbigstauf
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Default Sensor location

Got my LM-1 today and am looking at location choices for the sensor. Running TXs uppipe and downpipe and am considering using the rear O2 location. I read the instruction about simulating a NB sensor by connecting the OE black wire to the analog output 1 of the meter. Apparantly, the three other wires should be disconnected and safely tucked away. Doesn't the heater wire need to remain live though? Will this install affect the infamous CEL?

How have you guys done the install so far?

Is this a good location? I understand that installing the bung at the end of the downpipe would be better.

Eventually, I am confident we will have integration with the UTEC, but anybody there yet?

TIA,

Brian
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Old 09-17-2003, 06:27 PM   #216
turboICE
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The CEL should be eliminated by the low level filter referred to which is the same thing as the MIL eliminator does.

You will get a heater CEL if it is not connected or the circuit loaded.

I am working on figuring out how to load the heater circuit without actually heating anything.
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:45 AM   #217
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Default Sensor wiring

Thanks for the reply.

Our analog out cables have the red, white and ground wires. Can you tell me which wires you connected to the stock NB sensor. I have not check with a meter, but I am assuming red to black on sensor, copper ground to earth (body)and white to white ground on sensor? Just curious where you tucked the NB sensor assuming you left the heater wire atttached?

Thanks again,

Brian
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Old 09-18-2003, 10:25 AM   #218
turboICE
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Red wire from output through the filter to B17 on ECU harness white wire. Ground to ground.

White wire from output is for a second output. In your case it will go to UTECs future AFR input.

There is a link in this thread several times from misterblu I think that will make it much clearer with pictures and such.
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Old 09-18-2003, 10:27 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally posted by jehcpa
Red wire from output through the filter to B17 on ECU harness white wire. Ground to ground.

White wire from output is for a second output. In your case it will go to UTECs future AFR input.

There is a link in this thread several times from misterblu I think that will make it much clearer with pictures and such.

http://lagunamiata.home.att.net/lm-1.htm

HTH,
Jon
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Old 10-01-2003, 09:17 PM   #220
Turbo Datsun Z Car
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Boy.... did this thread die, or what??
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Old 10-01-2003, 09:37 PM   #221
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Still using mine and it's running well. Awaiting a remote monitor unit, though... mine stays hidden under the passenger seat 98% of the time. *shrug*
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Old 10-04-2003, 07:31 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
Still using mine and it's running well. Awaiting a remote monitor unit, though... mine stays hidden under the passenger seat 98% of the time. *shrug*
Same here... mine stays in the glove box. Well I guess no news is good news. Don't see any more complaints, so I guess everyone is happy with their units...

have a good one guyz
joel
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Old 10-04-2003, 09:43 AM   #223
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Eh, its working fine I suppose. I am already having to replace the sensor that I got, so maybe I just got ahold of a defective one?? I got probably 600 or so miles on it and the ceramic element just rattles around in side. So I am waiting for a new sensor and hopefully the A/F ratio reading will be a bit more accurate. I will just be glad when I can graph the A/F ratio .vs RPMs, cause right now I am just guessing at where I need to trim, which is kind of dumb in my opinion. I am hoping that they dont release the aux. input for the $199 they have listed as I can purchase a LabJack for less than that and I can log all the data into my DeltaDash logs. Oh well time will tell I suppose.

-Matt
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Old 10-04-2003, 04:06 PM   #224
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If you've got a particular spot in the map you're working on, you can pretend to have a load dyno by holding a speed and then using the brake pedal to load up the car. You'll have to increase the throttle to get it up to the load you are trying to tune and then adjust your braking to stay at that speed & load. It's hell on brakes, though, so hopefully you've got at least a set of pads waiting for you after tuning a car like that. One point won't hurt, but I've done an entire lower (sub-atmospheric) map like that before.
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Old 10-06-2003, 12:54 PM   #225
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Just thought id throw this link out here, seems like its got some nice features...
(quote from site)
PERCY'S INDICATOR ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO MONITOR TWO CYLINDERS AT ONCE ALLOWING OBSERVATION OF FRONT/BACK OR LEFT/RIGHT BANKS OF THE ENGINE. IT ALSO SUPPLIES A DIFFERENTIAL READING, ALLOWING YOU TO MATCH SEPARATE CYLINDERS PERFECTLY.

http://www.percyshp.com/digextemin.html
Idont know anything about it i just came across it and thought all yall could rip it to shreds, praise its existance, ect...
Trent
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