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Old 07-21-2003, 10:17 AM   #1
STEALTH-WRX
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Default can someone school me on automatic transmissions

I have decided that i want to use an automatic transmission in my car instead of the 6 speed. I love the idea of pre-loading and being able to build boost. However, i dont know a thing about the transmission itself and how it works. I like to know the ins and outs about things before i do this. How does the transmission shift gears (electronically, vacuum, fluid?), how does a stall converter work, how does someone build an automatic transmission, what are things that need to be strengthened. Any information would be great. THanks.

Nick
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:40 AM   #2
bunot
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woo-hoo!! a convert!! 4EATers rule!!!

i don't know everything about the tranny itself, as it is still way over my head...but what i do know.....

you can upgrade your stock torque converter to protorque's hi-stall converter. you can pre-load this up to 4100rpms. you can get levelten's valvebody. go to levelten's site and they have pretty good descriptions on what they do.

you could also PM, padre, rifts and khaos....they might have the answers you seek.

jason
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:08 AM   #3
STEALTH-WRX
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I checked thier website and I did not see any Subaru stuff on it. I will try to contact them and see what they can do for me. The prices seems pretty good comparing to buying a 6 speed.

$500 for the converter
$700 for valve body
$500 for peformance rebuild kit.

Basically $1200 to build and automatic. What other parts need to be built. Is there another subaru transmission thats stronger. How much is a automatic transmission.
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:16 AM   #4
Legacy777
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:35 AM   #5
STEALTH-WRX
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Wow. There is alot of parts in an automatic. So how strong are they.
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:41 PM   #6
bunot
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i don't even know anyone selling the 4EAT tranny. good luck finding one. you might have to buy brand new from the dealer.

jason
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:47 PM   #7
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i dont mind buying a new one from the dealer. everything still wont cost as much as a sti tranny
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:53 PM   #8
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bunot: What the heck are you talking about? Plenty of used Automatics are available.

STEALTH-WRX: Ask more specific questions on how it works. You mentioned how shifting takes place, it is through hydrolic pressure. Do you know what a planetary gearset looks like? If not take apart one of those hand screw drivers, they will have 2 or three of them stacked.

One advantage you forgot to mention is BEING IN TWO GEARS AT ONCE. The 1st to second shift is gradual, meaning for a short time you will be in 1.5 gear. In other words power to the wheels is not lost. No matter how fast you are with a manual transmisison you will always loose power to the wheels during a shift.

"how does a stall converter work" or Torque converter. Imagine taking two box fans (the type you stick in a window at home). One is connected to AC power. Stick them right in front of each other. The air pushed by the powered fan will spin the second fan. You could reach in and stop the "idle" fan if you wanted while the powered fan still spins.

Now imagine those two fans running with fluid inbetween (alot thicker than air). This is how the Torque converter sends power to the transmission. There are other items inside as well.

The name Torque converter relates to the ability to INCREASE TORQUE at low RPMS. There is a one way spinning "fan" inside the torque converter that at low RPM increases the power by changing the direction of the fluid.

Another item inside is a clutch. Say you are cruising on the highway. You wouldnt want the engine constantly pushing against the fluid, making heat and wasting gas. So the clutch comes together and makes a 1:1 connection from the engine to the wheels.
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Old 07-21-2003, 02:56 PM   #9
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I was talking to Sam at levelten and he told me that there is no $500 performance rebuild kit. That`s for other cars not the WRX.
Tranny performance rebuild kit for the WRX will cost $3800 that is including the VB.


Sap


Rui Wittwer
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Old 07-21-2003, 03:22 PM   #10
STEALTH-WRX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saposat
I was talking to Sam at levelten and he told me that there is no $500 performance rebuild kit. That`s for other cars not the WRX.
Tranny performance rebuild kit for the WRX will cost $3800 that is including the VB.
Rui Wittwer
I was just referencing those numbers. I never saw any advertised subaru parts.

With the $3800 kit, what is included and how much power can it hold.
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Old 07-21-2003, 04:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
bunot: What the heck are you talking about? Plenty of used Automatics are available.
umm....where exactly do you see any used 4EAT trannies for sale? there are some 4EAT cars for sale...but running a search through the classifieds for the past month, there's only 1 4EAT tranny for sale and it's for a '93 Legacy with 50K miles on it.

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Old 07-21-2003, 05:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX


I was just referencing those numbers. I never saw any advertised subaru parts.

With the $3800 kit, what is included and how much power can it hold.
They do not advertise them on there website.
It includes a better clutch and bunch of other stuff. LOL I did not go in to details with him.
Give Sam a call. When I called he said that he was working on 800 HP 4EAT WRX tranny.
There is 2 ways of doing this :
Send the tranny or take the car there.

