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Old 08-08-2003, 12:33 AM   #201
ANZAC_1915
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
And yes, I do think you likely get "special treatment" from Subaru. The treatment you get should in fact be the way every customer gets treated, whether or not they are knowledgeable like you are.
Actually, a friend going to the same dealer before me has his car at the dealer now for the reflash, they didn't need any proof from him, so I may not be getting special treatment, just have found a good dealer.

My car goes in tomorrow.
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:11 PM   #202
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That's good news, Glenn. Since your car had lots of det. issues I will be interested in your report when you get the car back to see if it took care of the problem. Given the number of folks with det issues it just seems like all the cars out there should at least have the option of the reflash without being put through the third degree. This kind of reminds me of the clutch shudder issue on the WRX--we know they all did it, to some degree or another, even if it was hard to duplicate sometimes. Some folks got the fix with no questions asked--others got the run around for awhile until they insisted it be fixed.
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:17 PM   #203
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Default Anyone in California?

I wonder if anyone in California has/is going to bring their car in for a reflash yet? I know it could be a different story, because of the crappy 91 gas we have here. Also, all the dealers I talked to deny this issue.

(Sorry, Glenn, for hi-jacking your thread, but I haven't got any answer from BAIC forum).
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:40 PM   #204
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I dont know about you guys in Cali, but here in Phoenix we have got Tractor Piss 91.

I have been in contact with a guy in Tucson that just got his STi reflash back. In a couple of weeks we are going to try and set up a few dyno runs to see what we can see from the reflash.

Once done, we will post the results for everyone.

I just hope its good news.

The only thing we dont have is a dyno run on a stock car with 91 Tractor Piss to compare before and after reflash results.

I wish we had the opertunity to compare a before and after on the same stock car, since cars can differ greatly from one another.

So with no planning this will just have to do for now, unless I can find another volunteer thats stock, has det issues and wants a reflash.
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:45 PM   #205
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"Tractor Piss". What a great moniker. Too bad Ca. doesn't have Tractor Piss gas stations, with Tractor Piss credit cards, Tractor Piss station owners. You know, a Tractor Piss station owner now could run for Governor, extolling to all how he made his millions selling Tractor Piss.....
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Old 08-08-2003, 05:22 PM   #206
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Default Re: Anyone in California?

Quote:
Originally posted by wolverine
I wonder if anyone in California has/is going to bring their car in for a reflash yet? I know it could be a different story, because of the crappy 91 gas we have here. Also, all the dealers I talked to deny this issue.

(Sorry, Glenn, for hi-jacking your thread, but I haven't got any answer from BAIC forum).
After contacting the internet sales manager at Santa Monica Subaru (who I purchased the car from), he acknowledged that he has seen this problem in another STi that they sold. He told me to bring the car in, and have the tech look at it.

However, I haven't had time yet, and since I might be moving to PA for several months starting in October... I will just use Sunoco 94 out there (hopefully). I'll definitely get it reflashed when I move back to Los Angeles.

-Mike-
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Old 08-10-2003, 11:04 PM   #207
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Default ReFlash works nicely

Glenn's right, just called up the dealer booked an appointment for ECU flash, no questions asked.

I'm pleased with the results, got my car back on Wednesday and am now ping free.
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Old 08-10-2003, 11:27 PM   #208
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Default Re: ReFlash works nicely

Quote:
Originally posted by ABCDriver
and am now ping free.
New STi bumper stickers:

"I'm ping free!"

"No det, and proud of it"

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Old 08-11-2003, 09:26 AM   #209
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Default Re: Re: ReFlash works nicely

Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace


New STi bumper stickers:

"I'm ping free!"

"No det, and proud of it"



Great!

So until we get some more data on the "fix" I will be just like Intel "Ping Inside"
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Old 08-11-2003, 02:07 PM   #210
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What data are you waiting for? If your car pings, get it to the dealer for the reflash.
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Old 08-11-2003, 02:39 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
What data are you waiting for? If your car pings, get it to the dealer for the reflash.
My car pinged moderately at 4K rpms on 91 octane. Since then I've been running a a 94 mix (w/xylene), with no pinging and a lot of power. I'm interested to know what was done and what dyno numbers look like before I go for the reflash. I love the idea of running 91 w/o pinging. I I really love the idea of retaining 300 hp on 91 octane - but am a little sceptical.
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Old 08-11-2003, 02:44 PM   #212
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Why do you think you are making 300hp on 91 octane?
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:10 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
Why do you think you are making 300hp on 91 octane?
I don't think that. But if Subaru is advertising and selling a car in CA, claiming 300 hp - it ought to be (and implies that it is) making it on 91 octane. Which I suspect it does, but with detonation.

Why do you think they're NOT making 300 hp on 91?
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:20 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally posted by STiBro


I don't think that. But if Subaru is advertising and selling a car in CA, claiming 300 hp - it ought to be (and implies that it is) making it on 91 octane. Which I suspect it does, but with detonation.

Why do you think they're NOT making 300 hp on 91?

I agree, I will continue to mix Sunoco GT Plus 109 with 91 until I get some facts and data around the reflash.

I want to know what "offically" the reflash does and Dyno results of before and after.
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:36 PM   #215
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I believe the original advertised power spec was using 93 AKI. I remember noting that, but I can't recall exactly where (the early brochure?).

I'd be surprised if the cars are making exactly 300 on 91/92 tractor piss (with or without ping). The car requires premium gas with a minimum of 91 AKI, but the power figures are definitely for >= 93 AKI.

