Subwoofer box made out of pine OK?

Heather · 07-20-2003, 10:15 PM

I read through the DIY subwoofer enclosure information. It says MDF or Birch- heavy and expensive. Can I make my subwoofer enclosure out of pine instead? If not, why? Pine is lighter and cheaper. Will the subwoofer sound equally as good in a pine box as in a MDF box? What kind of sound problems will I have with my woofer in a pine box, if any?

I really want to buy a pre-made box at Circuit City, but my husband really wants to build one. Will it be just as good hand built, out of pine, as one I can buy pre-built?

Thanks,
Heather

il96 · 07-20-2003, 11:13 PM

MDF and pressed cardboard do not flex as well as wood, and do not resonate as well. This makes a box solid for better sound. Besides a wooden box will just crack from road vibrations, heat, cold, moisture and all the thumping your sub is going to make.
If you don't want MDF or plywood, use fiberglass.
Oh yeah, to make sure your subwoofer sounds the best, you must find the box that fits the specs. There are online box calculators where you enter speaker data, and get the box volume. If CC has a built box that matches your calculations or the woofer manufacturer's recommended box, buy it, if not check out www.SubZoneUSA.com they make nice boxes, but they are so damn heavy...

netZ · 07-20-2003, 11:14 PM

do yourself a favor... pine is good for coffins...

mdf is acoustically superior to most inexpensive woods for subwoofer enclosures. pine and other cheap particle boards etc will absorb moisture and swell up. also some types of particle boards will let air out.

how much can you possibly save by going to pine for a small sub box? not much... go with mdf!

unless you have a full set of wood power tools, maybe it's more cost effective to buy a pre-built box for your sub(s).

netZ

dsmperformance · 07-20-2003, 11:14 PM

No way...
Go get atleast 3/4" MDF to fabricate a subwoofer box. Pine is really soft and will flex really bad and sound quality will suffer big time. You would be surprised how enclosure design affects sound quality. Also, you want to keep the enclosure as air tight as possible and only vent to woofer recommendations. Airspace is another issue, follow the mfg airspace requirements for the sub.

All you need is 1 sheet of MDF for your enclosure. Call around and find the best price, should be around $20. Another tip, while you are at the hardware store, buy a tube of liquid nails and a package of 1.5" drywall screws to fasten all your joints.

Heather · 07-21-2003, 10:29 AM

On the DIY subwoofer enclosure document it says, "MDF or birch is the best." So I bought Birch- real wood! Yes he is building it to the specs of my subwoofer .75 cubic feet internal space. He works as a Civil Engineer and has many years of drafting experience, so the box was an easy thing for him to design.

Next question: Is there any benefit to covering the box with the fuzzy material found on pre-made boxes? Or should I just paint it?

Heather

ruiner · 07-21-2003, 10:43 AM

No benefit to carpeting, just aesthetics. For an auto subwoofer I would have built from MDF due to real wood's ability to absorb moisture, humidity, etc. For a home, birch is fine, for an auto MDF is always best.

Chad

JT Clark · 07-21-2003, 10:44 AM

Fuzzy material = carpet

Cover it with whatever you want. That part is all for looks.

elsanto · 07-21-2003, 06:30 PM

MDF isnt all that expensive either.. last time i bought 3/4" was 5.00 for a 4x6 (the big sheets i think thats the size at least, i had to cut it to get it in my wagon)

Heather · 07-21-2003, 07:15 PM

I am trying hard to understand the benefit of MDF. Yes MDF and Birch cost the same, so price is not a factor in my decision. MDF is wood with glue and sawdust pressed together, much like particleboard. The argument that MDF is better in humidity and moisture is false since it is also wood and will absorb moisture just as readily as any other wood. When I flex a piece of MDF it flexes way more then a piece of birch at the same thickness (3/4"), therefore the argument that MDF is superior because it flexes less is also false. I just found birch more aesthetically appealing then MDF with it dusty messy wood. Am I missing something about MDF here? I am really trying to understand it's benefit over birch.

