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Old 07-19-2003, 02:13 AM   #1
944 turbo guy
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Default Do ya' ever wish we had a 7th gear?

So you just got your Vishnu, Prodrive, Godspeed, whoever youworship tuner, ECU-exhuast-performance kit installed, and you're sweeping past 168 and you just want to shift ,...yes,..again into 7th gear?!! WOW,..like when the F1 cars at INDY on the back straight go into 7th gear,..and your spine tingles,....

Think about it,.with 340 @ the wheels,..The sti could push a slightly talled 7th gear,.put the revs back in the hp and tq curve.

I find myself wanting to shift into a talled gear now !!

I'm not trying to take anything away from Prodrive's great design,.but could you imagine if we had gotten the UK and Japan 5th and 6th gears,.( shorter) ??

Just a late night thought----

944 turbo guy

180 mph STI @ like 6400 rpms

Oh and before anyone starts "yeah rightin' a 180 mph STI,.there is a thread on this forum of a guy in Thailand maybe with a 460 hp @ wheels STI that several magazines( over there) tested and clocked at 182 mph. YEP !! Anyway,.good night on that note.....

mw
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Old 07-19-2003, 03:12 AM   #2
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For everyday driving 7 gears would have the suck. You'll be shifting every two seconds and who runs 180 mph on a regular basis anyway? Who here can run 180mph at all?

-faast
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Old 07-19-2003, 05:56 AM   #3
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yes, Be real nice to cruise at 75+ mph w/o running high rpm.

Or better yet offer a wide ratio pattern in the 6spd and call it good.
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Old 07-19-2003, 07:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by FaastLegacy
Who here can run 180mph at all?
...raises hand...

TBH, high-speed straightline runs aren't that interesting. The scenery goes by a little faster. You have to make sure your inputs are steady and clean. You leave yourself lots of braking room. And that's about it. There is some mythos about high speed driving that I subscribed to before I actually experienced it, and then cancelled my subscription after losing that particular virginity. I think it's like drugs - because it's so illegal in the States, it becomes more inherently interesting than it actually is.

I'd easily give up all speeds above about 130mph in exchange for more handling and hustle out of corners in the mountains and track. IMHO.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 07-19-2003, 09:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by FaastLegacy
who runs 180 mph on a regular basis anyway? Who here can run 180mph at all?

-faast
Heh. Move to Germany. Maybe not 180mph, but I used to cruise at 125mph or so, and I'd still get passed like I was standing still.

I'm so use to it driving at highspeeds, 80 mph seems slow.

Like shirokuma says it's probably cause of how illegal it is stateside. I don't really care anymore. I cruise at 85-90 now..more to keep road noise down and to save gas.

Rather have a nice handling car with quick acceleration then a top speed monster.
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Old 07-19-2003, 11:56 AM   #6
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from what people have been saying, a slightly taller gear box would be nice... so there isn't a 2-3 shift from 0-60 and you have a slightly higher top speed... someone was saying that 1st gear seemed exceptionally short, just b/c the STi has so much power that you barely use it.
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Old 07-19-2003, 12:35 PM   #7
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anything above 130 loks the same
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Old 07-19-2003, 12:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by FaastLegacy
For everyday driving 7 gears would have the suck. You'll be shifting every two seconds and who runs 180 mph on a regular basis anyway? Who here can run 180mph at all?

-faast

I have never understood why people think they have to shift thru every gear just because they have them.

I have even seen people downshift from 5 to 2, by putting in the clutch and moving the gear box to 4 then 3 then 2.

If I'm in lazy street traffic in my WRX 5 I shift from 1 to 3 to 5, or 1 2 4, or something similar all the time.

Futher: If you double clutch these upshifts (yes) they are really smooth, almost like a good automatic.

This is esp. useful with 3 passengers as less shifting makes for a very smooth ride.

As for the STI, it seems like what it needs is an 8000 rpm redline,
but maybe that's mechanically impossible with the current engine/pistons?
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Old 07-19-2003, 03:51 PM   #9
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Nope motor takes 8K easy. I did the 3-4-3 shift at the strip and the car just went "Waa Waa Waa" of bouncing on the limiter w/o any valve float or anything like that....

