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Old 07-20-2003, 03:14 PM   #1
hatchy
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Default Flash cruise control light (NO CEL!)

I installed some Borla headers last night on the STI and about 1/2 mile of driving, I noticed that the Cruise Control Light started flashing, but NO CEL, so no codes to pull.

I also noticed that my car is running much leaner after the CCL started flashing. My SCES reports a lambda at 1.38, which converts to something like 19.x:1 AFR!

When I shut the car down, and restart it, the flashing CCL goes away, but comes back shortly after. Car seems to drive fine, but I am freaked out by the Lambda readings.

I'll check the vacuum hoses and zip tie them because the CEL + flashing CCL seems to point to that, but I am having a different problem because I am not getting a CEL.

Maybe I damaged the O2 sensor when I removed it? Wouldn't that throw a CEL? Any suggestions?

Does the STI use the same FRONT O2 sensor as the WRX?
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:23 PM   #2
Qbushido
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the head tech at my dealer is having the same problem after putting in a downpipe. Subaru techs are working on a fix is all I know.
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:25 PM   #3
hatchy
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Really? Just flashing cruise control light and NO check engine light? Usually, it is just CEL (not flashing) with the downpipe.
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:31 PM   #4
Qbushido
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exactly the same issue that you are having.
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:32 PM   #5
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how did the sound change with the borla headers? Any dyno #'s?
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:38 PM   #6
hatchy
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Dude, I've had 3 miles since the headers. And 2 miles of that is with the CCL, so no, I haven't opened it up at all

It does should different. A little louder, and a little lumpier at idle.
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:38 PM   #7
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Can you tell me the name of the dealer? I wanna give them a call and "exchange notes".
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Old 07-20-2003, 05:36 PM   #8
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I had my cruise light come on right after I added the 7x3" velocity stack to my stock air box, while there were no lights with the silencer removed by itself...I guess the velocity stack made a big enough difference to be noticed by the ECU...it was definitely noticable with the butt-dyno.

After a bit of driving...maybe 2-3 restarts and driving...the light went away and never came back. I guess the ECU learned to live with it.
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Old 07-20-2003, 05:54 PM   #9
hatchy
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Is this on a STI or RS? Did you car drive weird or anything?

Quote:
Originally posted by G-shock
I had my cruise light come on right after I added the 7x3" velocity stack to my stock air box, while there were no lights with the silencer removed by itself...I guess the velocity stack made a big enough difference to be noticed by the ECU...it was definitely noticable with the butt-dyno.

After a bit of driving...maybe 2-3 restarts and driving...the light went away and never came back. I guess the ECU learned to live with it.
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Old 07-20-2003, 05:56 PM   #10
hatchy
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As a test, I disconnected the SCES and within about 5 mins, the CEL came on along with the flashing CCL.

But when I reconnected ther SCES to read the code, SCES reports that there were no faults!

I've checked the hose and zip tied most of them, but how do you get to the ones that are way down under the alternator?
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Old 07-20-2003, 06:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by hatchy
Is this on a STI or RS? Did you car drive weird or anything?

STi.
It was wierd...it felt faster!
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Old 07-20-2003, 06:46 PM   #12
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Cool. How many miles did you drive before the light went away? I am concerned because it is behaving differently now.. now I get both the CEL and CCL.
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Old 07-20-2003, 07:11 PM   #13
G-shock
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Quote:
Originally posted by hatchy
Cool. How many miles did you drive before the light went away?
It went away in about a day, maybe less...minimal milage...like I said, 2-3 short trips and then during one it just went out.

I tried simply restarting it at first a couple of times, but that did nothing, only driving it helped. Mind you I drive "peddle to the metal" about 90% of the time, so whatever program it tries to learn when something changes its probably the one that requiers the most air...maybe that helped.
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:42 AM   #14
hatchy
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UPDATE:

I now know why I got the CCL but not CEL. I have the SECS unit installed on my car, and apparently, it blocks the CEL. I am not sure why, I'll ask PSI3, but when I disconnected the SECS unit, I got the CEL along with the flashing CCL within 2 miles of normal driving.

I have also zip tied or hose clamped all of the hoses connected to the "problem" blue T. Didn't help.