Thanks, Heather

fej · 07-21-2003, 07:29 PM

MDF is the way to go for the reasons previously mentioned .. mainly the higher resistance to flexing and the lower likelihood of absorbing moisture and warping that MDF has over "natural" woods.

I bought two half sheets for like $11 or something at home depot. You have come this far don't skimp now!

Good luck
Fej

twhawky · 07-21-2003, 08:20 PM

mdf has much more glue and is pressed together at a much higher psi than normal particle board and a greater density than any other material except hdf (hard to find and very expensive) almost water resistant at least good mdf will do this when you get a good mdf box and tap on it with somthing it will sound almost like metal
most DB dragger don't carpet because it has a tendance to muffle the sound. but fo the average daily driver it doesn't matter

BryanH · 07-21-2003, 10:44 PM

MDF is worlds apart from Birch plywood for all of the reasons mentioned here.

The density of MDF makes it not resonate to the woofer. This means better bass in both volume and frequency as the enclosure provides no coloration.

As for the moisture/humidity...MDF does not really absorb water like plywood does. The voids in plywood will actually act like a sponge and over time plywood will swell so much so that 3/4 in. dado cuts I have made while making book cases dont really need much more than a thin strip of glue to hold them securely as the plywood will swell and really fill the dado in for a nice tight fit. MDF does NOT do this as there are no voids in the product and the glue used to hold the product together is actually an epoxy and water resistant. But be sure to use at least 5/8 thick for an 8 or 10 and definently 3/4 for anything larger. And make sure to include adequate bracing inside the box.

As for the carpet/paint...I do whatever matches the interior.

Heather · 07-22-2003, 10:16 AM

I guess MDF is the way to go. Okay you guys convinced me

Odd the way every document on subwoofer enclosures I have found says birch or MDF, and shows no preference to either.

What about Infinity Basslink, I mean it's enclosed in plastic- light weight flimsy plastic! How acoustical could that be? We did buy it and return it thinking the sound quality was not as clear as a 10" in a sealed box, but most people here on the club love Basslink.
Just food for thought.

Heather

JT Clark · 07-22-2003, 10:33 AM

I've read the same things about birch that you have Heather. I don't really have the time to test it out though. MDF will not dissapoint though. The basslink is not bad. Remember that a lot of guys here are not really audiophiles though.

BryanH · 07-22-2003, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heather
What about Infinity Basslink, I mean it's enclosed in plastic- light weight flimsy plastic! How acoustical could that be? We did buy it and return it thinking the sound quality was not as clear as a 10" in a sealed box, but most people here on the club love Basslink.Just food for thought.

Most people leave the stock stereo in there dash...for these people the Basslink is a great upgrade.

bunot · 07-23-2003, 03:52 PM

just go with birch plywood, you will be fine. birch is 2X llighter than mdf. mdf is has better acoustical properties, but not by much. i have a birch plywood box for a 15" dual voicecoil JL audio sub and the thing pounds! if you put some cross-bracing and reinforcing, your box will still be lighter and just as good as an MDF box.

i was faced with the same questions before, but after i spoke to a local audio installer (who's been doing this for 20 yrs.), he told me birch is a more practical option.

jason

robmarch · 07-23-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heather
What about Infinity Basslink, I mean it's enclosed in plastic- light weight flimsy plastic! How acoustical could that be?

it's not going to compete with a solidly built box with a great sub and a powerful amp. But, casting in plastic does allow for a pretty stiff box with low weight. Plastic lets you put more material where it's needed to maximize stiffness at a lower weight.

I wouldn't use pine, but could see an advantage to either MDF or birch plywood, depending on how much weight is a factor to you.

Heather · 07-23-2003, 05:01 PM

I went back to the store to look at MDF and man does it flex

I decided to stick with my Birch plywood and just give it a good coat of paint to seal it from the moisture

Very satisfied with my decision. Can't wait until my husband installs my stereo and builds my box! He will do his car first, then mine, so pehaps not for a few weeks

Heather

robmarch · 07-23-2003, 05:33 PM

You're talking about 3/4" MDF? Flexible? I'll check my sheet at home, but the stuff I was cutting my speaker spacers out was very stiff.