Face it, fixing the ping is an overriding reliability issue, despite Subaru's lack of a recall.

A well tuned car (no ping) is going to drive better and last longer.

The power the car makes is much more a factor of the boost curve and the max advance. If all they've done is recurve the ignition timing advance knee then as Shiv said, the car may lose a tiny amount of torque, but at 6000 RPM it should make whatever it did before on the same octane gas (which may or may not have been 300 in the case of 91 AKI).

I haven't driven my car or ABCDriver's car yet, but I've heard the power difference is neglibile.

Before/after dyno runs are an idea, but I distrust chassis dynos quite a bit, even with comparitive measurements (unless you could A|B swap the old/new ECM between pulls, and even then without time for either to re-learn, it wouldn't be totally meaningful either).

Glenn
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:45 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
I believe the original advertised power spec was using 93 AKI. I remember noting that, but I can't recall exactly where (the early brochure?).

I'd be surprised if the cars are making exactly 300 on 91/92 tractor piss (with or without ping). The car requires premium gas with a minimum of 91 AKI, but the power figures are definitely for >= 93 AKI.

Face it, fixing the ping is an overriding reliability issue, despite Subaru's lack of a recall.

A well tuned car (no ping) is going to drive better and last longer.

The power the car makes is much more a factor of the boost curve and the max advance. If all they've done is recurve the ignition timing advance knee then as Shiv said, the car may lose a tiny amount of torque, but at 6000 RPM it should make whatever it did before on the same octane gas (which may or may not have been 300 in the case of 91 AKI).

I haven't driven my car or ABCDriver's car yet, but I've heard the power difference is neglibile.

Before/after dyno runs are an idea, but I distrust chassis dynos quite a bit, even with comparitive measurements (unless you could A|B swap the old/new ECM between pulls, and even then without time for either to re-learn, it wouldn't be totally meaningful either).

Glenn

I couldnt agree more.

Chassis dynos are anything but consistant, for a variety of reasons.

Then the re-learn time frame issue.

Plus at this point, I dont have a stock car on 91 to compare before and after dyno results. I will be comparing 2 different cars which further complicates the results.


But at the sametime, I would rather have some facts and data around the issue before making a decsion. In the future, there will be other options available also.

Until then, I will keep keep mixing my 94.9 octane, which the car loves!
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Old 08-11-2003, 04:13 PM   #217
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STiBro. Like Glenn, I think when they say the STI was built to run on 93 that means their power figures, if they are accurate, may require at least 93 octane. I have always found it a little odd Subaru got exactly 300hp/300ft.torque, as nice as those figures sound. I'm not so sure they didn't simply claim a ballpark figure early on in January when they announced the specs, and did fine tuning later. I really don't trust any Japanese (or most other manufacturers) to be really totally honest about power figures. In fact, the only manufacturer I really would believe is Porsche, which historically has always said their motors make "at least" a certain power level--most of their motors in fact made more than claimed but I never heard of any making less than advertized.
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:10 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
I really don't trust any Japanese (or most other manufacturers) to be really totally honest about power figures. In fact, the only manufacturer I really would believe is Porsche, which historically has always said their motors make "at least" a certain power level--most of their motors in fact made more than claimed but I never heard of any making less than advertized.
hey, if thats what you believe, then thats what you believe...but i think you have to look at the facts to be a little more objective...

some known common japanese underrated cars:

nsx
cl-s
tsx
rsx
accord
supra
STi? on 93, i think so.
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:15 PM   #219
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I'd like to add to the list, 2004 Forester XT. 210/235, yeh right. Richard
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:29 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally posted by SuperRuWRX
I'd like to add to the list, 2004 Forester XT. 210/235, yeh right. Richard
Amen to that. The FXT makes baby Jesus cry.
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:33 PM   #221
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I just think its a little suspicious this car has exactly 300hp/300ft/torque....has Subaru released a power curve of this motor after it passed U.S. emission requirements? From all reports the motor is very strong, but it would be interesting to see the numbers.
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Old 08-11-2003, 08:26 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
I just think its a little suspicious this car has exactly 300hp/300ft/torque....has Subaru released a power curve of this motor after it passed U.S. emission requirements? From all reports the motor is very strong, but it would be interesting to see the numbers.
I first speculated that Subaru detuned the motor, with the predetermined target to be 300 hp. That, or that they've either intensionally unrated it, and or just used their average hp findings. Many companies state "222 hp" (Maxima) or 227 hp for the WRX, when we all know that there is variability.

BTW, my friend told me that there is some new Ford with 304 hp, selling for $13K?
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Old 08-11-2003, 08:36 PM   #223
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"304 hp, selling for $13K?"

Ford Pinto with a V-8 ?
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Old 08-11-2003, 09:16 PM   #224
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Are you sure that wasn't "three or four", as opposed to "three oh four"?



There's been talk of the Ford Focus RS coming Stateside, but if it does it'll be a lot more than $13k, trust me.

Zen
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Old 08-11-2003, 10:02 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally posted by SuperRuWRX
I'd like to add to the list, 2004 Forester XT. 210/235, yeh right. Richard
doh! totally forgot about that one.

another thing...when racing an evo from a roll, it is REALLY apparent how much more power this car really has. gearing and whatnot aside, i think the way this car pulls on the evo, there is a bigger difference than 30hp.
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