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Old 07-26-2003, 12:40 AM   #101
Revolutions Motorsports
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Take a chill pill and dump a gallon or two of Toluene in your gas tank. Can you say ping be gone?
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:00 PM   #102
CloNeGTS
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Right on....

The good news is the ball is rolling for a fix. Now let's all just wait until the ball rolls our way.



Thanks Porter for all of your help!
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:18 PM   #103
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Wonder when everyone will figure out that their normal WRX's do the same thing... The ECU ignores knock in high rev ranges guys... It just keeps adding on timing because it's just plugging it's ears to the knock.
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:47 PM   #104
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I talked to my service manager about 10 min ago, he advised about the fix, wanted to know if I wanted to schedule an appointment.

I told him I needed information on the fix prior to making an appointment, regarding what the fix included and what effect it has on HP and TQ.

He said he would contact SOA and see what he could find out.
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:49 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazyhorse
Wonder when everyone will figure out that their normal WRX's do the same thing... The ECU ignores knock in high rev ranges guys... It just keeps adding on timing because it's just plugging it's ears to the knock.
Yes, and there's an existing reflash for that as well, since last year sometime. Only some vehicles exhibit this, if your vehicle pings, bring it to the dealer. It's all pretty straightforward.
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Old 07-28-2003, 02:57 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Revolutions Motorsports
Take a chill pill and dump a gallon or two of Toluene in your gas tank. Can you say ping be gone?
Careful when giving out such vague advice...there's a little more involved. One can only safely mix up to a 30% mix of toluene or xylene into pump gas. And add 1 oz of Marvels Mystery oil/gal of either of the aforementioned is recommended. Both of these are very "dry"...the MMO helps keeps seals from drying and cracking.

Personally, I'm running a 94 octane mix: 1.5 gal xylene (117 octane) and 1.5 oz MMO with 11.5 gal 91 octane. This is safe to use in a daily driver.
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Old 07-28-2003, 08:49 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by STiBro


Careful when giving out such vague advice...there's a little more involved. One can only safely mix up to a 30% mix of toluene or xylene into pump gas. And add 1 oz of Marvels Mystery oil/gal of either of the aforementioned is recommended. Both of these are very "dry"...the MMO helps keeps seals from drying and cracking.

Personally, I'm running a 94 octane mix: 1.5 gal xylene (117 octane) and 1.5 oz MMO with 11.5 gal 91 octane. This is safe to use in a daily driver.
Sucks to be in California... many places on the east coast you can buy 94 octane at the pump as the "premium" fuel for no real increase in cost.
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Old 07-29-2003, 12:39 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Porter

Sucks to be in California...
Yeah, it's one of the drawbacks of living in this God aweful state. Of course, I lived in Boston for a few months and yes, Sunoco 94 was available. I'll stay here and mix up my 94 octane fuel (w/xylene) for what works out to be $2.15/gal at today's gas price.
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Old 07-29-2003, 01:56 AM   #109
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does anyone know how much it would cost to just order an ecu for the sti? i would assume it would have the new "non-detonation" programming. that way, someone would be able to say for certain if the new program affects power or not. a simple back to back dyno pull would tell all.

or just trade in the overrated sti for a lancer evo.
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Old 07-29-2003, 08:24 AM   #110
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Or maybe trade in that overrated EVO for an SRT4.
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Old 07-29-2003, 09:44 AM   #111
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Then an SRT4 for a bus pass.
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Old 07-29-2003, 08:08 PM   #112
hatchy
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Default damn it!

For the last 3500 miles, no pinging at all. Just this morning, I heard it ping mildly twice. The car had been running for 40 mins, then shutdown and sat in the sun for about an hour, so the engine and intercooler was plenty hot. Drove for 3 minutes to cool the car down, stopped pinging.

I guess I should get in line for the reflash..
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Old 07-29-2003, 10:36 PM   #113
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Default Re: damn it!