JT Clark · 07-23-2003, 07:18 PM

A full sheet of MDF does flex some under its weight, but it does weight quite a bit more than birch. My box is sealed and made of MDF. It's braced really well. I barely feel a thing with my hand on it when it's playing.

robmarch · 07-23-2003, 07:25 PM

I have a 2x4 sheet of 3/4 that doesn't start flexing until I start putting significant weight on it with my foot while it's supported at both ends. I think it's definitely strong enough for a sub box.

If you're worried about flex, just glue a small triangle brace periodically to reinforce the glue joint.

JT Clark · 07-23-2003, 09:18 PM

I weigh about 200 lbs and can jump up and down, stomping as hard as I want on the box and it doesn't even know I'm there.

gellar · 07-23-2003, 09:36 PM

There is absolutely no way Birch is more rigid than MDF given the same thickness... the MDF is far more dense.

Sergi

bunot · 07-23-2003, 11:13 PM

yeah. mdf is more dense, but birch is much much lighter. if you got birch at the same price as an mdf (not here in illinois, birch is twice more), then go with birch.

jason

JT Clark · 07-23-2003, 11:54 PM

Who cares?

Honestly, this is becoming stupid.

Either one is supposed to work great. Design and craftmanship are far more important when considering either of these two woods.

Just pick whichever one you want and go build your box!

07-20-2003, 10:15 PM	#1
Heather Scooby Specialist Member#: 11627 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chico, CA	Subwoofer box made out of pine OK? I read through the DIY subwoofer enclosure information. It says MDF or Birch- heavy and expensive. Can I make my subwoofer enclosure out of pine instead? If not, why? Pine is lighter and cheaper. Will the subwoofer sound equally as good in a pine box as in a MDF box? What kind of sound problems will I have with my woofer in a pine box, if any? I really want to buy a pre-made box at Circuit City, but my husband really wants to build one. Will it be just as good hand built, out of pine, as one I can buy pre-built? Thanks, Heather

07-21-2003, 07:15 PM	#9
Heather Scooby Specialist Member#: 11627 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chico, CA	why MDF? I am trying hard to understand the benefit of MDF. Yes MDF and Birch cost the same, so price is not a factor in my decision. MDF is wood with glue and sawdust pressed together, much like particleboard. The argument that MDF is better in humidity and moisture is false since it is also wood and will absorb moisture just as readily as any other wood. When I flex a piece of MDF it flexes way more then a piece of birch at the same thickness (3/4"), therefore the argument that MDF is superior because it flexes less is also false. I just found birch more aesthetically appealing then MDF with it dusty messy wood. Am I missing something about MDF here? I am really trying to understand it's benefit over birch. Thanks, Heather

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07-20-2003, 11:13 PM	#2
il96 Gone... But not forgotten Member#: 13082 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Philadelphia	MDF and pressed cardboard do not flex as well as wood, and do not resonate as well. This makes a box solid for better sound. Besides a wooden box will just crack from road vibrations, heat, cold, moisture and all the thumping your sub is going to make. If you don't want MDF or plywood, use fiberglass. Oh yeah, to make sure your subwoofer sounds the best, you must find the box that fits the specs. There are online box calculators where you enter speaker data, and get the box volume. If CC has a built box that matches your calculations or the woofer manufacturer's recommended box, buy it, if not check out www.SubZoneUSA.com they make nice boxes, but they are so damn heavy...

07-20-2003, 11:14 PM	#3
netZ Scooby Specialist Member#: 5743 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: nj/nyc Vehicle: 2007 Kia Optima gold brick	do yourself a favor... pine is good for coffins... mdf is acoustically superior to most inexpensive woods for subwoofer enclosures. pine and other cheap particle boards etc will absorb moisture and swell up. also some types of particle boards will let air out. how much can you possibly save by going to pine for a small sub box? not much... go with mdf! unless you have a full set of wood power tools, maybe it's more cost effective to buy a pre-built box for your sub(s). netZ

