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View Poll Results: Every subaru except the Legacy has a "special" engine.
Its not right 27 45.76%
I dont mind 30 50.85%
other 2 3.39%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-22-2003, 09:25 PM   #1
ciper
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Default How many of you are angered that the Baja turbo was out before the Legacy turbo?

I dont like the fact that EVERY other vehicle subaru offers in the US now has a cool engine (2.5 turbo, 2.0 turbo or h6) while the LEGACY has nothing!!!!!! Its really start to rub me the wrong way

This is the first time a model was only available with one engine choice. Im not saying the 2.5l na engine is crap but its a little weak compared to other vehicles in the same market.
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Old 07-22-2003, 10:01 PM   #2
Jarvis
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I am anxious for it to get into the Legacy, but I also like the fact that some kinks will get worked out in the other models.

Jim
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Old 07-22-2003, 10:53 PM   #3
Legacy777
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think of it this way.....they get the same body style. The legacy get's an entirely new chassis/tweaking.

I'll take the whole pie rather then a slice..........

JMO.
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Old 07-22-2003, 11:32 PM   #4
Snowphun
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IMO the ej25 is a very tired engine, and doesn't deserve to be the "sporty" engine in a car this big. But I'm hopefully that the ej25t (or whatever it's called) will be in the new Legacy soon, as I'd like to replace my GT with a 05 in a year or so.

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Old 07-23-2003, 12:01 AM   #5
SubaruRules
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Post so?

I don't care since I already have a "cool" engine

But anyway, I want a turbo '05 Outback
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Old 07-23-2003, 01:58 AM   #6
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WOW!!! I am rather displeased to hear the Baja will be getting a turbo before the Legacy will. From the revamped front end of the Impreza, to them offering the turbo in the forestor, it seems the "Flagship" of Subaru which in other countries is the B4 or Legacy, is being shall we say left behind a bit. I will agree that I'd prefer it in the new body style, but will argue that the re-engineered Legacy should've been offered before the Baja Turbo. IF a Legacy Turbo would've been offered sooner than is predicted, I would've waited on my recent purchase. I for one hope they do not push back the release date of the new turbo Legacy. Just remeber SOA, hungry people don't stay hungry for long...(sorry, was listening to a little rage against the machine)

Ben
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Old 07-23-2003, 03:07 AM   #7
danci1973
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I don't really care - I can't afford either.

But it does make me to see JDM get all the cool stuff!

D.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:59 AM   #8
gtguy
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Subaru is taking the time to get the Legacy right, as it is their most important car. The Baja was already finished. It was a simple matter of tweaking the 2.5T and dropping it in. New Legacy, new engine, new goodies.

Makes sense to me.

Kevin
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Old 07-23-2003, 12:39 PM   #9
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I'm actually glad the Legacy is not out yet....I can't afford it at this time.

I would be way to jealous to see all those Legacy-T's running around when I couldn't have one

Plus it will help to divert the masses away from the new Legacy....so we can still be a little diverse.
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Old 07-23-2003, 01:09 PM   #10
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I find it quite frustrating.

Especially since the Baja is a dead mule in this market......we have sold only 3 since they came out.....and thats only because of huge rebates.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:50 PM   #11
Gator GT
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Default good things come to those who wait...

Yeah sure, waiting for something is a PITA, but when it does come over, I can only agree with other wisemen who have posted above me, they will have worked the quirks out.

I am a reformed Subie man. As you can see, I own a 98 Leg GT. loving every minute of it!

I was going to keep this as a winter car and save up (massively) for a RalliArt Evo, not a RalliArt Lancer, but a 340hp Evo in a couple years.

After seeing it at the local Mitsu dlr and coming to appreciate what makes Subaru unique (flat engine, reliability, not too shabby interior) so long Mitsu!

Why try to run around in a boy racer with a cheap interior and higher center of gravity when you can be cruising in style and comfort, far far far ahead of the pack with the all new Legacy T.

Sure, bring over the B4 (or USDM equivalent), I'll still stand quietly in the corner. Rumors are flying in Japan about a poss B6T. Thats my "whole pie" (thanks, legacy 777).

Think about it. WRX STi = 300hp. The B4 (currently) is getting a supposed "276 hp" (a little conservative IMHO, more like 310-320) in the Mother Land.

Subaru knows what kind of market for performance is over here. Japanese car mftrs have an "unwritten rule" of no higher than 300hp.



WE DON'T!

This is Subie's chance to start to take away from the European posh performance market and really make their mark. Audis look out.