Any other suggestions, please?
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:51 AM   #15
G-shock
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To all my efforts and searching through the STi service manual...I have it downloaded...I couldn't find one frikin reference of the cruise control light relating to anything else but the cruise control system!!! No airflow, no engine management, nothing!!! And I know when the light came on it was related to the velocity stack, or better yet the increased airflow in some way.at least that is the only conclusion I have at this point.
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Old 07-21-2003, 01:25 PM   #16
zacek
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I ran out of gas during a canyon run and I got:

- CEL (P0230)
- Flashing Cruise Control Light (CCL)
- Flashing Low Fuel Light (LFL)

What is a P0230, never seen that!
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Old 07-21-2003, 01:53 PM   #17
G-shock
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Quote:
Originally posted by zacek
...What is a P0230, never seen that!...
According to the STi service manual...

DTC P0230 "Fuel Pump Primary Circuit"

The diagnostic proceedure section says that if it was out of gas...

"DTC may be recorded
due to the
idle running of fuel
pump at out of gas."

...so I guess your OK! Reset the ECU to clear all DTC codes.

Last edited by G-shock; 07-21-2003 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by hatchy
UPDATE:

I now know why I got the CCL but not CEL. I have the SECS unit installed on my car, and apparently, it blocks the CEL. I am not sure why, I'll ask PSI3, but when I disconnected the SECS unit, I got the CEL along with the flashing CCL within 2 miles of normal driving.

I have also zip tied or hose clamped all of the hoses connected to the "problem" blue T. Didn't help.

Any other suggestions, please?
Disconnect the SECS unit and get the code pulled/read with an ODB scanner at an Autozone or similar parts store...they usually do it for free.
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:25 PM   #19
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ok, so it seems that the flashing CCL is triggered by some types of CEL's, we still do not know what class/types though, but definitely some conditions will trigger that.
Maybe severe Trouble Codes that could affect emissions will trigger the CCL. The downside to this is that while the CCL is on that blinking mode the actual cruise control does not work.
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:36 PM   #20
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I put in a downpipe and exhaust, cel and ccl came on. CCL does flash, been like this for a month now, got it scanned when it first happened, it was from the o2 not getting a good ground. I have been told that grounding this better will eliminate it, no power loss however. Just an irritation....
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:46 PM   #21
hatchy
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More info.

I can't get an appt with the dealer, so I am going to try a few shops, including autozone/pepboys and see if they can pull the code.

It is possible that when I removed the O2 sensor, I may have screwed up a wire or two. There are no obvious breaks, and visually, the wire is flawless. The reason I suspect this is because I am noticing a weird pattern with the Lambda reading on my SCES unit. Basically, it measures the air fuel ratio. Normally, it is 0.80 (WOT) to 1.10 (snap the throttle shut), but normally, it is around 1.0.

Anyway, what I have noticed is that if I cruise at the same speed for a little while (~1-2 minutes) the Lambda starts to climb from around 1.0 to 1.38. 1.38 Lambda converts to slightly less than 20:1 AFR!!! That is extremely lean. The climb is very linear, it doesn't jump to 1.38, it climbs at a steady rate and there is no noticable performance at all. Since I don't have a EGT, I am not actually sure if the car is actually running leaner, or if the sensor is just wrong. Once I let off the throttle, it starts to drop back down to ~1.0 almost instantly, and if I get back on the throttle right away, it will go back up to 1.38. This cycles repeats once every 3-5 minutes. Car drives fine.

Question 1:

I am going to get the code pulled, but would love you hear what you think if this?

Question 2:

(Will ask this in the FFI forum, too)

The O2 sensor is a 4 wire unit. Power, Ground, Signal account for 3 of the 4 wires. What is the 4th wire? Heater? If a wire is broken and the ECU stops seeing a valid signal from the O2 sensor, what happens? Does the ECU see it as all lean (1.38 lambda) or does it readit as full rich (0.75 lambda)?

Thanks..

PS: Borla headers == a$$.
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:54 PM   #22
hatchy
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The Autozones around here won't pull the code, and Pep Boys wants $90 to do it.
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Old 07-21-2003, 04:07 PM   #23
LESLIEx317537
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Wow, I'm starting to think this car is more like my computer than my current car I'm selling.
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Old 07-21-2003, 04:13 PM   #24
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headers = LEAN.

you NEED engine management with headers.
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Old 07-21-2003, 04:36 PM   #25
dlowman
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Quote:
Originally posted by LESLIEx317537
Wow, I'm starting to think this car is more like my computer than my current car I'm selling.
Yeah at this time I would try a reboot
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