07-20-2003, 11:14 PM	#4
dsmperformance Scooby Specialist Member#: 15059 Join Date: Feb 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Latrobe, PA Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi 1991 TSi	No way... Go get atleast 3/4" MDF to fabricate a subwoofer box. Pine is really soft and will flex really bad and sound quality will suffer big time. You would be surprised how enclosure design affects sound quality. Also, you want to keep the enclosure as air tight as possible and only vent to woofer recommendations. Airspace is another issue, follow the mfg airspace requirements for the sub. All you need is 1 sheet of MDF for your enclosure. Call around and find the best price, should be around $20. Another tip, while you are at the hardware store, buy a tube of liquid nails and a package of 1.5" drywall screws to fasten all your joints.

07-21-2003, 10:29 AM	#5
Heather Scooby Specialist Member#: 11627 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chico, CA	On the DIY subwoofer enclosure document it says, "MDF or birch is the best." So I bought Birch- real wood! Yes he is building it to the specs of my subwoofer .75 cubic feet internal space. He works as a Civil Engineer and has many years of drafting experience, so the box was an easy thing for him to design. Next question: Is there any benefit to covering the box with the fuzzy material found on pre-made boxes? Or should I just paint it? Heather

07-21-2003, 10:43 AM	#6
ruiner Scooby Specialist Member#: 20784 Join Date: Jul 2002 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Dallas, TX Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX WR Blue	No benefit to carpeting, just aesthetics. For an auto subwoofer I would have built from MDF due to real wood's ability to absorb moisture, humidity, etc. For a home, birch is fine, for an auto MDF is always best. Chad

07-21-2003, 10:44 AM	#7
JT Clark Scooby Newbie Member#: 38112 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2003 Impreza TS White	Fuzzy material = carpet Cover it with whatever you want. That part is all for looks.

07-21-2003, 06:30 PM	#8
elsanto Scooby Specialist Member#: 34832 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: was once a nut like me. Vehicle: 1998 legacy + wrx black.	MDF isnt all that expensive either.. last time i bought 3/4" was 5.00 for a 4x6 (the big sheets i think thats the size at least, i had to cut it to get it in my wagon)

07-21-2003, 07:29 PM	#10
fej Scooby Newbie Member#: 24147 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA Vehicle: 2003 Subaru WRX 5mt Sonic Yellow w/ few mods	MDF is the way to go for the reasons previously mentioned .. mainly the higher resistance to flexing and the lower likelihood of absorbing moisture and warping that MDF has over "natural" woods. I bought two half sheets for like $11 or something at home depot. You have come this far don't skimp now! Good luck Fej

07-21-2003, 08:20 PM	#11
twhawky Scooby Newbie Member#: 39952 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: palmerton pa Vehicle: 1992 capri blue/w blk soft top	mdf has much more glue and is pressed together at a much higher psi than normal particle board and a greater density than any other material except hdf (hard to find and very expensive) almost water resistant at least good mdf will do this when you get a good mdf box and tap on it with somthing it will sound almost like metal most DB dragger don't carpet because it has a tendance to muffle the sound. but fo the average daily driver it doesn't matter

07-21-2003, 10:44 PM	#12
BryanH Scooby Guru Member#: 993 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Vehicle: that does not smell like teen spirit.	MDF is worlds apart from Birch plywood for all of the reasons mentioned here. The density of MDF makes it not resonate to the woofer. This means better bass in both volume and frequency as the enclosure provides no coloration. As for the moisture/humidity...MDF does not really absorb water like plywood does. The voids in plywood will actually act like a sponge and over time plywood will swell so much so that 3/4 in. dado cuts I have made while making book cases dont really need much more than a thin strip of glue to hold them securely as the plywood will swell and really fill the dado in for a nice tight fit. MDF does NOT do this as there are no voids in the product and the glue used to hold the product together is actually an epoxy and water resistant. But be sure to use at least 5/8 thick for an 8 or 10 and definently 3/4 for anything larger. And make sure to include adequate bracing inside the box. As for the carpet/paint...I do whatever matches the interior.