Have a little faith and patience. My guess (take it for what its worth) a poss B6T could produce at least 340hp. After all, the Legacy is the top of the line in the Subaru fam (minus the OB), so why not go for the gusto!

Oh and by the way, the Foresters XT and the Baja T's will be wishing they waited for the Legacy T's, cause we'll have far more power than they will.

Then you will laugh the hardest and last.

Later.
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Old 07-24-2003, 01:06 AM   #12
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm quietly waiting for the chance... and the money, to put one of the newer 2.5 turbos(Baja Forester... fingers crossed STI) into my Legacy.
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Old 07-24-2003, 08:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: good things come to those who wait...

Quote:
Originally posted by Gator GT
Have a little faith and patience. My guess (take it for what its worth) a poss B6T could produce at least 340hp. After all, the Legacy is the top of the line in the Subaru fam (minus the OB), so why not go for the gusto!
IMO many people are going to be in for sticker shock when some of these high powred Legacies start showing up. I don't see SOA selling a 340hp Legacy for much less than $40k. That starts to line it up with some other very impressive cars.

I'm looking for something a little less: give me a Legacy with the new 2.5t and I'll mod it myself. No need for sti's approval on mine.

Paul
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Old 07-24-2003, 02:19 PM   #14
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Tisk Tisk Ciper, some of us have had that dream for YEARS . Now that it's becoming reality, those of us that have been dreaming may have a hard time finding the funds to purchase this vehicle, myself included. It's better that they release it in the Baja first. It'll let 'em work out any bugs and maybe increase the sales of that HEINOUS vehicle. I'm just excited that we're actually going to be getting an amazing legacy.

-Brian
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Old 07-24-2003, 11:01 PM   #15
Gator GT
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Default Thank you for bringing the price up....

Thanks Paul for bringing that up (at least for me)

I mentioned previously that I was originally intending to save up for a RalliArt Evo Xtreme or higher.

The equivalent (from England) cost was around $40-45k, coming with 340+ hp.

I'm now waiting for the super Legacy and willing to trade my 98 GT (whatever that will be worth then) in towards it. I have patience and discipline not to spend too much money modding this one in order to have the Grand Puba.

Yes, I'm looking at eating Mac and Cheese for a while, but I'll be willing to slap down $42-48k for a B6T Legacy. All modded and ready to drive off the lot (bugs previously worked out by other Subaru models) with factory warranty. I'm good at fixing things, not creating awesome mods (turbo, body kits) so thats why I like the engineered packaged toy. I'd rather spend my money on the bigger toys in life. Just me. Plus, this thing will be a sleeper! I love sleepers!!

I don't know about the rest of you Leg lovers, but I'm willing to wait for the sweetness in a couple of years.

Later.
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Old 07-25-2003, 01:12 AM   #16
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Default

I assume this must have been kicked around already, but I don't see it...I read in car and driver that the B11S's twin turbo flat six thats being developed (380ish hp) is going to make an appearance in the new legacy! Now that would be cool...
Micum
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:48 PM   #17
ciper
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I wonder why the Legacy will be priced at $42-48k. Just comparing it between the Baja turbo, forester XT and the STI I see little or no cost increase for a Legacy. Do they just want to charge the maximum amount possible?

Why not introduce it at a lower price and easily win out the competition. If the Legacy was priced at 35k I could easily see many people who dont even know of the Subaru brand considering the purchase.
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Old 07-25-2003, 09:19 PM   #18
Snowphun
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I expect to see a 2.5t Legacy for $27k or so, and in that range I'll be interested. But for the fancy sti/prodrive/souped up limited version that some people want, I imagine that'll be big bucks. Like I said before: give me the sweet engine and a solid chassis for a good price, I'll mod it as I see fit.

Paul
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Old 07-25-2003, 09:38 PM   #19
Gator GT
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Default Uh oh.....

Alright sorry for the confusion.

I didn't mean for the price that I'd be willing to slap down for a poss B6T is actually going to be the range of cost.

I can't disagree with snowphun. But considering that the 2.5GT went for 23,000 back in 98; with inflation, new standard features that once might have been options and just general markups, I think the 2.5GT-T would rate higher than the current WRX STi at $30k.

I was aiming high (maybe for myself) so when the real sticker comes out, I'll think of it as no biggie if its above $35k, but below $45k.

Realistically speaking, with the STi at $30k, I think that the 2.5T Leg would come in at $35-40k. And a higher factory modded version, one that Paul will do without, around $40-45k.