I can't wait for a good ECU crack (reflash) to come out with a 8K redline.
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Old 07-19-2003, 04:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do ya' ever wish we had a 7th gear?

Quote:
Originally posted by 944 turbo guy
So you just got your Vishnu, Prodrive, Godspeed, whoever youworship tuner, ECU-exhuast-performance kit installed, and you're sweeping past 168 and you just want to shift ,...yes,..again into 7th gear?!! WOW,..like when the F1 cars at INDY on the back straight go into 7th gear,..and your spine tingles,....

Think about it,.with 340 @ the wheels,..The sti could push a slightly talled 7th gear,.put the revs back in the hp and tq curve.

I find myself wanting to shift into a talled gear now !!

I'm not trying to take anything away from Prodrive's great design,.but could you imagine if we had gotten the UK and Japan 5th and 6th gears,.( shorter) ??

Just a late night thought----

944 turbo guy

180 mph STI @ like 6400 rpms

Oh and before anyone starts "yeah rightin' a 180 mph STI,.there is a thread on this forum of a guy in Thailand maybe with a 460 hp @ wheels STI that several magazines( over there) tested and clocked at 182 mph. YEP !! Anyway,.good night on that note.....

mw
some longer deration cams will help that.... easy to move up the power band then change the gears. I dont know why you would want (shorter?? i cant remember either) gears. I would be looking at the taller jdm gears.
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Old 07-19-2003, 04:52 PM   #11
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Before WRC rules went into effect, the Escort Cosworth Group A cars had 7 speed H-pattern dog boxes. I don't know of any other 7-speed H pattern applications. Since the Escort Cosworth had a longitudanal engine as well, you might be able to fit one of those old boxes with a diferent bellhousing/input shaft ...
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Old 07-19-2003, 09:52 PM   #12
944 turbo guy
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Default A gear for every day of the week,...

Well I guess I learned not to post anything after I have had some beer,.......

Last week I raced an m5 from 45 mph to 150(147), and twice I stayed 3 cars in front of him, from 45-150.

M5,...4000 lbs, 394 hp?365ft lbs,..talled 4,5, and 6th and talled final drive,..do the math !!

944 tg
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Old 07-20-2003, 08:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Well I guess I learned not to post anything after I have had some beer
yeah..6 gears is plenty!
And on the 7th you rest!!
If I was concerned much about gas mileage, this car wouldn't have been the choice. And if it had another gear to go faster it would be overkill anyway.
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Old 07-20-2003, 01:33 PM   #14
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You should never need to double clutch an upshift. You just wait a little longer for everything to slow down and it all works good.
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Old 07-20-2003, 02:04 PM   #15
strangerq
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Quote:
Originally posted by reks
You should never need to double clutch an upshift. You just wait a little longer for everything to slow down and it all works good.
As you implied....unless you don't want to wait a little longer. ....
Anyway, the point is that some drivers don't understand that having more gears doesn't necessarily require more shifting in day to day driving.......also, I assumed the 7 speed request was facetious.
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Old 07-21-2003, 12:24 PM   #16
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Default Skip Shifting

Even during break-in you can get by on 2nd 4th and 6th and still get close to 100mph. Never need to touch 1st, 3rd and 5th. (Granted, except for steep hills.)
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Old 07-21-2003, 01:00 PM   #17
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I have the JDM 6MT and it has a much shorter 5th and 6th than the US 6MT, I find myself trying to shift into 7th every so often, I wish it had one as a cruising gear. Generally on the streets around here that I drive on that are 35-40 limit I just shift from 1-3-5.
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Old 07-21-2003, 03:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Do ya' ever wish we had a 7th gear?

Quote:
Originally posted by 944 turbo guy
...
I'm not trying to take anything away from Prodrive's great design...

If you are implying here, that Prodrive designed the gearbox, it was actually Porsche.
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Old 07-21-2003, 05:44 PM   #19
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mine stops at 158.1MPH in 5th at 8000rpm in 1.25 miles from a standing start. 6th gear would be nice.
the same day another TypeRA but with higher gearing and 440BHP managed 170.7MPH in 1.25 miles, it was still pulling. This car does 1/4 in 11.66s.

It takes a huge power increase to get an impreza up around 180MPH.