Quote:
Originally posted by hatchy
For the last 3500 miles, no pinging at all. Just this morning, I heard it ping mildly twice. The car had been running for 40 mins, then shutdown and sat in the sun for about an hour, so the engine and intercooler was plenty hot. Drove for 3 minutes to cool the car down, stopped pinging.

I guess I should get in line for the reflash..
Looks like you haven't been following the pinging problem threads much. Only some of the STi's have a serious pinging problem that merits a reflash. If that's the first time you've heard it, and it's mild, then mostly likely there's absolutely nothing wrong with your car. Those with the problem probably have a too aggressive knock/learn programming. Your's is probably "just right", where it advances timing enough to detect a little knock.

The reflash may end up being exactly like what you have currently.
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Old 07-29-2003, 10:43 PM   #114
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Default Re: Re: damn it!

Quote:
Originally posted by STiBro
Those with the problem probably have a too aggressive knock/learn programming.
All US STi's have the exact same program flashed into their ECU's ROM.
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Old 07-30-2003, 12:04 AM   #115
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Default Re: Re: Re: damn it!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
All US STi's have the exact same program flashed into their ECU's ROM.
That's what I would have guessed, which bums me out. Because it tells me that those STi's that are knocking, have another problem...not with the ECU. Like a knock sensor, or ? So if we deduce that it's not the ECU, why are they reflashing it? Answer me that.

Just FYI, mine knocked moderately between 4K and 4.5K rpms on 91 octane. With my xylene mix for a 94 octane fuel, I have zero knock.
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Old 07-30-2003, 12:58 AM   #116
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Default Re: Re: damn it!

Umm, no, I have been following this since it was first reported, but have never experienced it until this morning. I've had my car since May. I just figured I got lucky.


Quote:
Originally posted by STiBro


Looks like you haven't been following the pinging problem threads much. Only some of the STi's have a serious pinging problem that merits a reflash. If that's the first time you've heard it, and it's mild, then mostly likely there's absolutely nothing wrong with your car. Those with the problem probably have a too aggressive knock/learn programming. Your's is probably "just right", where it advances timing enough to detect a little knock.

The reflash may end up being exactly like what you have currently.
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Old 07-30-2003, 01:42 AM   #117
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Default Re: Re: Re: damn it!

Quote:
Originally posted by hatchy
Umm, no, I have been following this since it was first reported, but have never experienced it until this morning. I've had my car since May. I just figured I got lucky.
Not really - under the right circumstances (or should that be wrong?), nearly any car will ping/knock. The problem isn't that it pinged, the problem is whether or not the ECU dealt with it correctly. It sounds like it did, if it went away. Your description of the circumstances of the ping would lead me to believe that even the best operating engine/ecu would have done exactly the same thing...

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 07-30-2003, 02:06 AM   #118
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Here's my story...
Bought the car in SLC, UT, drove it home for the break in period. Went out about two nights after I got home to have some fun. Then and now I am experiencing pinging at about 4300. It's not very loud, but it is noticeable. I told the service department at my local dealer and he said he knew nothing about it. I also called SOA...same story. It does it most of the time, and it is always at 4200-4300. I've tried 93 & 91. Those are my only choices here in OK. I'm taking the car in as soon as I can to have one of the techs ride along. It's just pissing me off.
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Old 07-30-2003, 02:30 AM   #119
hatchy
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: damn it!

Doesn't bother me, since it only happened twice in 3500 miles of driving and only when the car is totally heat soaked. Oh, and the other change was a tank of Shell gas instead of Chevon (what I normally get, from the same station).

I am hoping that the reflash will make the ECU a little smarter--don't advance to X degrees if A, B, C are true.. and then remember what the A, B, C values were!

Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma


Not really - under the right circumstances (or should that be wrong?), nearly any car will ping/knock. The problem isn't that it pinged, the problem is whether or not the ECU dealt with it correctly. It sounds like it did, if it went away. Your description of the circumstances of the ping would lead me to believe that even the best operating engine/ecu would have done exactly the same thing...