07-22-2003, 10:16 AM	#13
Heather Scooby Specialist Member#: 11627 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chico, CA	I guess MDF is the way to go. Okay you guys convinced me Odd the way every document on subwoofer enclosures I have found says birch or MDF, and shows no preference to either. What about Infinity Basslink, I mean it's enclosed in plastic- light weight flimsy plastic! How acoustical could that be? We did buy it and return it thinking the sound quality was not as clear as a 10" in a sealed box, but most people here on the club love Basslink. Just food for thought. Heather

07-22-2003, 10:33 AM	#14
JT Clark Scooby Newbie Member#: 38112 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2003 Impreza TS White	I've read the same things about birch that you have Heather. I don't really have the time to test it out though. MDF will not dissapoint though. The basslink is not bad. Remember that a lot of guys here are not really audiophiles though.

07-23-2003, 03:52 PM	#16
bunot Scooby Specialist Member#: 21641 Join Date: Jul 2002 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: oak brook, il Vehicle: 4EAT 12.185@110.34 Now a 6MT! beyatch!	just go with birch plywood, you will be fine. birch is 2X llighter than mdf. mdf is has better acoustical properties, but not by much. i have a birch plywood box for a 15" dual voicecoil JL audio sub and the thing pounds! if you put some cross-bracing and reinforcing, your box will still be lighter and just as good as an MDF box. i was faced with the same questions before, but after i spoke to a local audio installer (who's been doing this for 20 yrs.), he told me birch is a more practical option. jason

07-23-2003, 05:01 PM	#18
Heather Scooby Specialist Member#: 11627 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chico, CA	I went back to the store to look at MDF and man does it flex I decided to stick with my Birch plywood and just give it a good coat of paint to seal it from the moisture Very satisfied with my decision. Can't wait until my husband installs my stereo and builds my box! He will do his car first, then mine, so pehaps not for a few weeks Heather

07-23-2003, 05:33 PM	#19
robmarch Scooby Specialist Member#: 18713 Join Date: May 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Time is the Enemy Vehicle: 02 CRV 04 STi	You're talking about 3/4" MDF? Flexible? I'll check my sheet at home, but the stuff I was cutting my speaker spacers out was very stiff.

07-23-2003, 07:18 PM	#20
JT Clark Scooby Newbie Member#: 38112 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2003 Impreza TS White	A full sheet of MDF does flex some under its weight, but it does weight quite a bit more than birch. My box is sealed and made of MDF. It's braced really well. I barely feel a thing with my hand on it when it's playing.

07-23-2003, 07:25 PM	#21
robmarch Scooby Specialist Member#: 18713 Join Date: May 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Time is the Enemy Vehicle: 02 CRV 04 STi	I have a 2x4 sheet of 3/4 that doesn't start flexing until I start putting significant weight on it with my foot while it's supported at both ends. I think it's definitely strong enough for a sub box. If you're worried about flex, just glue a small triangle brace periodically to reinforce the glue joint.

07-23-2003, 09:18 PM	#22
JT Clark Scooby Newbie Member#: 38112 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2003 Impreza TS White	I weigh about 200 lbs and can jump up and down, stomping as hard as I want on the box and it doesn't even know I'm there.

07-23-2003, 09:36 PM	#23
gellar Scooby Specialist Member#: 31047 Join Date: Dec 2002 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Bay Area, CA Vehicle: 05 OBP STi formerly 03 MBP WRX	There is absolutely no way Birch is more rigid than MDF given the same thickness... the MDF is far more dense. Sergi

07-23-2003, 11:13 PM	#24
bunot Scooby Specialist Member#: 21641 Join Date: Jul 2002 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: oak brook, il Vehicle: 4EAT 12.185@110.34 Now a 6MT! beyatch!	yeah. mdf is more dense, but birch is much much lighter. if you got birch at the same price as an mdf (not here in illinois, birch is twice more), then go with birch. jason

07-23-2003, 11:54 PM	#25
JT Clark Scooby Newbie Member#: 38112 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2003 Impreza TS White	Who cares? Honestly, this is becoming stupid. Either one is supposed to work great. Design and craftmanship are far more important when considering either of these two woods. Just pick whichever one you want and go build your box!