I mean, look at the prices of H6 OBs. They aren't cheap. they come at a premium, but with good reason---engine. Slap in a T, and some other refinements, civilities (for the city folk) and you've got something a little more classy than the Rex STi.

ALTHOUGH, I do agree (with ciper) that Subaru could (and should for better profibility and consumer retention and attraction) value price it to compete with Audi (S4 & maybe S6; Hell no on the RS's) and maybe even low end Mercs and Bimmers (although the comparison isn't apples to apples anymore.)

Possible though.

Just tidbits for thought and fodder for the forums.

Keep it running guys and gals. Its fun to dream.

Later.
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Old 07-25-2003, 11:43 PM   #20
Snowphun
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Yep, pricing is the mystery. 2.5 GT's are now $25k, H6 outback's are $29k. Not sure how they'll position the car, but it should be possible to make one with less of the expensive sti doodads and keep the cost under $30k.

IMO SOA has a long way to go before they can compete with Audi, BMW, MB for the overall package. You and I may appreciate them as a great value, but most of America doesn't see them as highly.
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Old 07-26-2003, 01:42 AM   #21
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I'll agree that the pricing of it is the biggest mystery and I hope that they do not price it too far above what the core Subie enthusiasts which harkened for it's arrival are willing to pay for such a vehicle. Lets also not forget that much of the general american public is still concerned and enamered with the size and number of cylinders versus the actual performance of the engine, so pricing it above a similarly equipped H6 model would most likely not happen. Another granual of salt to swallow is that around a year or so ago when discussions started about it's possible price, I believe anotherb4 and/or shirokumo mentioned that in Japan, the cost of the B4 Legacy (2.0TT) was actually less than the cost of the Impreza STi and I even think less than the WRX. If that relationship holds true over here, the prices of the Turbo Legacy would probably fall in line with the prices of the Turbo Forestor and current GT sedan, probably starting in the 26-27k range...just my opinion though of course.

Also, while I agree with the Baja being the test mule for the newly designed Turbo engine it will help work out the bugs for when it arrives in the Legacy Turbo, I am just fearful that if there are numerous problems with it in the Baja, and it doesn't help the Baja sales, SOA might interpret that and not offer the turbo in the Legacy. I doubt that will ever happen though, afterall, the Forestor Turbo is out too..

Ben
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Old 07-26-2003, 06:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: Uh oh.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Gator GT
Realistically speaking, with the STi at $30k, I think that the 2.5T Leg would come in at $35-40k. And a higher factory modded version, one that Paul will do without, around $40-45k.
This illustrates the pricing confusion that still exists overseas (from us in Japan). The B4 base price is much cheaper than the STi base price, and yes, I'm talking the 276hp B4. It's roughly 4 grand cheaper than a base "standard" STi (about 1500? less than a totally stripped RA with steel 15" wheels and small brakes). So far, SOA has followed the Japanese pricing strategies, which would lead to the conclusion that the new Legacy GT-Turbo would be priced in the 27-28k range for base manual transmission sedans.

It's my professional opinion, and I'd almost say a statement, that the move from the anemic 2.5 NA to a 2.5 Turbo in the GT model doesn't mean the price will jump 5-10k for a GT model. That doesn't happen. It really, really doesn't. Have you ever seen a manufacturer release a new version of a car (1996 GT to all-new '97 GT, as an example) and then state they will raise the price 5k? It's incredibly realistic to call it a worst-case scenario for the price to jump by $1500 - that's quite a price jump as far as professional industry experts are concerned, and there would be quite a noise about that! More normal would be a price increase of $500 - $1000. Or a price decrease, which also happens.

An "STi" Legacy may have a much higher price, but I do doubt it would hit 40K in base form. It's more likely to be 34-35K, a price jump over a WRX STi, but one keeping in form with Subaru's usual policies.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 07-27-2003, 01:30 AM   #23
Gator GT
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Default In all honesty...

I like what I'm hearing. Not only will a turbo Legacy (4 or 6) be a better car (for me at least) than the Evo, it sounds like a better deal too!

AKSubie, I share your fear as well, but think that SOA and FHI are going to go forward and bring it over for a testing of the waters if you will and see how it does. IMHO, I think it'll get snatched right up!

Paul, I appreciate you chiming in. It recenters some moron like myself trying to make an educated stab at these things. I like what you are saying. Makes my wallet happy too.

Later.
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Old 08-05-2003, 12:11 AM   #24
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Well for your guys info New Zealand is one of the first countries outside Japan to get the BL/BP Legacy.

Current pricing is approx $US 35,000

Thats for the highest GT B pec model

18 inch alloys, better suspension etc
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