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 07-30-2003, 03:19 AM   #120
RichQY
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just picked up my car.

pinged on the first day

not sure if they put in bad gas.. i ll try 76 100 octane first
if it still pings

i am in line for a reflash..


is this the correct procedure?

1. call up dealer. report problem
2. schedule a run w/ a manager. show him the pings.
3. call up regional reps?


my car pinged really bad.
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Old 07-30-2003, 10:31 AM   #121
KoneKiller
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It pinged on the first day?

I've not seen anybody report that it pings below 4k rpm and at less than full throttle.

Quote:
Originally posted by RichQY
just picked up my car.

pinged on the first day

not sure if they put in bad gas.. i ll try 76 100 octane first
if it still pings

i am in line for a reflash..


is this the correct procedure?

1. call up dealer. report problem
2. schedule a run w/ a manager. show him the pings.
3. call up regional reps?


my car pinged really bad.
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Old 07-30-2003, 10:33 AM   #122
STiBro
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichQY
just picked up my car.

pinged on the first day

So it sounds like you did a WOT blast on the car, without a break-in? You're motor will not last. You're supposed to Grand-Ma it for the first 1K miles!
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Old 07-30-2003, 11:21 AM   #123
wolverine
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Default Non-audible pinging

I noticed that my car will ping on anything below 94. And mind you, I only "hear" pinging on 91, but if it is 93, I don't hear any pinging (maybe my ears are not that great), but, fortunately, I have the knocklink hooked up, so, I would see flashing yellow and briefly-flashing white LED (knock)... However, the det must be small so that it is not audible over the engine noise. For 94 gas, no LED is lighted up at all--only the first green LED is lighted up occasionally (for all 4 of my WOT runs through 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear). This is the way it SHOULD be!

So, for those of you who think that their car does not ping, because you don't hear it, you may want to recheck, because the pinging may be small enough that it gets drowned out by the engine noise.

BTW, anyone comming back with a reflash from Subaru yet? Please post results!
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Old 07-30-2003, 01:01 PM   #124
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Default Re: Non-audible pinging

Quote:
Originally posted by wolverine
I
So, for those of you who think that their car does not ping, because you don't hear it, you may want to recheck, because the pinging may be small enough that it gets drowned out by the engine noise.

Ok... this is over the top. This qualifies as full blown hysteria.

When folks were talking about loud pinging for 2 to 4 seconds during a blast of WOT up a hill, I thought... ok... so it might be a minor problem.

Then people started complaining about a ping or two on WOT throttle between 4k and 4.2k rpm, I thought... people are being a bit oversensitive about this.

Now we have someone instilling fear over inaudible pinging!!! Give me a break, you guys have lost it. Straight jackets for everyone, please. Make mine extra tight.

We'll save the argument about just how much pre-ignition is good and how much you must have before you do any damage for another time. But let's be clear that the knock sensor and KnockLink do NOT really measure knock. The knock sensor is a small weight attached to a peizo element attached to the motor. It just makes electricity when it encounters vibration. The knock sensor simply measures vibration and there is a LOT of vibration in a high performance motor/car.

I don't know much about the KnockLink and I didn't find a technical description on their website (suspicious). If the KnockLink reports every signal as knock, it's making a lot of errors. If it has an algorithm for determining what is and what isn't knock, then it's making a lot of errors, too, because it's an ADD-ON and not tuned to the particular sensor or sensor location. I'm not saying that the tool doesn't have it's place, I'm just saying that I wouldn't take it's word on 'inaudible knock' and get all bent out of shape over it.

There are people posting on this board who are very capable of having academic discussions of subtle details around these issues and there are the hysterical ones and those out to make a buck or two from them.

Somebody please give that left strap on my straightjacket another tug. I can still wiggle a bit. Thanks!
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Old 07-30-2003, 01:17 PM   #125
VVVV
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Quote:
Originally posted by martiandl
Then an SRT4 for a bus pass.
Hey, don't insult my bus pass.
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