7 speed boxes are a pain in the arse for road use, 6 speeds are about the sensible limit. The WRC escort did use a 7 speed, but not for very long as the drivers hated it, so they went back to a 6 speed.
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Old 07-22-2003, 12:17 PM   #20
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Don't forget the logistic of making a usable shift pattern. Right now, you can have a standard H-pattern whereby you can go from neutral to any gear simply by feel (for example, 3rd is straight up, 6th is right and back). With a 7th gear and an H-pattern, you may not be sure whether you are going into 5th or 7th. You'd could have some sort of forced sequentiality (similar to how some shifters do not allow a 5-to-Reverse shift), but that just pushes the point - you will need some sort of sequential shifting so that you do not get your gears confused.
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Old 07-22-2003, 12:27 PM   #21
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I don't wish for a 7th gear, but a taller 6th gear. Topping out 5th is pretty fast, at ~138. I would much rather be turning 2500 rpm at 75 mph than 3000 rpm. I'm sure this would help the fuel economy also.

I can understand if there are some track drivers out there that like the shorter gearing above 138, but I'd gladly trade acceleration above 138 for highway mileage above the 21-22 that I'm getting now.
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Old 07-22-2003, 06:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSoldier


Heh. Move to Germany. Maybe not 180mph, but I used to cruise at 125mph or so, and I'd still get passed like I was standing still.

I'm so use to it driving at highspeeds, 80 mph seems slow.

Like shirokuma says it's probably cause of how illegal it is stateside. I don't really care anymore. I cruise at 85-90 now..more to keep road noise down and to save gas.

Rather have a nice handling car with quick acceleration then a top speed monster.
I'll second that vote...as I was goinig to say the exact same thing.
Going max speed in a car doesn't interest me any more. Its boring mostly as telephone poles and so forth just become blurs to avoid hitting.

I'll trade top end HP & all out speed for low end torque & quickness/top gear acceleration any day. Top it off with a healthy dose of useable handling prowess (not too sharp or harsh) as well as superman brakes, and I'm all smiles.

For top speed thrills I ride my road bike in a crouched position across flat land at 22+mph or down hill at 30+ mph as the wind sucks tears out my ducts and the ground comes up so fast that by the time you notice an object in the road at 15 feet out, its already 5 feet behind you. Big fun is racing down the shutdown GW Parkway last year during the annual BikeDC event and seeing my trip computer register 32.0 MPH (!) just before I hit the brakes, and avoided running into a motorcycle cop.

On my bike if I wreck I'll have some skin to regrow and maybe a broken bone or two and a dinged but relateively easy to repair/replace bike ($6K). But do the same in a car ($32K) and I have alot more to worry about than abrasions or an out of true rim.

I'll pass on seven gears, but give me five or six with a super low 0-60, 50-80 and/or 0-100-0 time.

- Janq
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Old 07-22-2003, 06:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Skip Shifting

Quote:
Originally posted by ScoobyAficionado
Even during break-in you can get by on 2nd 4th and 6th and still get close to 100mph. Never need to touch 1st, 3rd and 5th. (Granted, except for steep hills.)
I wish someone had posted that factoid months ago for new owners.

I had to learn the hard way that break in is near impossible without using a 2,4,6 skip shift pattern. Doing so its very effective even with the AC on.

- Janq
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Old 07-22-2003, 11:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Re: Do ya' ever wish we had a 7th gear?

Quote:
Originally posted by Pre-diddy



If you are implying here, that Prodrive designed the gearbox, it was actually Porsche.
Ok,..well if you go and do more home work, you'll see that the two companies have swapped engineers for the last 8 years, and that Richards background with Porsche go waaayyyy back. Yeah a Porsche engineer may have put his name on it this time, but the original design,....came from a 1993 Legacy Rally design used to win their first 4 rallies. Long before "Prodrive was Prodrive, and when Subaru was hungry to win.


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Old 07-22-2003, 11:22 PM   #25
944 turbo guy
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Default Prodrive and Porsche..

There is a very interesting article in RACE CAR ENGINEERING about the connection between both motorsport department and all the technology sharing thats taken place in the last 6-8 years.
I am refering to my last post.

Like I said, Prodrive designed trans.

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