Sap

Rui Wittwer
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Old 07-21-2003, 05:29 PM   #13
ciper
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bunot: I KNOW BECAUSE I FREAKING BOUGHT ONE. You think Nasioc is the only resource available in the world for subaru?

Even the random import engine/transmission shop 10 miles from my office had 7 4eat to choose from last time I was there. Thats only one shop! I could have gotten a 4eat with 3.9 4.11 or even 4.44 final drive. This is a place that mostly specializes in hondas and toyotas!

Way more automatic subarus are sold than 5 speeds.

A 93 legacy tranny with 50k sounds interesting. Im going to look for it!
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Old 07-21-2003, 09:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
bunot: I KNOW BECAUSE I FREAKING BOUGHT ONE. You think Nasioc is the only resource available in the world for subaru?

Even the random import engine/transmission shop 10 miles from my office had 7 4eat to choose from last time I was there. Thats only one shop! I could have gotten a 4eat with 3.9 4.11 or even 4.44 final drive. This is a place that mostly specializes in hondas and toyotas!

Way more automatic subarus are sold than 5 speeds.

A 93 legacy tranny with 50k sounds interesting. Im going to look for it!
those aren't WRX 4EAT trannies. altho they will still work, they are probably from older models and have high-mileage. with tranny reliability in mind, i don't think stealth-wrx would buy a used high-mileage 4EAT tranny. compared to used 5MT and 6MT which are low-mileage and a lot of them are even new.

jason
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Old 07-21-2003, 09:52 PM   #15
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www.car-part.com is another great resource for finding used car parts.

-Wes
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:17 PM   #16
bunot
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Quote:
Originally posted by RebelINS
www.car-part.com is another great resource for finding used car parts.

-Wes
good site...can't believe how many more WRX MTs are for sale compared to WRX 4EATs.

jason
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:08 PM   #17
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bunot: I may have missed it but I didnt read he had a WRX in any of his posts. Either way, all the used 5 speed from WRX that are used but in working condition are from wrecked cars or swaps right? Wouldnt it make sense that some automatic WRX have wrecked or swapped to a manual?
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
bunot: I may have missed it but I didnt read he had a WRX in any of his posts. Either way, all the used 5 speed from WRX that are used but in working condition are from wrecked cars or swaps right? Wouldnt it make sense that some automatic WRX have wrecked or swapped to a manual?
you are right. he didn't say it was for a wrx, but i'm just assuming since his handle is "stealth-wrx" that he probably wants it for a wrx.

and yes, there would be 4EAT trannies mostly from salvaged cars and a few from MT swaps, but subaru only produced a very samll number 4EATs to begin with compared to MTs and i haven't heard of anyone in the boards destroy a whole 4EAT tranny. 1 can easily assume that acquiring a 4EAT tranny may not be that easy. to put things in perspective, i just sold my stock torque converter. i didn't even have the protorque TC in my car yet, and i already had 3 eager buyers all in a day of announcement. that's how low in supply these parts have become. i will be going thru the same problems when i try to purchase a used valvebody.

jason
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Old 07-22-2003, 01:29 AM   #19
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Here is a great auto tranny post with some input from RallyKnight (their local So Cali too).

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ghlight=clutch

joe
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Old 07-22-2003, 01:43 AM   #20
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NEUTRAL DROPS, y0
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Old 07-22-2003, 07:58 AM   #21
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bunot/ciper, STEALTH-WRX:

Don't put a WRX 4EAT into the car.

The VTD-AWD system in the WRX 4EAT is a great system, but it's easy to break long before you reach the power limits of the rest of the gearbox.

The center diff shears easily.

Find another 4.111 4EAT with the MPT-AWD system to put in the car.

/Andrew
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Old 07-22-2003, 10:27 AM   #22
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what can i use. I cannot use an electronically controlled transmission. I am using an autronic ecu and it will not support the tranny. Whats available and what will be strong.
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Old 07-22-2003, 10:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kha0S
bunot/ciper, STEALTH-WRX:

Don't put a WRX 4EAT into the car.

The VTD-AWD system in the WRX 4EAT is a great system, but it's easy to break long before you reach the power limits of the rest of the gearbox.

The center diff shears easily.

Find another 4.111 4EAT with the MPT-AWD system to put in the car.

/Andrew
khaos....do you know if levelten or any other perofrmance shop can beef up the center diff? i heard someone can cryo-treat it and make it bullet-proof. i also hear quaife has a bullet-proof version.

jason
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Old 07-22-2003, 11:58 AM   #24
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STEALTH -- Subaru does not make an automatic transmission that doesn't use electronic control (hence 4EAT). Your only option for a non-electronic unit is a custom built box from Knight.

bunot -- I'm sure someone out there can treat them and make them stronger. There's no such thing as a bulletproof transmission.

/Andrew
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Old 07-22-2003, 02:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kha0S
There's no such thing as a bulletproof transmission.

/Andrew
WELL said...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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